Well originally I was thinkin about becoming a biomedical engineer... now I'm thinkin med school... become a cardiologist... But I was just wondering how long it takes to graduate from med school (how many years total would you be in school before you can practice, including premed?) I saw a couple guys here just recently graduated but I couldn't find their email/user name. Thanks in advance.
How many years to graduate med school? Thinking about becoming a doc (maybe)
- Thread starter phatj
- Start date
Four years pre-med, four years med school, then anywhere from 3-7 years of residency. Residency length varies depending on what you specialize in.
There are some 'accelerated' programs available that outline a three year plan. The University of Michigan medical school has one, IIRC. A doctor I used to work with graduated from medical school in 3 years.
But your MSATs have to be off the charts and your undergrad degree must be firmly rooted in all the pre-med requisites (biology, A&P, chemistry, et al.).
But your MSATs have to be off the charts and your undergrad degree must be firmly rooted in all the pre-med requisites (biology, A&P, chemistry, et al.).
like he said, don't do it. Not now. The stars are not in position ...
seriously, it takes around 7-8 years to get out of the school. So, 4 years pre-med, 4 years med school, and then there's residency. Good thing is that you really consider yourself working once you're in residency, but the pay's not going to be good during that time.
Be a doctor if you really really really really want to.
I wouldn't mind going to school for 8 years... but about residency...
So I wouldn't actually start working in my field (with pay) until residency? I tried looking for info regarding this online but I mostly get "top med schools" stuff. I'm interested in cardiology, but If I can't actually start making money until im in my 30's... I dunno :/
So I wouldn't actually start working in my field (with pay) until residency? I tried looking for info regarding this online but I mostly get "top med schools" stuff. I'm interested in cardiology, but If I can't actually start making money until im in my 30's... I dunno :/
I never said I wanted to do it for money. In fact, I wanted to become a doctor for quite a while, but the only thing that turned me away is the time that I'd have to spend in school (which is why I considered biomedical engineering as an alternative, only 5-6 years for a master's). But whatever occupation someone chooses, I believe, money is important.
I just want to know when I'm actually going to start making money by working in the profession, as opposed to getting paid for landscaping and busing tables (which i'll be doing till I start aa medical career).
I just want to know when I'm actually going to start making money by working in the profession, as opposed to getting paid for landscaping and busing tables (which i'll be doing till I start aa medical career).
With rising malpractice insurance, student loans, and the 8+ years of lost income, means become a doctor is not such a great decision from a financial perspective. Obviously if you have a passion for medicine, (despite the abuses and corruption within the health care system), then the sacrifices are worthwhile.
let me clarify,
what I said was a general comment and wasn't directed at you. I know some people who are looking at med school just because of the money and job stability and that's what I think is stupid.
what I said was a general comment and wasn't directed at you. I know some people who are looking at med school just because of the money and job stability and that's what I think is stupid.
become a vet. I hear good things about that field. good income, less anal than dealing with people if you make a mistake..
The Sauce
Diamond Member
- Oct 31, 1999
- 4,741
- 34
- 91
Let me summarize my experience in being a doctor so far: 4 years college, 4 years med school, 5 years residency, 120 hour work-weeks, awake for 36 hours+, stress, $200K debt. And as if that's not bad enough, every day, with every person I deal with one thought: will I get sued today and lose my job? In retrospect I would not recommend it for anyone. It's a terrible life. Most people are just looking for a way to pay off their debt and get out nowadays.
i spent 4 years at Johns Hopkins - graduated Phi Beta Kappa
i spent 4 years Univ. of Minnesota Medical School - graduated Alpha Omega Alpha (same as PBK, but in medicine)
i spent 8 years Univ. of Minnesota General Surgery Residency
i spent 3 years Mayo Clinic - thoracic and cardiovascular surgery fellowship
19 years in training after high school - top grades, top programs
i'm extremely good at what i do...i've had a great career, i've made good money, i'm really proud of what i've accomplished..BUT
my current practice sucks.. and i would never do it again..
the joy is out of medicine. it's not about science, its not about the truth, its not about helping people, its not about doing your best,
its not job security anymore.
it's all about money, and it's cutthroat and vicious. doctors hate doctors, nurses hate doctors, doctors hate nurses, doctors hate HMO's, the public at large likes doctors, but hates paying for medical care (it should be free like the internet!)
the blood sucking lawyers have convinced everyone that they can smoke, get fat, get diabetes, not exercise, end up with a hopeless situation,
and if the doctor can't miraculously make them better..it's someone's fault (someone with malpractice insurance..like a doctor..like me).
i pay nearly $50,000 a year for malpractice insurance. i've been sued 4 times in 10 years..not one of these cases has had any merit, and these cases
never went anywhere (dismissed, withdrawn), never even got to court..just an accusation that is withdrawn later...
but my malpractice premiums have doubled..because the insurance company wants to make money.
actually, malpractice is a total joke.
the lawyers make the most money
the insurance companies NEED THE LAWYERS to sue doctors, or they won't have any business,
and the lawyers who defend doctors need other lawyers to file lawsuits against doctors so they will have business.
the medical malpractice "system" is a massive multibillion $ business which benefits insurance companies, and lawyers..
it does nothing to "improve" medical care, and it rarely benefits patients..
75% of malpractice cases in my state get dismissed right off the bat (means a judge has determined that there is NO WAY a jury would find the doctor guilty under ANY circumstances)
of those that go to trial only 1 in 4 goes in favor of the plaintiff...
so a MASSIVE, not small, amount of malpractice cases are completely bogus.
this is crazy! and it's only getting worse (heck lawyers are suing over Oreo cookies, french fries and hot coffee). we are living in an insane asylum courtesy of the trial lawyers of america!
my advice..do something you really like..because there is a price to pay for becoming a doctor, and the money now is crappy and getting worse.
your mentioning money several times i your post, and i can guarantee you that what ever amount of money you may eventually make in medicine..your not going to feel that it was worth it.
and i'm in a relatively GOOD mood right now....
i spent 4 years Univ. of Minnesota Medical School - graduated Alpha Omega Alpha (same as PBK, but in medicine)
i spent 8 years Univ. of Minnesota General Surgery Residency
i spent 3 years Mayo Clinic - thoracic and cardiovascular surgery fellowship
19 years in training after high school - top grades, top programs
i'm extremely good at what i do...i've had a great career, i've made good money, i'm really proud of what i've accomplished..BUT
my current practice sucks.. and i would never do it again..
the joy is out of medicine. it's not about science, its not about the truth, its not about helping people, its not about doing your best,
its not job security anymore.
it's all about money, and it's cutthroat and vicious. doctors hate doctors, nurses hate doctors, doctors hate nurses, doctors hate HMO's, the public at large likes doctors, but hates paying for medical care (it should be free like the internet!)
the blood sucking lawyers have convinced everyone that they can smoke, get fat, get diabetes, not exercise, end up with a hopeless situation,
and if the doctor can't miraculously make them better..it's someone's fault (someone with malpractice insurance..like a doctor..like me).
i pay nearly $50,000 a year for malpractice insurance. i've been sued 4 times in 10 years..not one of these cases has had any merit, and these cases
never went anywhere (dismissed, withdrawn), never even got to court..just an accusation that is withdrawn later...
but my malpractice premiums have doubled..because the insurance company wants to make money.
actually, malpractice is a total joke.
the lawyers make the most money
the insurance companies NEED THE LAWYERS to sue doctors, or they won't have any business,
and the lawyers who defend doctors need other lawyers to file lawsuits against doctors so they will have business.
the medical malpractice "system" is a massive multibillion $ business which benefits insurance companies, and lawyers..
it does nothing to "improve" medical care, and it rarely benefits patients..
75% of malpractice cases in my state get dismissed right off the bat (means a judge has determined that there is NO WAY a jury would find the doctor guilty under ANY circumstances)
of those that go to trial only 1 in 4 goes in favor of the plaintiff...
so a MASSIVE, not small, amount of malpractice cases are completely bogus.
this is crazy! and it's only getting worse (heck lawyers are suing over Oreo cookies, french fries and hot coffee). we are living in an insane asylum courtesy of the trial lawyers of america!
my advice..do something you really like..because there is a price to pay for becoming a doctor, and the money now is crappy and getting worse.
your mentioning money several times i your post, and i can guarantee you that what ever amount of money you may eventually make in medicine..your not going to feel that it was worth it.
and i'm in a relatively GOOD mood right now....
What I worry about, is what happens when all these Asians graduate and can't find jobs?
Sorry but I have to play Devil's advocate.
Sorry but I have to play Devil's advocate.
a friend of mine described the relationship between
medical malpractice lawyers and doctors as
"the last great buffalo hunt"
they're goning to hunt us right into extinction.
as far as income goes -
i pay more for malpractice insurance every year
i pay more for my office expenses every year
i get paid half as much for the same surgery as i did ten years ago.
the patient's i see are only getting older, and have worse problems
what other profession allows you to make less as time goes by and you gain experience and expertise! I thought it was supposed to be the other way around! oops, i was wrong.
medical malpractice lawyers and doctors as
"the last great buffalo hunt"
they're goning to hunt us right into extinction.
as far as income goes -
i pay more for malpractice insurance every year
i pay more for my office expenses every year
i get paid half as much for the same surgery as i did ten years ago.
the patient's i see are only getting older, and have worse problems
what other profession allows you to make less as time goes by and you gain experience and expertise! I thought it was supposed to be the other way around! oops, i was wrong.
I will be starting medical school at Michigan in a few months. Let me give you an update on some things that heartsurgeon mentioned. One thing is that there are now hour limits for all residencies. This limit is set at 80 hours a week, and more importantly, it WILL be enforced. That makes it a LITTLE better than before.
Umm, and basically, everything else heartsurgeon said is true. Sad, but true. There is growing competition between nurses and doctors as nurses attempt to expand their role in healthcare. Nurses are trying to be primary care providers, thus creating a turf war. This is probably what's causing all the animosity. As for malpractice insurance, in some states, people pay 200,000 (Nevada) a year, and I know other states like Pennsylvania have it really bad too.
Personally, I'm optimistic and I think we've seen the worst. Doctors are starting to organize and protest more, which is a good sign, in my opinion. The issue of tort reform is a fairly big deal these days, and this is a positive sign that doctors' complaints are being heard.
but yeah, don't do medicine unless you like being a doctor. money and job security are not good reasons, although one can make the argument that increased attractiveness to the female sex is a good reason.
Umm, and basically, everything else heartsurgeon said is true. Sad, but true. There is growing competition between nurses and doctors as nurses attempt to expand their role in healthcare. Nurses are trying to be primary care providers, thus creating a turf war. This is probably what's causing all the animosity. As for malpractice insurance, in some states, people pay 200,000 (Nevada) a year, and I know other states like Pennsylvania have it really bad too.
Personally, I'm optimistic and I think we've seen the worst. Doctors are starting to organize and protest more, which is a good sign, in my opinion. The issue of tort reform is a fairly big deal these days, and this is a positive sign that doctors' complaints are being heard.
but yeah, don't do medicine unless you like being a doctor. money and job security are not good reasons, although one can make the argument that increased attractiveness to the female sex is a good reason.
I had a conceited friend who wanted to be a Dr because he just thought it would bring praise to him. He would always tell me, "Don't you think my last name sounds fit for a Doctor? Dr. Liu".
Anyways, hope you really want to get into it. Another one of my good friend just finished college in two years (majored in biochemistry), and is finishing up his first year in medical school now (he was 20 when he entered medical school).
Anyways, hope you really want to get into it. Another one of my good friend just finished college in two years (majored in biochemistry), and is finishing up his first year in medical school now (he was 20 when he entered medical school).
I try not to think about what's waiting for me after I graduate college
OT but since there seems to be a few doctors posting, I need some help.
One of the classes I take is a anatomy class with a clinical component and one of our assignments is to review cases (the diagnosis and treatment is hidden from us) and make our own suggestions for a diagnostic and treatment and I can't figure this one out. Can anyone point me in the right direction?
10 year old female, sudden hemi-paralysis of left side, loss of feeling and strength in left arm and leg, complains of being tired.
No headache or fever but vomits, no apparent vision problems but slight left eye deviation.
Difficulty with speech. Difficulty walking (due to lack of strength).
Gymnast (off season). No head injuries involved.
Admitted Mar 18, given medication and symptoms cleared up immediately so discharged few days later. Now she is back with same symptoms but more sever.
Any opinions? I'd was thinking of either a tumor (unlikely) or a clot/stroke since raised intercranial pressure would explain a lot of things.
Suggesting a CT scan to look for clots, then MRI to look for tumors.
What kind of medications? Blood thinner, beta blockers?
OT but since there seems to be a few doctors posting, I need some help.
One of the classes I take is a anatomy class with a clinical component and one of our assignments is to review cases (the diagnosis and treatment is hidden from us) and make our own suggestions for a diagnostic and treatment and I can't figure this one out. Can anyone point me in the right direction?
10 year old female, sudden hemi-paralysis of left side, loss of feeling and strength in left arm and leg, complains of being tired.
No headache or fever but vomits, no apparent vision problems but slight left eye deviation.
Difficulty with speech. Difficulty walking (due to lack of strength).
Gymnast (off season). No head injuries involved.
Admitted Mar 18, given medication and symptoms cleared up immediately so discharged few days later. Now she is back with same symptoms but more sever.
Any opinions? I'd was thinking of either a tumor (unlikely) or a clot/stroke since raised intercranial pressure would explain a lot of things.
Suggesting a CT scan to look for clots, then MRI to look for tumors.
What kind of medications? Blood thinner, beta blockers?
heartsurgeon, is it common for general surg residency to be 8 years? i thought it was only 5. the longest i saw was neurosurg which was 7 years (2 of which were for research).
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