• Guest, The rules for the P & N subforum have been updated to prohibit "ad hominem" or personal attacks against other posters. See the full details in the post "Politics and News Rules & Guidelines."

How many Americans deaths will Trump be directly responsible for due to COVID-45

Page 260 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

How many American will die due COVID-19 due to Trumps incompetence/indiference?

  • 0

  • 10

  • 100

  • 1,000

  • 10,000

  • 100,000

  • 1,000,000+


Results are only viewable after voting.

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
11,572
5,996
136
That is a good point, but keep in mind that many of those complications would NOT appear if they didn't get COVID.
The analogy that I use is someone getting in a car crash, but not dying at the scene. What will be the cause of death? trauma? internal hemorraging? stroke because of blood clots?
In the end, however, none of those things would take place if the accident didn't happen.
I think he knows that. He is saying that CDC is having trouble determining CoD from the death certificates because they usually list the complication rather than the disease as immediate CoD. And that the doctors who do this aren't being fraudulent. They are just using the standard procedure for what to list as CoD.
 

cscpianoman

Golden Member
Feb 10, 2005
1,008
83
91
I think he knows that. He is saying that CDC is having trouble determining CoD from the death certificates because they usually list the complication rather than the disease as immediate CoD. And that the doctors who do this aren't being fraudulent. They are just using the standard procedure for what to list as CoD.
Precisely. Did covid cause the death? Yes. It led to the series of events that caused the death. In this case respiratory failure caused by covid.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DarthKyrie

pmv

Diamond Member
May 30, 2008
6,639
2,035
136
Lastly, I believe that any physician that lies about cause of death or misleads the public should lose their license. Either it is intentional and they are violating their oath or they don't actually believe reality, which makes them grossly incompetent.
Why would any physician do such a thing anyway? (Except, maybe, there could be cases where they keep quiet about suicide because there's sometimes a bit of a stigma, in some cultures at least.)

I don't think that's an issue in the pandemic at all. Obviously there is going to be scope for subjectivity sometimes, deaths rarely have one single "cause". Hence those 'excess death' figures are what pandemic death rates get based on in the end.

I read somewhere a physician saying we _overestimate_ the death rate from flu. Because it's calculated from the excess death rates, and this article was saying the numerical factors used for that estimate are too large.
 
Last edited:

you2

Diamond Member
Apr 2, 2002
4,825
243
106
Cause their president suggest they should....

Why would any physician do such a thing anyway? (Except, maybe, there could be cases where they keep quiet about suicide because there's sometimes a bit of a stigma, in some cultures at least.)
 

you2

Diamond Member
Apr 2, 2002
4,825
243
106
The bigger issue was that a president administration would take the colour of a state into account as to how he should respond. It isn't the first time nor the worse he has done but think about the insanity of how the republicans are acting. Numerous times starting with the new tax bill in 2016 they have made decisions with the sole intention of 'sticking' it to the blue states.

 

MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
3,929
1,940
136
If a person dying of a terminal disease is being transported from the hospital to a hospice facility, but is killed en-route in a traffic accident, what cause of death should be put on the death certificate?
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
60,817
4,259
126
My own guess has been around 700k for US deaths through next summer/early fall. At the time I thought that was sort of a worst case. Well, looks like that's just our new reality.

Don't confuse freedom with "Too stupid, too proud, and too stubborn to take simple precautions". This is solidly an American disease. Both in practice and outcome.
 

SmCaudata

Senior member
Oct 8, 2006
451
423
136
Why would any physician do such a thing anyway? (Except, maybe, there could be cases where they keep quiet about suicide because there's sometimes a bit of a stigma, in some cultures at least.)

I don't think that's an issue in the pandemic at all. Obviously there is going to be scope for subjectivity sometimes, deaths rarely have one single "cause". Hence those 'excess death' figures are what pandemic death rates get based on in the end.

I read somewhere a physician saying we _overestimate_ the death rate from flu. Because it's calculated from the excess death rates, and this article was saying the numerical factors used for that estimate are too large.
Because people are biased. Why do doctors prescribe meds more when they have pens and clocks with the name on them? Why did the coroner for George Floyd say his COD was due to pre-existing conditions?

We are seeing huge numbers of deaths from pneumonia and dementia. Dementia itself doesn't really kill if you use your previous post. The underlying inciting event in these cases is COVID. Everyone knows it. You can be as concrete and literal as you want, but don't distort reality. If someone goes into respiratory failure due to COVID infection, COVID was the cause of the respiratory failure,, and therfore COD.

There are doctors that use their power to paint a narrative. Doctors aren't altruistic, flawless beings. I am one. I see it every day.

EDIT: This is why excess deaths is probably the best measure of death due to the disease. This is a lagging indicator, but likely give the closest approximation to actual impact.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ivwshane

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
60,743
12,689
136
My own guess has been around 700k for US deaths through next summer/early fall. At the time I thought that was sort of a worst case. Well, looks like that's just our new reality.

Don't confuse freedom with "Too stupid, too proud, and too stubborn to take simple precautions". This is solidly an American disease. Both in practice and outcome.
Meanwhile, the superspreader in chief stages covid parties all over the country, because of course he is. And he feels powerful, hopped up on steroids & God only knows what else-


It's a crime against America that only a deranged narcissist would even contemplate.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hal2kilo

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
11,572
5,996
136
If a person dying of a terminal disease is being transported from the hospital to a hospice facility, but is killed en-route in a traffic accident, what cause of death should be put on the death certificate?
As I understand it, the standard practice would be to identify CoD as MVA.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
12,977
2,509
126
If a person dying of a terminal disease is being transported from the hospital to a hospice facility, but is killed en-route in a traffic accident, what cause of death should be put on the death certificate?
Obviously the car accident. I've known people that lived in hospice for 4+ years.
 

pmv

Diamond Member
May 30, 2008
6,639
2,035
136
Because people are biased. Why do doctors prescribe meds more when they have pens and clocks with the name on them? Why did the coroner for George Floyd say his COD was due to pre-existing conditions?

We are seeing huge numbers of deaths from pneumonia and dementia. Dementia itself doesn't really kill if you use your previous post. The underlying inciting event in these cases is COVID. Everyone knows it. You can be as concrete and literal as you want, but don't distort reality. If someone goes into respiratory failure due to COVID infection, COVID was the cause of the respiratory failure,, and therfore COD.

There are doctors that use their power to paint a narrative. Doctors aren't altruistic, flawless beings. I am one. I see it every day.

EDIT: This is why excess deaths is probably the best measure of death due to the disease. This is a lagging indicator, but likely give the closest approximation to actual impact.
I agree with your last line (or edit) entirely. I've said as much myself several times.

I don't entirely see why there would be a consistent bias among doctors in either direction, though. And bias is one thing but you said 'lies' - lying is a strong accusation. I'm reluctant to believe doctors would outright _lie_ about cause of death, on any sort of large scale.

What I keep seeing are people claiming, sans evidence, that the bias is the other way - that doctors are blaming COVID when they shouldn't. I personally suspect, if anything, the death numbers are a bit higher than are reported. But, as you say, it will take an analysis of excess deaths to work out the truth. That is, I understand, what they do for flu (though also, as I said, I've seen it claimed that that figure is in turn overestimated).
 

MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
3,929
1,940
136

Grey_Beard

Golden Member
Sep 23, 2014
1,217
1,246
136
Fucking crazy eyes...
As well as crazy thoughts and stances that have no rhyme or reason based on other/past communication. Maybe the character was based on Rudy since he has been on this slide for a while now.
 

interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
7,192
1,931
136
For those who dont know, cause of death for statistical purposes is actually more challenging than just saying Covid of MI. I sign off on 1-2 death certificates per week and let me share my thought process.

People dont just die from covid, they die from the complications of covid. People dont just die from sepsis but the complications. People die from acite respiratory failure, hemmoragic shock or cardiac arrest to name a few.

Lets say a covid patient comes to the hospital and despite best care dies. The patient most likely died from acute respiratory failure secondary to sepsis due to covid19. You could substitute sepsis with viral pneumonia or acute interstitial lung disease. The point is covid doesnt just cause automatic death.

Lets say someone came in with a large laceration from a MVA and died of blood loss and incidentally was found covid positive. The patient died from hemorrhagic shock due to laceration of femoral artery due to motor vehicle accident. As part of the statistical process there is a drop down requesting the patients covid status at the time of death, but it is NOT the cause of death.

This is why the CDC is having a weird time figuring out death certificates. 6% said primary cause is COVID. That is incorrect, the patient died from complications of covid and the death certificate is intended to provide a "sequence of events" that led to their death.

No physician that i work with would lie regarding the cause of death. There is no point or incentive. It does nothing but confuse the subject.
Lots of people are convinced that the real number is less than 100k deaths because doctors are writing fake death certificates to get paid. It doesn't matter that you educate that no one gets money for how they fill out a death certificate. It's ridiculous.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DarthKyrie

ASK THE COMMUNITY