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How many Americans deaths will Trump be directly responsible for due to COVID-45

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How many American will die due COVID-19 due to Trumps incompetence/indiference?

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TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
23,367
2,640
136
Well shit, that's all news to me. Everyone I know thinks the use of mRNA is brand new, first use, etc.
AKA, "no one" knows a damn thing about any of this. And that's an obvious health risk to the nation as it fuels anti-vax.
Honestly, prior to the covid vaccine I suspect much of this mRNA technology would have been news to more than a majority of physicians. This is fairly esoteric stuff.
 
Feb 4, 2009
28,304
8,837
136
Well shit, that's all news to me. Everyone I know thinks the use of mRNA is brand new, first use, etc.
AKA, "no one" knows a damn thing about any of this. And that's an obvious health risk to the nation as it fuels anti-vax.
Honestly, prior to the covid vaccine I suspect much of this mRNA technology would have been news to more than a majority of physicians. This is fairly esoteric stuff.


They’ve been working on vaccines with this and studying it since the late 80s/early 90s
This stuff has been studied pretty well.
 
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Ajay

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2001
7,864
2,950
136
They’ve been working on vaccines with this and studying it since the late 80s/early 90s
This stuff has been studied pretty well.
Couldn't have been in any practical sense - CRISPER and Cas9 (and other endonucleases) gene editing tools weren't available back then.
 

uclaLabrat

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2007
4,350
505
126
Couldn't have been in any practical sense - CRISPER and Cas9 (and other endonucleases) gene editing tools weren't available back then.
Do you need those techniques? Oligonucleotides have been made using chemical synthesis and are fairly trivial to get to 10-100 residues in length.

Not sure if RNA is able to undergo the same coupling reactions but I fail to see why they wouldnt.
 

Ajay

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2001
7,864
2,950
136
Do you need those techniques? Oligonucleotides have been made using chemical synthesis and are fairly trivial to get to 10-100 residues in length.

Not sure if RNA is able to undergo the same coupling reactions but I fail to see why they wouldn't.
Actually, no they wouldn't necessarily be needed. For some reason, I wandered off thinking about the need for CRISPR etc. to delete or parts of the coronvirus' RNA in adenoviruses to prevent human cells from actually replicating and releasing sars-cov-2. My bad. I'm an amateur with enough knowledge to be dangerous (my degree is in physics). The more I read the more I need to read. This is cool stuff, and, had I a chance to do it all over again, I would major in genetics.

I haven't dug very far into how Pfizer and Moderna create the spike glycoprotein RNA stand in the first place. I'm not sure how many nucleotides are even present in the spike protein RNA. Or the chemistry needed to create it (or, do they clip it out of the main virus' very large main strand and replicate it with some process like PCR or ...). I'm trying to find more info, but run into an insane amount of information that turns out not to be relevant. Anyway, looking at this representation below, it must be pretty long RNA strand that is used to create this ->



This is what I get for posting late at night because I have a migraine. Too many mistakes to bother correcting :rolleyes:. Sorry.
 
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MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
4,921
3,011
136
I've known about the vit D thing since we began this journey, however I did not realize the correlation with the color of our skin. Of course it makes sense if you put a little thought into it.

TLDR: If you are a black person, get on that vitamin D stat.

That is very informative.

I have been taking 5000 IU/day for months now. I started when Dr. Fauci said that he was taking Vitamin C and D daily.

We live just above the 35th parallel (35.6) and even in early November it was nice enough to sit on the deck and enjoy a beer on sunny afternoons, which we did.
 
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hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
15,898
4,019
136
I've known about the vit D thing since we began this journey, however I did not realize the correlation with the color of our skin. Of course it makes sense if you put a little thought into it.

TLDR: If you are a black person, get on that vitamin D stat.

Kept me off of SRIs for the last 20 years or so.
 
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pmv

Diamond Member
May 30, 2008
7,404
2,627
136
That is very informative.

I have been taking 5000 IU/day for months now. I started when Dr. Fauci said that he was taking Vitamin C and D daily.

We live just above the 35th parallel (35.6) and even in early November it was nice enough to sit on the deck and enjoy a beer on sunny afternoons, which we did.

Been taking vitamin D supplements for several years (albeit not rigorously every day), since repeated blood tests (by my GP, i.e. a real doctor) showed I barely had any at all (and that was directly after a summer spent largely outdoors).

I actually am unconvinced by the statements about how you get Vitamin D (i.e. that you only half an hour in the sun or something like that) because it didn't seem to work out like that for me. I have heard credible medical experts claiming that the sun just isn't bright enough at our latitude and we should take supplements.

I'm pretty sure I get more than enough Vitamin C from diet. I wouldn't bother with most supplements, but D definitely seems like an exception.
 
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Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
61,489
13,499
136
Any good multivitamin has at least 100% of the USRDA of vitamin D. They cover a lot of other territory as well.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
77,558
10,561
126
Any good multivitamin has at least 100% of the USRDA of vitamin D. They cover a lot of other territory as well.
Recommended Daily Amount of any vitamin is usually shit for most people.
The folks who came up with those numbers knew every human is different but there was pressure to have something recommended.

Most people today dont get enough sunlight especially in winter. If you get S.A.D or something similar you probably want to monitor your vitamin D intake. Maybe a dedicated pill. Or a multivitamin with 5 times the RDA.
 
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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
104,253
18,852
136
Just search Clinicaltrials.gov for mRNA and dig through. There are quite a few active human trials of mRNA technology for various viral vaccines as well as cancer immunotherapy.

I think there are cancer treatment trials dating back to the early 10's? I haven't looked in awhile.

The problem is this type of information/data is far removed from the mainstream so the vast vast majority of people think this is all new stuff.. it isn't. You're not going to find news outlets or easily digestible sources reporting on mid phase clinical trials.

Which is actually part of the reason the covid vaccine trials could proceed so quickly, we already had the foundation of the technology.
yup. A lot of this stuff happens at the main hospital at NIH, but it has only been on trial status for a very select patient population (generally terminal, after successive failed standard treatments), and within that population you still have to be a proper "match" for the treatment.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
104,253
18,852
136
Well shit, that's all news to me. Everyone I know thinks the use of mRNA is brand new, first use, etc.
AKA, "no one" knows a damn thing about any of this. And that's an obvious health risk to the nation as it fuels anti-vax.
It's the first FDA-approved use--general population. It has only ever been trial status, difficult to get into the studies, because it was not FDA approved. The public descriptions of this have always been "first approved use in humans," but I guess that can be easily confused with "first ever"
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
104,253
18,852
136
They’ve been working on vaccines with this and studying it since the late 80s/early 90s
This stuff has been studied pretty well.
yes, but a staggering number of physicians don't keep up with current research in their field. Many of them just never went through the basic science phase of their education and training, and sorta went straight to learning the clinical face part of their jobs.

That's not really a criticism, just reality of the gig. Plenty of physicians are into research, though, and do keep themselves informed. It's also all about networking--need to go to your general and field-based annual seminars to network and learn from people, and this is where all of the new research is discussed. If you don't go to these things, then you typically stay uninformed.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
104,253
18,852
136
Do you need those techniques? Oligonucleotides have been made using chemical synthesis and are fairly trivial to get to 10-100 residues in length.

Not sure if RNA is able to undergo the same coupling reactions but I fail to see why they wouldnt.
yeah, this has nothing to do with Cas-9/CRISPR. Today, I can order a ~50 residue siRNA, mRNA, insert-functional RNA group here, strand from Millipore-Sigma for a few hundred bucks.

Also, I'm not sure if they do it this way, but you can synthesize and/or isolate single stranded mRNAs from a provided DNA template super easy, and super cheap. That is cheap, standard stuff for decades now. ...but I don't think this works that way. I think the more expensive part of the production process with this vaccine design (ignoring all of the decades of research and cost going into ID'ing and designing the functional mRNA), is in formulating the fatty capsule buffering/delivery system for each individual mRNA strand in the vaccine.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
15,898
4,019
136
Been taking vitamin D supplements for several years (albeit not rigorously every day), since repeated blood tests (by my GP, i.e. a real doctor) showed I barely had any at all (and that was directly after a summer spent largely outdoors).

I actually am unconvinced by the statements about how you get Vitamin D (i.e. that you only half an hour in the sun or something like that) because it didn't seem to work out like that for me. I have heard credible medical experts claiming that the sun just isn't bright enough at our latitude and we should take supplements.

I'm pretty sure I get more than enough Vitamin C from diet. I wouldn't bother with most supplements, but D definitely seems like an exception.
When you live 47.5 degree North, you probably have the lights on this time of year, and it's just now 9 am.
 

you2

Diamond Member
Apr 2, 2002
4,899
271
126
Given what is known about this technology are the current alergic reactions expected ?
 

conehead433

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 2002
5,181
221
106
Recommended Daily Amount of any vitamin is usually shit for most people.
The folks who came up with those numbers knew every human is different but there was pressure to have something recommended.

Most people today dont get enough sunlight especially in winter. If you get S.A.D or something similar you probably want to monitor your vitamin D intake. Maybe a dedicated pill. Or a multivitamin with 5 times the RDA.
Please don't spread FUD. Vitamin D is not water soluble, so you just don't urinate out any excess. Taking too much can lead to toxic levels in the body. "Risks include developing kidney stones, confusion, vomiting, muscle weakness and increased calcification in the body," Your recommendation of someone taking these levels could end up causing them serious harm.
 
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hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
15,898
4,019
136
Please don't spread FUD. Vitamin D is not water soluble, so you just don't urinate out ant excess. Taking too much can lead to toxic levels in the body. "Risks include developing kidney stones, confusion, vomiting, muscle weakness and increased calcification in the body," Your recommendation of someone taking these levels could end up causing them serious harm.
I wouldn't push it past 2000 ui for a regular daily dose. 1000 is fine. If you're a roofer, do highway construction, live in more sunny climes, spend a lot of time on the golf course, you are probably doing fine.
 
Dec 10, 2005
20,635
2,010
126
Define current allergic reactions?

The vaccine is incredibly safe, most people will have minimal or no adverse effects.
Also, there are documented allergic reactions to all marketed vaccines. It's not unheard of to see some small subset of people have an allergic reaction. It is a severe disservice to medical communication to overly report these isolated incidents without also highlighting the dangers of actually contracting COVID-19 or the rarity of these incidents in the first place.

Plus, if one of these very rare cases of an allergic reaction arises, they can be easily dealt with using diphenhydramine (Benadryl) or epinephrine (eg, EpiPen).
 
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