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How many Americans deaths will Trump be directly responsible for due to COVID-45

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How many American will die due COVID-19 due to Trumps incompetence/indiference?

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TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
23,367
2,640
136
Also, there are documented allergic reactions to all marketed vaccines. It's not unheard of to see some small subset of people have an allergic reaction. It is a severe disservice to medical communication to overly report these isolated incidents without also highlighting the dangers of actually contracting COVID-19 or the rarity of these incidents in the first place.

Plus, if one of these very rare cases of an allergic reaction arises, they can be easily dealt with using diphenhydramine (Benadryl) or epinephrine (eg, EpiPen).
Yup.
 

TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
23,367
2,640
136
yes, but a staggering number of physicians don't keep up with current research in their field. Many of them just never went through the basic science phase of their education and training, and sorta went straight to learning the clinical face part of their jobs.

That's not really a criticism, just reality of the gig. Plenty of physicians are into research, though, and do keep themselves informed. It's also all about networking--need to go to your general and field-based annual seminars to network and learn from people, and this is where all of the new research is discussed. If you don't go to these things, then you typically stay uninformed.
Absolutely this. For "straight clinical folk" (9-5ers seeing patients) it's incredibly common to not even be completely current on one's own area of specialty much less in more esoteric content like mRNA vaccine trials. It's just really really hard with the demands of the job itself and any goal of having a real life outside of work.

Similar to folks in any field I would imagine, but probably worse in medicine with the rapid pace with which things change.

I'm glad I had the opportunity to take an academic position which provides me some protected time to stay current and then some. I can see how easy it would be to get left behind.

Edit: and I'm not even up to the minute in everything all the time, it's just not possible.
 

conehead433

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 2002
5,181
221
106

sportage

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2008
9,157
1,301
126
I was wondering, was it a huge mistake to have shut down the economy and businesses back in the spring? Considering how things are today with the infection rates and the death rates now tripling, yet we are much more socially relaxed today than we were back then. Many restaurants have reopened, businesses back in operation, the public are back out shopping and spending yet it wasn’t nearly this bad Covid wise back when everything shut down last spring. Just an what-if, but had we remained more relaxed and less panicked and businesses had not shut down then maybe things would be better now. When you do the math, the rates of infection and deaths vs the overall population is still pretty low. And if we had worn the masks and limited the gatherings from day one instead of allowing Donald Trump to make this some political division then maybe we could have bypassed the economic crash altogether. Things are much worse now when it comes to Covid yet we are not anywhere’s near the crackdown compared to last spring. But in all honesty, we have learned a lot more now than we knew back then. We now know that chances of survival once infected are extremely good. And that masks really do work. And that limited gatherings also works quite well. So, now we know and this should better prepare us for the next pandemic. Heck... if we simply continued with the hand washing and mask wearing and social distancing after Covid is stomped out, we could go on to control basic seasonal illnesses like the common cold, the flu, all the nasties that hit during the fall and winter months. Imagine by simply wearing a mask from every October thru February or March we could avoid the common cold and the nasty flu for ever more. After the Covid, America should definitely impose an ongoing yearly mask mandate beginning every October to March then we’d all be a lot healthier and happier. So I wonder... do you think we could actually learn something from this pandemic? Or, will the ignorance of Donald Trump haunt us for years to come keeping us sick and stupid?
 

sportage

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2008
9,157
1,301
126
"Luke Letlow, a Republican who was elected to the House of Representatives this month to represent Louisiana’s Fifth Congressional District, died Tuesday evening of complications from Covid-19, a spokesman said. He was 41." He apparently had no underlying conditions which would have that would have increased his mortality chances.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/a-congressman-elect-from-louisiana-died-from-covid-19-complications/ar-BB1ckIz6?li=BBnb7Kz
Im kinda questioning what the facts really are with this. Apparently the guy came down with Covid and died shortly after. Seems a little fast and I’m wondering if there might be more to the story than we are being told. Just seems like one of those news stories where later on we discover the original version was full of inaccuracies. Just saying.
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
19,643
10,685
136
Im kinda questioning what the facts really are with this. Apparently the guy came down with Covid and died shortly after. Seems a little fast and I’m wondering if there might be more to the story than we are being told. Just seems like one of those news stories where later on we discover the original version was full of inaccuracies. Just saying.
Yes he was poisoned by Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer at the orders of the evil liberal cabal controlled by lizard people.
Seriously from your last two posts just step away from media and the internet for a bit and reset your brain:
 

pmv

Diamond Member
May 30, 2008
7,404
2,626
136
Things are going pretty badly here in the UK, also. The infection rates are increasing in leaps-and-bounds.

I blame Boris's government, and their confusing constant changing of messaging - "lock down" "open up" "lock down again" "open up again".

First they locked down the country - albeit too slow and too late. Then they not only opened things up again but spent money on pointless gimmicks like subsidizing meals in upmarket restaurants, to encourage people to go out and mix indoors more. Then they introduced this confusing localised 'tier' system. And now they are frantically introducing new, higher, tiers, with the Spinal Tap logic of "this one goes up to 5". It's "one-safer"
They are just confusing the public.

They shouldn't have reopened the schools, either. They are obviously spreading the infection. I read a bizarre US article comparing the US unfavourably to Europe, for _not_ reopening schools. It blamed the US teachers' unions. First time I've heard it claimed the US has stronger unions than Europe. But as far as I can see the US got it right - schools here are clearly leading to a greater spread of the virus.

There's also the fact that the NHS is coming close to being overwhelmed - and that I blame on decades of Tory underfunding and failure to provide enough medical staff. They even spent a fortune creating all those emergency 'Nightingale hospitals' at the start of the pandemic, only to later close them down and dismantle them again, because they didn't have enough staff to run them. Now hospitals are talking about putting tents outside as triage areas, and are having ambulances wait uselessly outside as there's no ICU space left.

The Trump administration is not the only one messing this up.
 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
35,612
9,225
136
Relatedly I like the idea of prioritizing on risk factors other than profession (healthcare mostly) and age but I really don't know if America is up to the task. How is some local pharmacist with a fridge full of vaccine going to know that one of my friends actually has a very serious heart condition that makes him eligible to be dosed in 1b per state guidance?
 

H T C

Senior member
Nov 7, 2018
309
180
86
Relatedly I like the idea of prioritizing on risk factors other than profession (healthcare mostly) and age but I really don't know if America is up to the task. How is some local pharmacist with a fridge full of vaccine going to know that one of my friends actually has a very serious heart condition that makes him eligible to be dosed in 1b per state guidance?
Portugal's vaccination campaign has begun and we have the following priorities (for some reason Google translate isn't working so i had to manually translate this, so please excuse any errors):

Phase 1

-- beginning late December 2020:

- Health professionals involved in patients care
- Armed forces professionals, security forces and critical services
- Professionals and residents in retirement homes and similar institutions
- Professionals and residents of the National Grid of Integrated Continued Care

-- beginning February 2021:

- People aged 50+ with @ least one of the following pathologies:
--- Heart failure
--- Coronary disease
--- Renal failure (Glomerular filtration rate < 60ml/min)
--- Chronic Respiratory Disease under ventilated support and / or long duration oxigenation

Phase 2

-- beginning April 2021:

- People aged 65+ that have yet to be vaccinated
- People between ages 50+ but under 65 with @ least one of the following pathologies:
--- Diabetes
--- Active malignant neoplasia
--- Renal failure (Glomerular filtration rate > 60+ml/min)
--- Kidney Failure
--- Hypertension
--- Obesity
--- Other pathologies with smaller prevalence that may be defined later, in light of scientific knowledge

Phase 3

-- start date AFTER phase 2 ends:

- All remaining eligible population that may have priority



It has been decided that people in important political positions will NOT jump ahead in the priority line: they will receive the vaccine as per the order above outlined: this includes our Prime Minister that, being aged 59, should be vaccinated no earlier than April 2021.

Thus far, 16.7K health care workers have been vaccinated since the vaccine began being administered 3 days ago.
 
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K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
35,612
9,225
136
^

Hopefully that is more organized than here.

TX just opened 1b with 65+ and a list of eligible conditions. Doesn't look like any providers are set up for this yet. Some independent pharmacies have waitlists you can sign up for but most have no info at all. Medical providers also seem to be in the dark about what policy will be. Just a huge mess in the making we saw coming for months but did nothing about.
 

uallas5

Senior member
Jun 3, 2005
926
560
136
View attachment 36592


Look at our big strong wartime president doing his usual thing: Blaming other people for his fucking up.
Remember during the campaign when Trump said he had a terrific plan for the vaccine distribution? Sorry but contracting out FedEx and UPS to drive trucks of vaccines to the different states and then have the states take over from there whilst giving no further guidance and almost no financial support was never a "plan".
 
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Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,193
632
126
^

Hopefully that is more organized than here.

TX just opened 1b with 65+ and a list of eligible conditions. Doesn't look like any providers are set up for this yet. Some independent pharmacies have waitlists you can sign up for but most have no info at all. Medical providers also seem to be in the dark about what policy will be. Just a huge mess in the making we saw coming for months but did nothing about.
The reason why Texas opened up 1b and others will likely follow is to allow for vaccines not to go wasted. Also to get things moving as most of the doses Texas received is still sitting on shelves and not being administered. Plus certain counties in Texas have already vaccinated all their 1a people.

Like with PPE this is what happens when there are 50 different plans for 50 different states. Without federal coordination the vaccine rollout will continue to be slow and delayed.
 
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K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
35,612
9,225
136
The reason why Texas opened up 1b and others will likely follow is to allow for vaccines not to go wasted. Also to get things moving as most of the doses Texas received is still sitting on shelves and not being administered. Plus certain counties in Texas have already vaccinated all their 1a people.

Like with PPE this is what happens when there are 50 different plans for 50 different states. Without federal coordination the vaccine rollout will continue to be slow and delayed.
Seems like we could have done better at modeling distribution to less resemble the PS5 rollout but that's were we are headed.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
70,710
20,070
136
I think prioritizing based on conditions is a mistake - way too easy to game the system and create confusion. It should just go:

1) health care workers
2) everyone else in decreasing age tiers. Like start with 75+, then 65+, etc. It’s easy to understand and hard to scam, and age is by far the greatest risk factor anyway.
 
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Reactions: Denly and hal2kilo
Dec 10, 2005
20,635
2,009
126
I think prioritizing based on conditions is a mistake - way too easy to game the system and create confusion. It should just go:

1) health care workers
2) everyone else in decreasing age tiers. Like start with 75+, then 65+, etc. It’s easy to understand and hard to scam, and age is by far the greatest risk factor anyway.
Yes, in terms of logistics, this is probably the best way. I'd add one more group above age tiers: people living in group settings (nursing homes, prisons, jails, group homes).

Now, if there were centralized records where it was easy to discern who had certain comorbidities, then sure, throw that into the mix. But since that doesn't exist, they should ideally try to keep it simple, since the other logistical hurdles are quite substantial.
 

Mai72

Lifer
Sep 12, 2012
10,403
1,067
126
Vaccines are rolling out much slower tha expected. I blame Trump for this.

WTF is he doing anyway? Ah.. playing golf.
 
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K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
35,612
9,225
136
I think many more vaccine actually have been administered but the reporting is all f'd up. All 11M-ish doses distributed? Probably not but potentially millions more than we see.

CDC tracker alone is more than 48 hours stale and those numbers are already up to 96 hours behind. Like testing data we aren't set up for this.
 

sactoking

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2007
6,753
1,484
136
Part of the problem is definitely ignorance/stupidity. I've received messages multiple times from the IHS I work for that the vaccination appointments are not being filled and interested employees can essentially walk right in.
 
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vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
60,997
4,537
126
My wife got hers a week ago. Her employer is able to do the Pfizer vaccine due to cold storage access. Her hospital has vaccinated around 4000 of it's employees. But they are sitting on about 10,000 doses because shipments and delivery have been all over the place. They are scared about using up on hand supplies and then being short at the 21 day second dose. Right now "warp speed" would take about 10 years to get all Americans vaccinated.
 
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K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
35,612
9,225
136
My wife got hers a week ago. Her employer is able to do the Pfizer vaccine due to cold storage access. Her hospital has vaccinated around 4000 of it's employees. But they are sitting on about 10,000 doses because shipments and delivery have been all over the place. They are scared about using up on hand supplies and then being short at the 21 day second dose. Right now "warp speed" would take about 10 years to get all Americans vaccinated.
I though the gov was holding 2nd doses back at Pfizer's warehouses?
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
60,997
4,537
126
I though the gov was holding 2nd doses back at Pfizer's warehouses?
That I don't know. I do know that my state (Oregon) has had it's numbers promised and delivered fluctuate all over the place.
 

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