How Many Former British Ambassadors

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,892
10,713
147
To get the message accross?

More than 50 just tried:

"We the undersigned former British ambassadors, high commissioners, governors and senior international officials, including some who have long experience of the Middle East and others whose experience is elsewhere, have watched with deepening concern the policies which you have followed on the Arab-Israel problem and Iraq, in close co-operation with the United States."

Following the press conference in Washington at which you and President Bush restated these policies, we feel the time has come to make our anxieties public, in the hope that they will be addressed in Parliament and will lead to a fundamental reassessment.

The decision by the USA, the EU, Russia and the UN to launch a Road Map for the settlement of the Israel/Palestine conflict raised hopes that the major powers would at last make a determined and collective effort to resolve a problem which, more than any other, has for decades poisoned relations between the West and the Islamic and Arab worlds.

The legal and political principles on which such a settlement would be based were well established: President Clinton had grappled with the problem during his presidency; the ingredients needed for a settlement were well understood and informal agreements on several of them had already been achieved. But the hopes were ill-founded.

Nothing effective has been done either to move the negotiations forward or to curb the violence.

Britain and the other sponsors of the Road Map merely waited on American leadership, but waited in vain.

Worse was to come. After all those wasted months, the international community has now been confronted with the announcement by Ariel Sharon and President Bush of new policies which are one-sided and illegal and which will cost yet more Israeli and Palestinian blood.

Our dismay at this backward step is heightened by the fact that you yourself seem to have endorsed it, abandoning the principles which for nearly four decades have guided international efforts to restore peace in the Holy Land and which have been the basis for such successes as those efforts have produced.

This abandonment of principle comes at a time when rightly or wrongly we are portrayed throughout the Arab and Muslim world as partners in an illegal and brutal occupation in Iraq.

The conduct of the war in Iraq has made it clear that there was no effective plan for the post-Saddam settlement.

All those with experience of the area predicted that the occupation of Iraq by the Coalition forces would meet serious and stubborn resistance, as has proved to be the case.

To describe the resistance as led by terrorists, fanatics and foreigners is neither convincing nor helpful.

Policy must take account of the nature and history of Iraq, the most complex country in the region.

However much Iraqis may yearn for a democratic society, the belief that one could now be created by the Coalition is naive.

This is the view of virtually all independent specialists in the region, both in Britain and in America.


We are glad to note that you and the president have welcomed the proposals outlined by Lakhdar Brahimi.

We must be ready to provide what support he requests, and to give authority to the United Nations to work with the Iraqis themselves, including those who are now actively resisting the occupation, to clear up the mess.

The military actions of the Coalition forces must be guided by political objectives and by the requirements of the Iraq theatre itself, not by criteria remote from them.

It is not good enough to say that the use of force is a matter for local commanders.

Heavy weapons unsuited to the task in hand, inflammatory language, the current confrontations in Najaf and Falluja, all these have built up rather than isolated the opposition.

The Iraqis killed by coalition forces probably total between 10,000 and 15,000 (it is a disgrace that the coalition forces themselves appear to have no estimate), and the number killed in the last month in Falluja alone is apparently several hundred, including many civilians, men, women and children.

Phrases such as `We mourn each loss of life. We salute them, and their families for their bravery and their sacrifice,' apparently referring only to those who have died on the Coalition side, are not well judged to moderate the passions those killings arouse.

We share your view that the British Government has an interest in working as closely as possible with the United States on both these related issues, and in exerting real influence as a loyal ally.

We believe that the need for such influence is now a matter of the highest urgency.

If that is unacceptable or unwelcome there is no case for supporting policies which are doomed to failure.

Signatories: Brian Barder; Paul Bergne; John Birch; David Blatherwick; Graham Boyce; Julian Bullard; Juliet Campbell; Bryan Cartledge; Terence Clark; David Colvin; Francis Cornish; James Craig; Brian Crowe; Basil Eastwood; Stephen Egerton; William Fullerton; Dick Fyjis-Walker; Marrack Goulding; John Graham; Andrew Green; Vic Henderson; Peter Hinchcliffe; Brian Hitch; Archie Lamb and David Logan.

Christopher Long; Ivor Lucas; Ian McCluney; Maureen MacGlashan; Philip McLean; Christopher MacRae; Oliver Miles; Martin Morland; Keith Morris; Richard Muir; Alan Munro; Stephen Nash; Robin O'Neill; Andrew Palmer; Bill Quantrill; David Ratford; Tom Richardson; Andrew Stuart; David Tatham; Crispin Tickell; Derek Tonkin; Charles Treadwell; Hugh Tunnell; Jeremy Varcoe; Hooky Walker; Michael Weir and Alan White. "
 

kaizersose

Golden Member
May 15, 2003
1,196
0
76
you do realize that many of these people are now on the payrolls of arab governements as 'consultants'. not exactly independant voices of reason
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,892
10,713
147
Originally posted by: kaizersose
you do realize that many of these people are now on the payrolls of arab governements as 'consultants'. not exactly independant voices of reason
Oh, really? Pray tell, enlighten us, name names, provide links, or STFU!
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
31,507
47,988
136
Yeah that would be swell if you could show us something more than opinion kaiser. I'm all ears.
 

Zephyr106

Banned
Jul 2, 2003
1,309
0
0
They're diplomats! Obviously liberal. And probably gay as well. They shouldn't be listened to because they're part of the global conspiracy.

Zephyr
 

Ozoned

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2004
5,578
0
0
I really thought that incestuous b!tching by people that aren't in power was just a USA thing, Obviously I was wrong..;)
 

fjord

Senior member
Feb 18, 2004
667
0
0
Not just in the UK--

 Published on Tuesday, May 4, 2004 by the Guardian/UK

Former Diplomats Attack Bush
White House accused of sacrificing credibility with Arab world in US protest that mirrors assault on Blair




by Suzanne Goldenberg in Washington

Fifty-three former US diplomats today accuse the White House of sacrificing America's credibility in the Arab world - and the safety of its diplomats and soldiers - because of the Bush administration's support for the Israeli prime minister, Ariel Sharon.

The strongly worded rebuke, which paid tribute to last week's broadside from more than 50 former British diplomats against the government's policy in Iraq, marked a rare public display of dissent for state department personnel.

Its central charge that the Bush administration is unfairly tilted towards Mr Sharon arrives at a time when Washington's strategy in the Middle East is in tatters. George Bush has invested heavily in Mr Sharon's proposal for an Israeli withdrawal from the Gaza Strip, and gone a step further by endorsing a continued Jewish settlement in the occupied West Bank.

The overwhelming rejection of the proposal by Likud voters on Sunday was seen in Washington yesterday as a direct snub to Mr Bush. But the White House reaffirmed its support for Mr Sharon.

Yesterday he said he would modify his disengagement plan but gave no details, while earlier members of his government said the setback was temporary, and the withdrawal from Gaza would go ahead. "There is no doubt disengagement is inevitable and unstoppable," the deputy prime minister, Ehud Olmert, said. "The alternative is more murder, terrorism and attacks without any wise answer for what 7,500 Jewish [settlers] are doing among 1.2 million Palestinians [in Gaza]."

Mr Sharon's troubles are due for further scrutiny at a meeting in New York today of the sponsors of the peace road map - the US, the EU, Russia and the United Nations. But there is no doubt the rebuff from Likud will be seen as an embarrassment to Washington, one that is further deepened by the critique from an assembly of US government personnel with decades of experience.

The last broadside from American diplomats was delivered during the Vietnam war era. It is particularly unusual for US government personnel to criticize policy on Israel.

Unlike the British version, which was scathing of Mr Blair's alliance with Washington in Iraq as well as Israel and the Palestinians, the American diplomats' critique was wholly focused on Middle East policy.

It said Washington had overthrown decades of US diplomatic tradition last month when Mr Bush endorsed a plan for Gaza with no Palestinian involvement. "By closing the door to negotiations with Palestinians and the possibility of a Palestinian state, you have proved that the US is not an even-handed peace partner. You have placed US diplomats, civilians and military doing their jobs overseas in an untenable and even dangerous position," the letter says.

It goes on to accuse the Bush administration of "unabashed support" for Israel's strategy of assassinating Palestinian leaders and military operatives, and urges Washington to change course. "A return to the time-honored American tradition of fairness will turn the present tide of ill will in Europe and the Middle East - even in Iraq," it adds.

The letter, which was initiated by a former ambassador to Qatar, Andrew Killgore, was endorsed mainly by those who had served for years in Arab countries. Supporters include the former ambassadors to India, Saudi Arabia, Syria and Egypt. The petition was also endorsed by two recent rebels against the Bush administration policy: John Brady Kiesling, who resigned last year in protest against the war, and Greg Thielmann, an intelligence analyst who accused Washington of distorting information on Iraqi weapons programs.

But their numbers do not include former administration officials who have been most closely associated with peacemaking efforts.

© Guardian Newspapers Limited 2004


The full text of a letter from some 50 retired US diplomats urging President Bush to reverse his Middle East policy.


Dear Mr President:

We former US diplomats applaud our 52 British colleagues who recently sent a letter to Prime Minister Tony Blair criticising his Middle East policy and calling on Britain to exert more influence over the United States.

As retired foreign service officers we care deeply about our nation's foreign policy and US credibility in the world.

We also are deeply concerned by your April 14 endorsement of Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's unilateral plan to reject the rights of three million Palestinians, to deny the right of refugees to return to their homeland, and to retain five large illegal settlement blocs in the occupied West Bank.

This plan defies UN Security Council resolutions calling for Israel's return of occupied territories.

It ignores international laws declaring Israeli settlements illegal.

It flouts UN Resolution 194, passed in 1948, which affirms the right of refugees to return to their homes or receive compensation for the loss of their property and assistance in resettling in a host country should they choose to do so.

And it undermines the Road Map for peace drawn up by the Quartet, including the US. Finally, it reverses longstanding American policy in the Middle East.

Your meeting with Sharon followed a series of intensive negotiating sessions between Israelis and Americans, but which left out Palestinians.

In fact, you and Prime Minister Sharon consistently have excluded Palestinians from peace negotiations.

Former Palestinian Information Minister Yasser Abed Rabbo voiced the overwhelming reaction of people around the world when he said: "I believe President Bush declared the death of the peace process today".

By closing the door to negotiations with Palestinians and the possibility of a Palestinian state, you have proved that the United States is not an even-handed peace partner.

You have placed US diplomats, civilians and military doing their jobs overseas in an untenable and even dangerous position.

Your unqualified support of Sharon's extra-judicial assassinations, Israel's Berlin Wall-like barrier, its harsh military measures in occupied territories, and now your endorsement of Sharon's unilateral plan are costing our country its credibility, prestige and friends.

It is not too late to reassert American principles of justice and fairness in our relations with all the peoples of the Middle East.

Support negotiations between Palestinians and Israelis, with the United States serving as a truly honest broker.

A return to the time-honored American tradition of fairness will reverse the present tide of ill will in Europe and the Middle East - even in Iraq.

Because the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is at the core of the problems in the Middle East, the entire region - and the world - will rejoice along with Israelis and Palestinians when the killing stops and peace is attained.

Signatories include

Andrew I Killgore, Ambassador to Qatar, 1977-1980
Richard H Curtiss, former chief inspector, US Information Agency
Colbert C Held, Retired FSO and author
Thomas J Carolan, Counsel General Istanbul, '88-'92
C Edward Bernier, Counselor of Embassy, Information and Culture, Islamabad, Pakistan
Donald A Kruse, American Consul in Jerusalem
Ambassador Edward L Peck, former Chief of Mission in Iraq and Mauritania
John Powell, Admin Counselor in Beirut, '75-'76
John Gunther Dean, last position held US Ambassador to India
Greg Thielmann, Director, Office for Strategic Proliferation and Military Affairs, Bureau of Intelligence and Research
James Akins, Ambassador to Saudi Arabia
Talcott Seeyle, Ambassador to Syria
Eugene Bird, Counselor of Embassy in Saudi Arabia
Richard H Nolte, Ambassador to Egypt
Ray Close, Chief of Station Jeddah, Saudi Arabia 1971-1979
Shirl McArthur, Commercial Attache, Bangkok
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,892
10,713
147
You know, fjord, I'm beginning to detect a trend here. ;)
 

Ozoned

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2004
5,578
0
0
Originally posted by: fjord
Not just in the UK--

 Published on Tuesday, May 4, 2004 by the Guardian/UK

Former Diplomats Attack Bush



What is it ,in the Brits past, that makes this group of people and their opinion worthy of consideration?
 

fjord

Senior member
Feb 18, 2004
667
0
0
Originally posted by: Ozoned
Originally posted by: fjord
Not just in the UK--

 Published on Tuesday, May 4, 2004 by the Guardian/UK

Former Diplomats Attack Bush



What is it ,in the Brits past, that makes this group of people and their opinion worthy of consideration?

"Fifty-three former US diplomats..."

If I understand your meaning...The question should be:

What is it, in the yanks past, that makes this group of people and their opinion worthy of condideration?
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,892
10,713
147
Originally posted by: Ozoned
Originally posted by: fjord
Not just in the UK--

 Published on Tuesday, May 4, 2004 by the Guardian/UK

Former Diplomats Attack Bush



What is it ,in the Brits past, that makes this group of people and their opinion worthy of consideration?
Read the article, or at least fjord's post on it, those are 50 former high level American diplomats bitching out BushCo in his post. You gonna smear them, too?

Oh right, you already did. :roll:
 

burnedout

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
6,249
2
0
Originally posted by: kage69
Yeah that would be swell if you could show us something more than opinion kaiser. I'm all ears.

Diplomats failed to disclose their own Arab links

Some of the most prominent former diplomats who condemned Tony Blair's policies in the Middle East have business links with Arab governments, The Telegraph can reveal.

In a letter published last week, 52 former British diplomats condemned the invasion of Iraq and the Government's support for Israel.

The letter failed to disclose, however, that several of the key signatories, including Oliver Miles, the former British ambassador to Libya who instigated the letter, are paid by pro-Arab organisations.

Some of the others hold positions in companies seeking lucrative Middle East contracts, while others have unpaid positions with pro-Arab organisations.

[...]
 

Ozoned

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2004
5,578
0
0
Originally posted by: Ozoned
I really thought that incestuous b!tching by people that aren't in power was just a USA thing, Obviously I was wrong..;)


Guess I was right after all.;)
 

Ozoned

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2004
5,578
0
0
Originally posted by: fjord
Originally posted by: Ozoned
Originally posted by: fjord
Not just in the UK--

 Published on Tuesday, May 4, 2004 by the Guardian/UK

Former Diplomats Attack Bush



What is it ,in the Brits past, that makes this group of people and their opinion worthy of consideration?

"Fifty-three former US diplomats..."

If I understand your meaning...The question should be:

What is it, in the yanks past, that makes this group of people and their opinion worthy of condideration?


"50 former British diplomats"

Actually this is the group I was asking about...:)
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
31,507
47,988
136
Diplomats failed to disclose their own Arab links

Sounds like pure conjecture to me, 4 out the whole group as well... This smacks of damage control, but I agree there is the possibility of some bought influence.

I'd rather some of this scrutiny was leveled in Cheney's direction, if ever there existed a conflict of interest between company and state, there it is.
 

lozina

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
11,711
8
81
Originally posted by: kage69
Diplomats failed to disclose their own Arab links



I'd rather some of this scrutiny was leveled in Cheney's direction, if ever there existed a conflict of interest between company and state, there it is.


No, that's against the rules! Can only post about alleged corporate links to people who have opposed the Bush Administration, not a member of the administration, duh!