How long until Bernie quits?

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Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,336
136
For me, the problem with voting for the Green party is that there will never be 3 viable parties in the country, so it's really a symbolic vote, and that's fine, but I think it's the worst of 3 potential symbolic votes, the other two being writing in Sanders, and leaving the ballot blank for president and voting for down ballot races.

What we saw in 2016 is that everyone just added Clinton's vote totals to the Green Party vote totals and concluded that if Stein hadn't "split the vote" Clinton would have won. As hilarious as it is to watch that, they really are dumb enough to believe it, so they're not learning the right lesson. It's a similar issue with writing in Sanders, in that case the assumption is that anyone writing in Sanders is a fanatic who would never vote for anyone else anyway, and that's not really true, I'd vote for any progressive. Another problem with that is that Sanders is widely expected to endorse Biden, and at that point he's dead to me as a candidate, would never vote for him again if he betrayed his platform like that.

So that leaves the last option - not voting for president and just voting down ballot. I think this is the right way to send a message. Neither candidate is acceptable, the end. Your symbolic vote gets aggregated with principled voters of other political stripes as well, it's not like the Gary Johnson / Jill Stein thing last time.

What makes Biden unacceptable? That he will work with Bernie to advance his goals as possible? That he will get more liberal judges on the courts? That he will protect a womans right to choose? That he will address environmental issues such as climate change? Or that he would restore/increase funding to public schools? And advance progressive causes like equal rights, protect minorities, progressive tax reform, protect Social Security and medicare, increase health care, etc?

Is there anything there that you're opposed to? Or are you hoping to keep burning down America under Trump because you're butthurt the people didn't vote for Bernie?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,644
50,881
136
For me, the problem with voting for the Green party is that there will never be 3 viable parties in the country, so it's really a symbolic vote, and that's fine, but I think it's the worst of 3 potential symbolic votes, the other two being writing in Sanders, and leaving the ballot blank for president and voting for down ballot races.

What we saw in 2016 is that everyone just added Clinton's vote totals to the Green Party vote totals and concluded that if Stein hadn't "split the vote" Clinton would have won. As hilarious as it is to watch that, they really are dumb enough to believe it, so they're not learning the right lesson. It's a similar issue with writing in Sanders, in that case the assumption is that anyone writing in Sanders is a fanatic who would never vote for anyone else anyway, and that's not really true, I'd vote for any progressive. Another problem with that is that Sanders is widely expected to endorse Biden, and at that point he's dead to me as a candidate, would never vote for him again if he betrayed his platform like that.

So that leaves the last option - not voting for president and just voting down ballot. I think this is the right way to send a message. Neither candidate is acceptable, the end. Your symbolic vote gets aggregated with principled voters of other political stripes as well, it's not like the Gary Johnson / Jill Stein thing last time.

Remember how before you claimed you would support the Democratic nominee no matter who it was?

Glad to see you've talked yourself out of it, exactly as I said you would.
 

BurnItDwn

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
26,167
1,638
126
What makes Biden unacceptable? That he will work with Bernie to advance his goals as possible? That he will get more liberal judges on the courts? That he will protect a womans right to choose? That he will address environmental issues such as climate change? Or that he would restore/increase funding to public schools? And advance progressive causes like equal rights, protect minorities, progressive tax reform, protect Social Security and medicare, increase health care, etc?

Is there anything there that you're opposed to? Or are you hoping to keep burning down America under Trump because you're butthurt the people didn't vote for Bernie?
lol, biden and "protect social security" in the same sentence
Im not sure if you are trolling, or trying to be serious?
 
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Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,686
126
Is there anything there that you're opposed to? Or are you hoping to keep burning down America under Trump because you're butthurt the people didn't vote for Bernie?

My hopes are obviously not the same as yours as our preferred candidates demonstrate. If I thought the country would be better off under Trump I would vote for him, as I promised to do if Bloomberg was the nominee.
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,686
126
Remember how before you claimed you would support the Democratic nominee no matter who it was?

Glad to see you've talked yourself out of it, exactly as I said you would.

Yeah, I think I said something like that although I don't remember the context. That was certainly a mistake, I should have said that I would wait to see how the primary process played out.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,644
50,881
136
Yeah, I think I said something like that although I don't remember the context. That was certainly a mistake, I should have said that I would wait to see how the primary process played out.

The context was that if you actually believe in the ideals Sanders stands for you would support Biden if he were the nominee.

A few months ago I posted, in a moment of frustration, that I wouldn't vote for Biden specifically. In reality I will if he's the nominee, and the same for any other Democratic party nominee. I suspect that most conventional Sanders supporters also will, as they actually have the most to lose under a 2nd Trump term.

That said, a central theme of Bernie's campaign is bringing non-voters into the movement by making promises to them that other Democratic candidates can't credibly make. I believe Sanders would campaign for Biden or Warren as hard as he did for Clinton, but I don't know how many of those voters would easily shift to another Democratic candidate.

You also said this knowing full well that Sanders would endorse Biden if Biden won, something you said makes him dead to you now. It's interesting to watch you further radicalize yourself as the reality of Sanders' second loss sets in.
 
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repoman0

Diamond Member
Jun 17, 2010
4,701
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I like how he knew at one point that many Sanders supporters have a lot more to lose under Trump than Biden, but now fully admits he doesn’t care.
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,686
126
The context was that if you actually believe in the ideals Sanders stands for you would support Biden if he were the nominee.

You also said this knowing full well that Sanders would endorse Biden if Biden won, something you said makes him dead to you now. It's interesting to watch you further radicalize yourself as the reality of Sanders' second loss sets in.

Right, again, I should have said that I would wait to see how the process played out. For example, I certainly didn't anticipate that Biden would say he'd veto a M4A bill if it came to his desk. I was also not aware of just how bad Biden's record was. It was a mistake, and I acknowledge it.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,336
136
Honesty doesn't matter much to that crew.
What matters to "that crew," while our great nation falls to shit under Trump, is getting Trump out of the White House.

What matters to your crew is your cult of personality and tribal political identity. Which I must point out, makes you just like the MAGAs, and which is a big reason why the Democratic voters have rejected you.

I suggest that you put on your big boy panties and reassess your priorities. Before this country falls completely into fascism with Trump, and everything that you hope for politically becomes politically unobtainable.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,644
50,881
136
Right, again, I should have said that I would wait to see how the process played out. For example, I certainly didn't anticipate that Biden would say he'd veto a M4A bill if it came to his desk. I was also not aware of just how bad Biden's record was. It was a mistake, and I acknowledge it.

If it's any consolation I was highly confident from the start that you would find a way to convince yourself not to support the Democratic nominee if it wasn't Sanders so I never really believed you when you said that anyway.
 
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BurnItDwn

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
26,167
1,638
126

Q: Would you also, considering now life expectancy is 78, consider gradually raising the retirement age?

A: Well, we did that once, I supported that. That’s what got it solvent to 2041. By simply raising the cap, you can solve the problem.


Raising retirement age isn't fixing social security. Its cutting benefits.
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,686
126
What matters to "that crew," while our great nation falls to shit under Trump, is getting Trump out of the White House.

What matters to your crew is your cult of personality and tribal political identity. Which I must point out, makes you just like the MAGAs, and which is a big reason why the Democratic voters have rejected you.

I suggest that you put on your big boy panties and reassess your priorities. Before this country falls completely into fascism with Trump, and everything that you hope for politically becomes politically unobtainable.

Cult of personality when I just said I would abandon Sanders if he endorses Biden (which he will)? Whose personality exactly are you referring to?

And whose tribe do I belong to? I'd like to know.
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,686
126
If it's any consolation I was highly confident from the start that you would find a way to convince yourself not to support the Democratic nominee if it wasn't Sanders so I never really believed you when you said that anyway.

I'm happy for you. I'm also thankful that you didn't tell me, and even liked the post so as to not ruin the fantasy.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,336
136
Right, again, I should have said that I would wait to see how the process played out. For example, I certainly didn't anticipate that Biden would say he'd veto a M4A bill if it came to his desk. I was also not aware of just how bad Biden's record was. It was a mistake, and I acknowledge it.
Translation: "I can't get Medicare for all, so I'm going to sit on the sidelines while Trump makes it Medicare for none."

I have to say that you're doing a great job of proving Dark Helmet right.
 
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Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,686
126
What matters to "that crew," while our great nation falls to shit under Trump, is getting Trump out of the White House.

What matters to your crew is your cult of personality and tribal political identity. Which I must point out, makes you just like the MAGAs, and which is a big reason why the Democratic voters have rejected you.

I suggest that you put on your big boy panties and reassess your priorities. Before this country falls completely into fascism with Trump, and everything that you hope for politically becomes politically unobtainable.

Relax man, I live in NJ, my vote doesn't matter.
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,754
2,344
126
What matters to "that crew," while our great nation falls to shit under Trump, is getting Trump out of the White House.

What matters to your crew is your cult of personality and tribal political identity. Which I must point out, makes you just like the MAGAs, and which is a big reason why the Democratic voters have rejected you.

I suggest that you put on your big boy panties and reassess your priorities. Before this country falls completely into fascism with Trump, and everything that you hope for politically becomes politically unobtainable.

Yea but he's gonna vote for all the down ballot candidates and leave President blank, that'll show em!
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,644
50,881
136
I'm happy for you. I'm also thankful that you didn't tell me, and even liked the post so as to not ruin the fantasy.

Of course, I would have been happy to have been wrong and was trying to encourage good and rational behavior. I clearly failed.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,336
136
Q: Would you also, considering now life expectancy is 78, consider gradually raising the retirement age?

A: Well, we did that once, I supported that. That’s what got it solvent to 2041. By simply raising the cap, you can solve the problem.


Raising retirement age isn't fixing social security. Its cutting benefits.

That's not how I would solve the problem, and I fully look forward to Democrats debating how best to solve it. Next January in Congress.
 
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dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
36,129
30,523
136
...

So that leaves the last option - not voting for president and just voting down ballot. I think this is the right way to send a message. Neither candidate is acceptable, the end. Your symbolic vote gets aggregated with principled voters of other political stripes as well, it's not like the Gary Johnson / Jill Stein thing last time.
Nobody is going to get that message.
 
Feb 4, 2009
35,248
16,716
136
Nobody is going to get that message.

We will get the message. The message will be you are stupid and can’t be counted on. Sort of like how I kept hearing about how all these young people were going to be out to vote this cycle. Primary voting is down pre virus and it’s safe to assume they won’t turn out for the general election either.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,548
15,425
136
Q: Would you also, considering now life expectancy is 78, consider gradually raising the retirement age?

A: Well, we did that once, I supported that. That’s what got it solvent to 2041. By simply raising the cap, you can solve the problem.


Raising retirement age isn't fixing social security. Its cutting benefits.


I guess his answer was too complicated for you to understand.

Btw, your troll game is weak, no one believes you were going to vote for anyone but trump.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
36,129
30,523
136
Q: Would you also, considering now life expectancy is 78, consider gradually raising the retirement age?

A: Well, we did that once, I supported that. That’s what got it solvent to 2041. By simply raising the cap, you can solve the problem.


Raising retirement age isn't fixing social security. Its cutting benefits.
SS age sometimes needs to be adjusted as life expectancy increases. Is this the pitiful anthill people are willing to die on?
 
Mar 11, 2004
23,280
5,722
146
If it's any consolation I was highly confident from the start that you would find a way to convince yourself not to support the Democratic nominee if it wasn't Sanders so I never really believed you when you said that anyway.

I tried to tell you guys.