How many racist comments in the example?

[Exophase]

http://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2013/07/01/197644761/word-watch-on-crackers

That article is hardly elevated past conjecture.

 

[OutHouse]

So you think black people have a different perspective regarding the color of a dress compared to the rest of us humans?

of course, different cultures have different taste. especially women and dresses. what a black woman may find appealing a white or Hispanic woman would find hideous. there is nothing racist about that, it is just the way thing have been, are and will forever be.

 

[Blanky]

As a black person, I found some of the quotes racist and some weren't.

 

[dank69]

of course, different cultures have different taste. especially women and dresses. what a black woman may find appealing a white or Hispanic woman would find hideous. there is nothing racist about that, it is just the way thing have been, are and will forever be.

I see, so you think all black people think the same and all white people think the same and the two groups think differently, at the very least when it comes to fashion. Interesting.

 

[dank69]

Comment 34



Comment 56



Any logical person would take what you said, and understand that you are advocating not using the term. The people getting "away with it" should be shamed for using it. The point of shame is so they do not get away with it which is to try and stop them through non legal channels.

Any logical person would take what I said, and understand that I am advocating not taking every opportunity possible to label every black person behaving badly as a savage if they don't want to appear racist to everyone paying attention. The people that do that should be shamed. I even explicitly said using the term is fine, it's just when someone uses it over and over for a very specific purpose is when I will call them out. You have a problem with this correct interpretation of my words?

 

[OCNewbie]

I see, so you think all black people think the same and all white people think the same and the two groups think differently, at the very least when it comes to fashion. Interesting.

dank69, do you acknowledge there is such a thing as "black culture" (perhaps you could suggest a different label)? If so, if you wanted to get the input of a person that identifies themselves as being a part of that culture, how would you go about seeking out such a person?

 

[OCNewbie]

Any logical person would take what I said, and understand that I am advocating not taking every opportunity possible to label every black person behaving badly as a savage if they don't want to appear racist to everyone paying attention. The people that do that should be shamed. I even explicitly said using the term is fine, it's just when someone uses it over and over for a very specific purpose is when I will call them out. You have a problem with this correct interpretation of my words?

I think, in general, it is the behavior of those people in those situations that is labeled as "savage", not the people themselves. For example: "Those people are acting like savages", vs "They are savages". I could be wrong about its previous use, but that's how I would use the term (if/when I were to use it).

 

[werepossum]

That's a lot of words used to dodge a simple question and pretend I am the one misunderstanding you. You need to drop the "who is ready and willing to be insulted" part because it is flat out nonsense. The word ghetto can absolutely be used to insult a black person who is not "ready and willing to be insulted." If you can't acknowledge this simple thing I will be happy to provide an example, you know, if you really want to continue to play the stupid part.

I have zero doubt that you can supply a sentence which you imagine to be insulting to every black person, as well as summoning the courage to label every black person not insulted as an Uncle Tom.

As a black person, I found some of the quotes racist and some weren't.

Which did you find racist, and why? I'm not saying none were racist, I'm just interested in your opinion as a reasonable black person. I'm also interested in the context you ascribe to each statement. For instance, there is a world of difference in saying "You need to get out of the ghetto" because it's a miserable, dangerous place to live as part of encouraging the child to work hard in school and saying "You need to get out of the ghetto" because the child is engaging in speech or behavior you simply don't like such as listening to P. Diddy (or whatever is his name this week.) Yet the phrase could be either; presented bare, it has only the context we ascribe to it.

 

[Blanky]

Which did you find racist, and why? I'm not saying none were racist, I'm just interested in your opinion as a reasonable black person. I'm also interested in the context you ascribe to each statement. For instance, there is a world of difference in saying "You need to get out of the ghetto" because it's a miserable, dangerous place to live as part of encouraging the child to work hard in school and saying "You need to get out of the ghetto" because the child is engaging in speech or behavior you simply don't like such as listening to P. Diddy (or whatever is his name this week.) Yet the phrase could be either; presented bare, it has only the context we ascribe to it.

Just to be clear, I do identify as a black person now, though I was born to parents who identify as white and I also identified that way until just this past week.

Now, to your question, I was going to post examples of racist and non-racist, but actually many of the quotes are only racist in a very specific context, and I don't know the context the quote was said in. The one about WPI, I guess that's a college. If it was said to a black guy and nothing else know about him, that's fairly clear cut. But it's also possible that the person knows the one they were speaking to is just not cut out for WPI, irrespective of race.

Most of the comments, like lincoln, or black history are just arguably insensitive.

The truth of the matter is in reality that in one's actual public life, outside of the quasi-anonymity of a message forum, it's ultra stupid to discuss race at all because a minority of people go absolutely shit crazy over things that are not even racist, and it cannot always be easy to tell what that is. E.g. if you call a black person black maybe they find that offensive, but then other blacks find african american offensive, so what do you do? Not mention it? I.e. you don't see race because you're colorblind? Well, the first post of this thread shows us that's racist, too.

 

[werepossum]

Just to be clear, I do identify as a black person now, though I was born to parents who identify as white and I also identified that way until just this past week.

Now, to your question, I was going to post examples of racist and non-racist, but actually many of the quotes are only racist in a very specific context, and I don't know the context the quote was said in. The one about WPI, I guess that's a college. If it was said to a black guy and nothing else know about him, that's fairly clear cut. But it's also possible that the person knows the one they were speaking to is just not cut out for WPI, irrespective of race.

Most of the comments, like lincoln, or black history are just arguably insensitive.

The truth of the matter is in reality that in one's actual public life, outside of the quasi-anonymity of a message forum, it's ultra stupid to discuss race at all because a minority of people go absolutely shit crazy over things that are not even racist, and it cannot always be easy to tell what that is. E.g. if you call a black person black maybe they find that offensive, but then other blacks find african american offensive, so what do you do? Not mention it? I.e. you don't see race because you're colorblind? Well, the first post of this thread shows us that's racist, too.

Well said, and got me.

My own list is much the same. There are things that I suspect are racist and a couple that are almost certainly racist.

My own lily white evaluation:
"The people in Ferguson are acting like savages. It's such a shame." Not racist, but poorly written as while it clearly refers to the looters, it specifies 'the people in Ferguson', the majority of whom have never acted like savages. One could argue subconscious racism (i.e. identifying all the people in Ferguson as acting like savages because they are mostly black) but when one has fallen to arguing subconscious racism, one has lost one's point.

"Your people should be indebted to Abraham Lincoln. He freed the slaves!" Racist. "Indebted" implies being given something of value, and while freedom is certainly something of value it is something automatically due each person. Gratefulness from those who were freed or whose ancestors were freed, sure, but one cannot be indebted by being gifted something one possesses by nature.

"We would love to hear a black person's perspective on the black and blue or white and gold dress fiasco." Racist - it implies that (A) black people all have the same perspective and (B) that this perspective likely differs from that of "normal people".

"I don't know that someone like you should apply to WPI. I think you would do better at QCC." I can't make a determination because I don't know what are WPI and QCC (although I'm going to assume it's something like Worchester Polytechnical Institute and Quincy's Community College" and because I don't know if "someone like you" means "someone like you with your skin tone" or "someone like you who's too fucking lazy to strike at a snake and too stupid to know you should." Either way it's a stupid thing to say; the job of a teacher is to motivate students, and assuming the student really is too lazy to strike at a snake, a better course would be to discuss what can flow from attending a good college and how the student might become a person suitable for such an opportunity.

"You live in Great Brook Valley? You're brave!" Again, no context. I have no clue if Great Brook Valley is a ghetto dangerous for everyone, or some lily white redneck area supposedly dangerous for the black person being addressed, or an affluent majority black neighborhood judged unsuitable for the white person being addressed.

"I can't teach you guys black history. There's just no time to fit it into the curriculum." Could be racist, could be not racist. Certainly it's badly framed as black history IS part of American history and world history, and if the teacher is referencing some particular non-important events that someone else wants taught, he or she should be specific. Such things as slavery, Jim Crow, the civil rights movement, and Martin Luther King Jr. are very much black history but also very important parts of American history, so a teacher should be smarter than to make a bald statement like this.

"I think you will relate to this book. It's about kids who grew up in the ghetto and made a life for themselves." Not racist if the kids being addressed are also growing up in the ghetto, racist otherwise.

"There are tons . . ." Stupid and racist, or else really really really stupid and insensitive.

"Why should we talk about our differences when we're all the same." Not necessarily racist, but not smart. We're not all the same, and some of us will be treated badly for no better reason than racism. That shouldn't be flippantly dismissed.

"I don't see race or color, I am colorblind." Not racist, but silly as even colorblind people see race and color and there can be concrete and often detrimental results from those perceptions. Again, not something to be flippantly dismissed.

 

[Blanky]

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Cutting the crust off of white bread or preferring white over wheat bread is pure racism in action.

 

[werepossum]

Cutting the crust off of white bread or preferring white over wheat bread is pure racism in action.

Eating, owning or even seeing white bread is pure racism in action.

 

[dank69]

dank69, do you acknowledge there is such a thing as "black culture" (perhaps you could suggest a different label)? If so, if you wanted to get the input of a person that identifies themselves as being a part of that culture, how would you go about seeking out such a person?

Yes, I acknowledge that there are things that people label as "black culture." It would still be racist to assume that a black person would have a different perspective about fashion than a white person. On top of that, the damn dress issue that line is referencing isn't even a fashion issue which makes that line all the more racist. That issue is about what color your eyes see when you see the image. The implication is that black people don't even see color the same as everyone else.

 

[dank69]

I think, in general, it is the behavior of those people in those situations that is labeled as "savage", not the people themselves. For example: "Those people are acting like savages", vs "They are savages". I could be wrong about its previous use, but that's how I would use the term (if/when I were to use it).

Again, it doesn't matter how you use it or what you mean when you do. The problem is that many people have used it as a substitute for the n-word and as such it is now becoming a code word for racists to express their racism while maintaining plausible deniability. The same is true of the word thug, and because it is common knowledge that these words can be used pejoratively, using them puts you at increased risk for someone to think you are using them pejoratively.

 

[dank69]

I have zero doubt that you can supply a sentence which you imagine to be insulting to every black person, as well as summoning the courage to label every black person not insulted as an Uncle Tom.


...

Nice straw man. I'll tell you what, since you want to remain in full retard mode, I'll just put out a simple example for you.

Black guy walks into a suburban bar wearing normal business-casual attire and orders a beer. One of the three white guys next to him looks at him and says loudly to his other two friends "I didn't know this bar was in the ghetto."

 

[FuzzyBee]

dank69, is there a list somewhere of words that I shouldn't use because they are "racist"?

 

[dank69]

dank69, is there a list somewhere of words that I shouldn't use because they are "racist"?

Nope. You'll have to use your judgment, which I'm guessing isn't going to be adequate. You'll just have to learn from your mistakes.

 

[FuzzyBee]

Nope. You'll have to use your judgment, which I'm guessing isn't going to be adequate. You'll just have to learn from your mistakes.

That's quite a racist thing of you to assume.

 

[OCNewbie]

It would still be racist to assume that a black person would have a different perspective about fashion than a white person.

Is holding a racist view and stereotyping one in the same to you? I would call that stereotyping, not racism. If this is "racism", I don't find it to be harmful. What looks good on black skin (as far as fashion goes) doesn't necessarily look good on white skin. Just the same as what looks good on pale skin, doesn't necessarily look good on a Caucasian with a more olive complexion or a dark tan. What about make-up, or hair-care products? That would be part of fashion, and those with black skin and black hair would likely need to use different products.

Another example: when a black comedian gets on stage and puts on a "white" persona and talks with a very stiff voice, or higher voice. Is that racism or stereotyping? I would call it stereotyping:

Example - https://vine.co/v/O5uD7d5hjV0 (not the best example, but it was quick to find).

On top of that, the damn dress issue that line is referencing isn't even a fashion issue which makes that line all the more racist. That issue is about what color your eyes see when you see the image. The implication is that black people don't even see color the same as everyone else.

I agree here, that that example wasn't really about fashion. I don't think it's productive to lump this into the same pile as harmful racism though. This is just simple ignorance, at worst.

Yes, I acknowledge that there are things that people label as "black culture."

Edit: You kind of skirted around my question. Are you saying that black culture (especially black American culture) is specifically NOT a thing? Is the label inappropriate? What do you think is a more appropriate label for it, or do you deny it exists at all?

 

[dank69]

Is holding a racist view and stereotyping one in the same to you? I would call that stereotyping, not racism. If this is "racism", I don't find it to be harmful. What looks good on black skin (as far as fashion goes) doesn't necessarily look good on white skin. Just the same as what looks good on pale skin, doesn't necessarily look good on a Caucasian with a more olive complexion or a dark tan. What about make-up, or hair-care products? That would be part of fashion, and those with black skin and black hair would likely need to use different products.

Another example: when a black comedian gets on stage and puts on a "white" persona and talks with a very stiff voice, or higher voice. Is that racism or stereotyping? I would call it stereotyping:

Example - https://vine.co/v/O5uD7d5hjV0 (not the best example, but it was quick to find).

Sorry to shatter your world but racial stereotyping is the definition of racism, even if there is no malice.

I agree here, that that example wasn't really about fashion. I don't think it's productive to lump this into the same pile as harmful racism though. This is just simple ignorance, at worst.



Edit: You kind of skirted around my question. Are you saying that black culture (especially black American culture) is specifically NOT a thing? Is the label inappropriate? What do you think is a more appropriate label for it, or do you deny it exists at all?

I skirted the question because some things that people classify as part of black culture may not necessarily be so. I don't really know how you can define black culture anyway as black people come from a huge variety of backgrounds. Turn it on yourself, can your culture be defined by the color of your skin? If you are white, what is white culture? Irish culture is a bit different than the culture of Italians. If you are Asian, same thing. Is Japanese culture the same as Chinese? Korean? Indian?

Just discussing it now it seems to me that the idea of black culture is a pretty racist construct.

 

[Exophase]

Nope. You'll have to use your judgment, which I'm guessing isn't going to be adequate. You'll just have to learn from your mistakes.

This thread is literally about a list of phrases you shouldn't use because they're racist.

 

[dank69]

This thread is literally about a list of phrases you shouldn't use because they're racist.

This thread is literally about a list of phrases teachers at this school shouldn't use because they're racist.

 

[Exophase]

Just discussing it now it seems to me that the idea of black culture is a pretty racist construct.

So when Rachel Dolezal's Actually Black brother said that culturally she was black was he supporting a pretty racist construct?

This thread is literally about a list of phrases teachers at this school shouldn't use because they're racist.

Okay, so there's a list of racist phrases that is somehow only relevant to teachers at this school. Got it

 

[dank69]

So when Rachel Dolezal's Actually Black brother said that culturally she was black was he supporting a pretty racist construct?

Seems to fit the definition of racial stereotyping, so yes. You have to understand that if we follow the technical definition of racism, then not all racism is malicious. You have a source for that quote by the way?

Okay, so there's a list of racist phrases that is somehow only relevant to teachers at this school. Got it

Are you saying this school administration's list is somehow applicable to you or me?