How many of you have some type of minor misdemeanor offense, or know of someone ?

Oldgamer

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
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I know this is a pretty personal question, but I ask because I read in several articles that close to 40% of the US population has some type of misdemeanor offense. I find that really alarming. It just proves how we have gone nuts in this country at charging people left and right for minor things.

I talked to a friend of mine who manages very large sky scraper buildings in New York, who said his management company will not hire anyone with any type of misdemeanor offense. I was a bit perplexed by this because I have heard so many times that misdemeanor offenses are not something most employers worry to much about unless it is something theft related, or violence related.

I also came across this article: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...jor_consequences_for_the_people_charged_.html

Which states:

Yesterday, people across America pleaded guilty to crimes they didn’t commit. This isn’t something new or extraordinary. Every year, the American criminal system punishes thousands of people who are not guilty. These routine wrongful convictions never make it into headlines because they are misdemeanors, petty offenses like trespassing, disorderly conduct, or loitering. Minor offenses are largely ignored because we are usually focused on the felonies—the rapes, murders, drug crimes, and robberies. But felonies are actually exceptional. Approximately 1 million felony convictions are entered every year; more than 10 million misdemeanor cases are filed in the same time. In most states, misdemeanor dockets are four or five times the size of felony dockets. If you ever enter the American criminal justice system, odds are it will be for a misdemeanor. They may be seen as small-time offenses, but collectively how we process misdemeanors represents an immense and influential public institution. Something so powerful deserves far deeper scrutiny.

Because petty offenses are considered second-class citizens, data about them are sparse. Some states like California don’t even bother to count their misdemeanor convictions at all. One of the few reports on the phenomenon, published by the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers, concludes that the massive misdemeanor apparatus is shockingly informal, overcrowded, and sloppy. Petty offenders are routinely denied counsel even when they are constitutionally entitled to a lawyer. If counsel is appointed, public defenders carry so many cases—some literally have thousands—that they can devote only minutes to each one.


The misdemeanor machine has inspired a slew of epithets: “meet ‘em and plead ‘em lawyering,” “assembly line justice,” “cattle herding,” and “McJustice.” They reflect the reality that once people charged with misdemeanors get to court, they are pressured by judges, prosecutors, and their own lawyers into pleading guilty, often without knowledge of their rights or the nature of the charges against them. Bail makes it worse. Around 80 percent of defendants who have bail set cannot afford to pay it. Innocent defendants commonly plead guilty just to get out of jail. In this way, millions of Americans are punished without due process and learn the cynical lesson that, at least when it comes to minor offenses, law and evidence aren’t all that important.

Of course, there’s an argument that minor crimes may not actually matter that much. Guilty pleas typically result in a fine or probation, not prison. Given the deplorable lack of resources systemwide, perhaps minor crimes should indeed be handled in the quickest, cheapest way without counsel or a whole lot of due process. Indeed, petty offenders may well get out of jail sooner if they plead guilty. Moreover, it is widely assumed that these millions of defendants are actually guilty, so rushing them through the system probably won’t result in much of a miscarriage of justice. Maybe there are good reasons to take the quick-and-dirty approach.

Nevertheless, we shouldn’t write off misdemeanors. The repercussions of a petty conviction can be anything but minor. These offenses are increasingly punished with hefty fines that low-income defendants cannot pay. A conviction of any kind can ruin a person’s job prospects. A petty conviction can affect eligibility for professional licenses, child custody, food stamps, student loans, and health care or lead to deportation. In many cities, a misdemeanor makes you ineligible for public housing.
Even though those charged often avoid formal jail sentences, many spend a significant amount of time incarcerated waiting for their cases to be resolved. The average jailed arrestee can expect to spend between one and two months behind bars before his case is resolved. According to a 2004 American Bar Association Report, one Georgia defendant arrested for loitering spent 13 months in jail before seeing a lawyer, a judge, or being formally charged. And because jails are rife with rape, violence, and disease, those months can be as dangerous and unpleasant as any prison. In Florida, for example, Dorothy Palinchik was jailed for stealing a $9 Philly cheesesteak sandwich. Within days, the 42-year-old waitress contracted a staph infection and pneumonia, which sent her into a fatal coma.
Finally, many of those convicted may actually be innocent. Especially for large classes of urban policing offenses, such as loitering, trespassing, and disorderly conduct, convictions can easily occur without any evidence that the defendant actually committed a crime. To understand why, we need to go back to the beginning of the misdemeanor process: the initial arrest. Arrests require probable cause; there must be enough evidence to make it likely that the defendant actually “did it.” But police routinely arrest urban residents—particularly young black men—for other reasons, like clearing a street corner or establishing a police presence in a high-crime neighborhood.
For example, as former Baltimore cop and now-sociology professor Peter Moskos describes in his book Cop in the Hood, Baltimore police warn people to move on and arrest them for loitering when they don’t. The problem is that the crime of loitering is defined as “interfering, impeding, or hindering the free passage of pedestrian or vehicular traffic after receiving a warning.” A person who merely fails to move when ordered to move by a police officer is not actually guilty, but thousands of arrests occur in Baltimore on this basis every year. The same is reportedly true in New York.

Once police arrest someone, it is up to prosecutors to decide whether or not to charge the person with a crime. The system depends heavily on prosecutors to decline cases that lack evidence. But prosecutors often fail to screen misdemeanors precisely because they are seen as insignificant, and instead charge all petty arrestees on whatever basis the police arrested them. Studies in Iowa, New York, and North Carolina reveal that prosecutors declined only 3 or 4 percent of petty offenses. In jurisdictions like these, 96 percent of arrests convert automatically into criminal charges.

Once charged, misdemeanor suspects have little choice but to plead guilty. As the NACDL study revealed, many of these suspects will not get lawyers, and courts rush cases through in order to clear crowded dockets.

Jailed defendants may plead just to go home. As a result, a person arrested for a so-called urban disorder offense is likely to get charged with it and to plead guilty to it, even if there was no real evidence in the first place.
 
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Oldgamer

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
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I changed the title in case you don't feel comfortable giving that type of personal information, so you can just say you know of someone.
 

Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
13,306
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I find 40% hardto believe but man the criminal justice system in this country needs work.
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
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Well, I have never been arrested but have been "detained/stopped for further questions" more than a few times. As a matter of fact, I was detained for a while at LAX just recently by Border Patrol Police.
 
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BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
65,405
13,715
146
Misdemeanor? Nope...other than a few minor traffic tickets.

Felonies? :whiste:

More than just a one or two... :oops:
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,774
8,876
136
Me? No. Members of my family? Sure.

Heck, one of my Uncles cannot possess a gun due to domestic violence.
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
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It used to be that "street justice" was physically administered by cops on the beat. Now it's administered by the police and prosecutors that can make bogus charges and run citizens through the gauntlet of the justice system costing them thousands or tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees having to fight the bogus charges or pleading to lesser charges unrelated to the what actually happened.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
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It used to be that "street justice" was physically administered by cops on the beat. Now it's administered by the police and prosecutors that can make bogus charges and run citizens through the gauntlet of the justice system costing them thousands or tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees having to fight the bogus charges or pleading to lesser charges unrelated to the what actually happened.
so do all police and prosecutors do this?
 

brandonb

Diamond Member
Oct 17, 2006
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Well seeing that police (or the state I should say) can get you to take mandatory treatment (in which they pocket large sums of cash) or other similar out of jail/fine penalties... It seems inevitable that this will become a new method for the state to tax you and generate revenue.

So, no suprise to me that 40% have a misdemeanor offense. In fact, I look at police as tax collectors these days.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
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The misdemeanor machine has inspired a slew of epithets: “meet ‘em and plead ‘em lawyering,” “assembly line justice,” “cattle herding,” and “McJustice.” They reflect the reality that once people charged with misdemeanors get to court, they are pressured by judges, prosecutors, and their own lawyers into pleading guilty, often without knowledge of their rights or the nature of the charges against them.

^^ That's the way it works around here. Looks like an assembly line where the county rakes in cash.

I also noticed everyone who plead innocent got convicted and got jail time. Plead guilty and you get a small fine and go home.

Fern
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,774
8,876
136
^^ That's the way it works around here. Looks like an assembly line where the county rakes in cash.

I also notice everyone who plead innocent got convicted and got jail time. Plead guilty and you get a small fine and go home.

Fern

That's an awfully scary dystopian world you described.
 

Onceler

Golden Member
Feb 28, 2008
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If you think that that is bad you should try getting a job after a felony. I got the felony expunged but the arrest record never goes away, I tried getting a job and had it until my arrest record came through it seems even if you are exonerated of the crime there is still the record of your arrest which can't be pulled.
It's one of the reasons that I moved back home with my dad.
 
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OverVolt

Lifer
Aug 31, 2002
14,278
89
91
40% is about right.

Even in middle-class suburbia the kids with problems were like shoplifting and joyriding and shit, about 20% of them.

In innercity gangland probably about 60% have drug misdemeanors.

Imagine how many are caught for underage drinking at parties that get out of control even among the middle/upper class?

etc.
 

lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
1
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Charged felony - shooting at an occupied dwelling - Dismissed
Charged Misdemeanor - Possession of a loaded firearm in my car - No contest, expunged later.

Long story
 

Geosurface

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2012
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I'll be 33 in a few months

Never had any sort of brush with the law, at all. Except a couple of parking tickets.
 

OverVolt

Lifer
Aug 31, 2002
14,278
89
91
Charged felony - shooting at an occupied dwelling - Dismissed
Charged Misdemeanor - Possession of a loaded firearm in my car - No contest, expunged later.

Long story

I didn't grow up in the boonies/countryside but I can imagine shit like this happens there.
 

MrColin

Platinum Member
May 21, 2003
2,403
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I chose to plead guilty to a minor misdemeaner I should have fought, based on the choice between lawyer fees + 450 hours of community service + community service fees or on the other hand I could just plead guilty and pay $90 in court costs and be done.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
I have a few (3 or 4) relatives that would fall into that category. I would guess a lot of this has to do with things like driving intoxicated or drug related problems. MJ is probably up there on a list of Misdemeaners. Some people like to get into bar fights and what not.

It is just like watching cop shows. Shure enough some red-neck comes out with no shirt after being drunk and some MJ and starts arguing with the police.

It is not because the police have nothing to do, it is because people have had a breakdown in their morale behaviour. If you run around after dark and go to bars all the time eventually you get into trouble. Why do most women get raped at night when they are alone or drunk? Stay out of bars.
 
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Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
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"Justice" is a great misnomer when applied to our system. It does not seek to discover the truth but to argue and obfuscate to win. The defense lawyer is paid to get his client off. The prosecutor to find one charged guilty. The best of the two wins, and justice is often poorly served. I don't know of any alternatives seriously put forward, but I find it hard to believe there are none, or at least significant reforms. They would probably cost time and money, and it's better to get it wrong than to pay to get it right. So it seems.
 
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