How long will it be before airlines start charging you to use the restroom?

[aphex]

Am I wrong to think this is the inevitable next step?

 

[DnetMHZ]

SSSSHHHHH!!!.. Don't give them any ideas!

 

[rivan]

Good idea. Brb, I need to shoot off an email.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Unlikely. It doesn't drive any behaviour that benefits them.

Charging for checked baggage reduces the number of checked bags (this is the real reason they are now charging for it), which results in lower weight and lower fuel costs. Same with charging for drinks. By charging for drinks, they know that most people on a flight will not buy a drink. This means that instead of having to carry drinks for 150 people, they need only perhaps drinks for 20 people, which reduces the amount of weight they have to carry (all those cans of pop are heavy). The actual reduction of pop is more than that since they have to have sufficient variety to accommodate passengers, so the real reduction may be more like carrying 40 cans instead of 300 (a reduction of 260 cans as opposed to only a reduction of 130 cans).

Current surcharges are really there to reduce weight, not to increase revenue directly. They will weigh passengers at the terminal before they start charging to use the bathroom.

ZV

 

[bunnyfubbles]

why do people go overboard and bring up this ridiculous notion/joke? its getting old...

seriously, think, if they start charging people to go to the bathroom, there will be the inevitable scenario of people pissing and shitting somewhere in defiance - its practically considered a right (at least in america) along with free tap water - which is still free on planes for obvious reasons, of course people only bring up the bathroom issue because it can actually be funny...

 

[polarmystery]

Originally posted by: bunnyfubbles
why do people go overboard and bring up this ridiculous notion/joke? its getting old...

seriously, think, if they start charging people to go to the bathroom, there will be the inevitable scenario of people pissing and shitting somewhere in defiance - its practically considered a right (at least in america) along with free tap water - which is still free on planes for obvious reasons, of course people only bring up the bathroom issue because it can actually be funny...

The only thing guaranteed is death and taxes.

 

[child of wonder]

I still find it hard to believe that with all the millions of people flying every day at several hundred dollars a person that the airlines are all losing their asses like they say.

 

[puffff]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Unlikely. It doesn't drive any behaviour that benefits them.

Charging for checked baggage reduces the number of checked bags (this is the real reason they are now charging for it), which results in lower weight and lower fuel costs. Same with charging for drinks. By charging for drinks, they know that most people on a flight will not buy a drink. This means that instead of having to carry drinks for 150 people, they need only perhaps drinks for 20 people, which reduces the amount of weight they have to carry (all those cans of pop are heavy). The actual reduction of pop is more than that since they have to have sufficient variety to accommodate passengers, so the real reduction may be more like carrying 40 cans instead of 300 (a reduction of 260 cans as opposed to only a reduction of 130 cans).

Current surcharges are really there to reduce weight, not to increase revenue directly. They will weigh passengers at the terminal before they start charging to use the bathroom.

ZV

If you knew you would be charged to use the bathroom, you'd be sure to go beforehand. The weight in feces and urine that you leave at the airport is what the airline saves.

 

[BoomerD]

Hell, next thing, they'll be selling that as a seat for the flight...then let YOU rent it out to other passengers...for a split in profits of course...
It wasn't to long ago some poor schmuck had to ride in the crapper because they overbooked the flight but didn't realize it until the plane was in the air...

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: child of wonder
I still find it hard to believe that with all the millions of people flying every day at several hundred dollars a person that the airlines are all losing their asses like they say.

It's $7.50/gallon for JetA at my home airport (SEA). An airplane typically achieves about 50 passenger miles per gallon of fuel. So, in my 2,600 mile flight, I personally use about 52 gallons of fuel. That's $390. My ticket cost $383.

Now, it's true that I fly on the lowest fare possible, but it seems likely that the airline is probably getting a bulk discount on the fuel. Even if we assume that the fuel is only costing the airline $6.00/gallon, that's still $312 in fuel costs alone per passenger. Leaving only $71 above that per passenger to cover the cost of aircraft maintenance, airport fees, flight crew salary, pilot salary, administrative costs for FAA filings... That can't leave much room for a profit.

ZV

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
It wasn't to long ago some poor schmuck had to ride in the crapper because they overbooked the flight but didn't realize it until the plane was in the air...

I can't see how that's possible. It would have required them to take off without all passengers seated. They won't even close the cabin door unless everyone is seated. Sounds like an urban legend to me. It's just far too improbable.

ZV

 

[krunchykrome]

Naturally, we have to complain about it because it means more money out of our pocket for things that were free before. But these companies, airlines included, must roll the costs down to the consumers in order to stay in business. Not to mention that they are publicly traded and have stakeholders to keep happy. Can we really blame them?

 

[Ronstang]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: child of wonder
I still find it hard to believe that with all the millions of people flying every day at several hundred dollars a person that the airlines are all losing their asses like they say.

It's $7.50/gallon for JetA at my home airport (SEA). An airplane typically achieves about 50 passenger miles per gallon of fuel. So, in my 2,600 mile flight, I personally use about 52 gallons of fuel. That's $390. My ticket cost $383.

Now, it's true that I fly on the lowest fare possible, but it seems likely that the airline is probably getting a bulk discount on the fuel. Even if we assume that the fuel is only costing the airline $6.00/gallon, that's still $312 in fuel costs alone per passenger. Leaving only $71 above that per passenger to cover the cost of aircraft maintenance, airport fees, flight crew salary, pilot salary, administrative costs for FAA filings... That can't leave much room for a profit.

ZV

You are mistaking RETAIL jet fuel prices at the pump for the average Joe with what the airlines actually pay for bulk jet fuel, which is about half or even less the number you are providing.

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: BoomerD
It wasn't to long ago some poor schmuck had to ride in the crapper because they overbooked the flight but didn't realize it until the plane was in the air...

I can't see how that's possible. It would have required them to take off without all passengers seated. They won't even close the cabin door unless everyone is seated. Sounds like an urban legend to me. It's just far too improbable.

ZV

No urban legend...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24585615/

 

[HardcoreRobot]

you can bring your own pillow and coke, but the portapotty won't fit under the seat in front of you

 

[AmpedSilence]

Originally posted by: HardcoreRobot
you can bring your own pillow and coke, but the portapotty won't fit under the seat in front of you

But this you still have to buy after the security checkpoint.

Hell, A month ago I took a flight from PHL and the guy made me throw away my shaving cream because it was not in a Ziploc Bag. It was under the limit, but not in a Ziploc bag. He was nice enough to give me the option to leave the line, scoure the airport for a bag and go through the line again. Then the item would have been fine, but since it wasn't in a ziploc bag it was not.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: child of wonder
I still find it hard to believe that with all the millions of people flying every day at several hundred dollars a person that the airlines are all losing their asses like they say.

It's $7.50/gallon for JetA at my home airport (SEA). An airplane typically achieves about 50 passenger miles per gallon of fuel. So, in my 2,600 mile flight, I personally use about 52 gallons of fuel. That's $390. My ticket cost $383.

Now, it's true that I fly on the lowest fare possible, but it seems likely that the airline is probably getting a bulk discount on the fuel. Even if we assume that the fuel is only costing the airline $6.00/gallon, that's still $312 in fuel costs alone per passenger. Leaving only $71 above that per passenger to cover the cost of aircraft maintenance, airport fees, flight crew salary, pilot salary, administrative costs for FAA filings... That can't leave much room for a profit.

ZV

You are mistaking RETAIL jet fuel prices at the pump for the average Joe with what the airlines actually pay for bulk jet fuel, which is about half or even less the number you are providing.

If you figure 3 Attendants @ 40K each + 2 Pilots @ 90K (numbers may be off but stay with me) that is $300K in Salary alone. Benefits are 30% - total personal cost in the air is $400K/yr.

2 flights /day = 10 / week * 40 weeks per year = 400 flights.
Salary cost then for the crew are another $1000 per flight.
Ground support costs are at least the same as the crew.

Plus toss in the cost of the aircraft (737 is $60m/new) - they can get 500 hops per year.
20 year lifespan = 3m/yr = 6K/flight

 

[skace]

I've never used a bathroom on an airplane before.

 

[Mermaidman]

Originally posted by: bunnyfubbles
why do people go overboard and bring up this ridiculous notion/joke? its getting old...

+1

 

[child of wonder]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: child of wonder
I still find it hard to believe that with all the millions of people flying every day at several hundred dollars a person that the airlines are all losing their asses like they say.

It's $7.50/gallon for JetA at my home airport (SEA). An airplane typically achieves about 50 passenger miles per gallon of fuel. So, in my 2,600 mile flight, I personally use about 52 gallons of fuel. That's $390. My ticket cost $383.

Now, it's true that I fly on the lowest fare possible, but it seems likely that the airline is probably getting a bulk discount on the fuel. Even if we assume that the fuel is only costing the airline $6.00/gallon, that's still $312 in fuel costs alone per passenger. Leaving only $71 above that per passenger to cover the cost of aircraft maintenance, airport fees, flight crew salary, pilot salary, administrative costs for FAA filings... That can't leave much room for a profit.

ZV

You are mistaking RETAIL jet fuel prices at the pump for the average Joe with what the airlines actually pay for bulk jet fuel, which is about half or even less the number you are providing.

If you figure 3 Attendants @ 40K each + 2 Pilots @ 90K (numbers may be off but stay with me) that is $300K in Salary alone. Benefits are 30% - total personal cost in the air is $400K/yr.

2 flights /day = 10 / week * 40 weeks per year = 400 flights.
Salary cost then for the crew are another $1000 per flight.
Ground support costs are at least the same as the crew.

Plus toss in the cost of the aircraft (737 is $60m/new) - they can get 500 hops per year.
20 year lifespan = 3m/yr = 6K/flight

But the airlines have been filing for bankruptcy for the last 10 years long before fuel prices skyrocketed.

 

[Ronstang]

Originally posted by: child of wonder
But the airlines have been filing for bankruptcy for the last 10 years long before fuel prices skyrocketed.

That is because of all the cutthroat competition driving fares down to unsustainable levels. The low cost airlines depressed the fares so much that the big carriers didn't have much choice but to follow. When one airline would reduce fares the others would follow, and so on and so on. The result is lack of profitability. The management has also been sorely lacking in the industry for a long time. I love how they drove down fares to levels that should bankrupt a company and then expect the government to bail them out of their stupid decisions. Don't worry, there won't be many airlines left in a few years and the fares will probably be double what they are today. Air travel was never intended for the average Joe anyway.

 

[child of wonder]

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: child of wonder
But the airlines have been filing for bankruptcy for the last 10 years long before fuel prices skyrocketed.

That is because of all the cutthroat competition driving fares down to unsustainable levels. The low cost airlines depressed the fares so much that the big carriers didn't have much choice but to follow. When one airline would reduce fares the others would follow, and so on and so on. The result is lack of profitability. The management has also been sorely lacking in the industry for a long time. I love how they drove down fares to levels that should bankrupt a company and then expect the government to bail them out of their stupid decisions. Don't worry, there won't be many airlines left in a few years and the fares will probably be double what they are today. Air travel was never intended for the average Joe anyway.

True.

We could see a resurgence in trains or a national initiative to build monorails. That would be interesting.

 

[andy04]

I would rather carry a pee-bag

 

[dabuddha]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: child of wonder
I still find it hard to believe that with all the millions of people flying every day at several hundred dollars a person that the airlines are all losing their asses like they say.

It's $7.50/gallon for JetA at my home airport (SEA). An airplane typically achieves about 50 passenger miles per gallon of fuel. So, in my 2,600 mile flight, I personally use about 52 gallons of fuel. That's $390. My ticket cost $383.

Now, it's true that I fly on the lowest fare possible, but it seems likely that the airline is probably getting a bulk discount on the fuel. Even if we assume that the fuel is only costing the airline $6.00/gallon, that's still $312 in fuel costs alone per passenger. Leaving only $71 above that per passenger to cover the cost of aircraft maintenance, airport fees, flight crew salary, pilot salary, administrative costs for FAA filings... That can't leave much room for a profit.

ZV

I'd say maybe 50-60% of the people get that low rate. A lot of business travelers pay a premium price for the same seats since their companies are the ones paying.

And how about charging extra for "premium" seats?

 

[andy04]

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: child of wonder
But the airlines have been filing for bankruptcy for the last 10 years long before fuel prices skyrocketed.

That is because of all the cutthroat competition driving fares down to unsustainable levels. The low cost airlines depressed the fares so much that the big carriers didn't have much choice but to follow. When one airline would reduce fares the others would follow, and so on and so on. The result is lack of profitability. The management has also been sorely lacking in the industry for a long time. I love how they drove down fares to levels that should bankrupt a company and then expect the government to bail them out of their stupid decisions. Don't worry, there won't be many airlines left in a few years and the fares will probably be double what they are today. Air travel was never intended for the average Joe anyway.

Ok...

1. This is US of "A" flying is for everyone... just like cars and homes
2. Automobile industry is facing same probs... and they are inovating their way out...
3. They buy oil 1 year in advance...
4. Foreign airlines with much better track records are willing to buy these airlines IF US govt allows... they think they can make profit
5. their management/CEOs are just as corrupt as Washington and both togather having fun on tax payer's expense...
Pitchfork guys :disgust:

We really need a communist minded leader like Hussein - transfer of health :beer: