How long have video games been ineligible for USPS Media Mail?!

[CZroe]

I remember being told many years ago that I couldn't ship a video game via Media Mail because the manual had advertisements for other games. Admittedly, some do, but the manual was still sealed in the game case and the clerk was full of crap. Were VHS movies ineligible because there's likely a trailer for another movie at the beginning? No. I had read every nuance of Media Mail restrictions back then and even Amazon used it for their super-cheap shipping. He was talking about what makes magazines and newspapers ineligible, but I wonder what he would have done if I just opened it and removed the manual.

So now, it appears, they have officially excluded them. Since when and why? It's been a long time since I looked.

Video games, whether on CD-ROM, diskettes, or similar software, or playable systems including computers, do not meet the standards for Media Mail. Storage devices such as "portable hard drives", "thumb drives", "flash drives", "jump-drives", and "USB drives" for use with computers are not eligible for Media Mail prices. For specific eligibility please see DMM 173.3.

http://postcalc.usps.com/PopUps/MediaMail.htm

Blank/recordable media has never been allowed, but excluding pressed software discs just because the contents happen to be entertaining? To me, allowing software but not video games is like allowing books but not fiction or movies but not action movies. An unfair exclusion?

*rant*
I hate it when my hobby is unfairly targeted for exclusion or unwarranted scrutiny, like when a group of news commentators sit around and talk about how little Billy Jr can play daddy's adult games when he's away, and say that game consoles need parental controls, and say that ratings should be printed large and on the FRONT of the box, and imply that tamer-than-broadcast-TV content should just be rated Adults Only for the heck of it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKzF173GqTU

He can play daddy's adult movies just the same, they do have parental controls, the ESRB ratings ARE on the front of the box and larger than any "rated" DVD, and only *PC* games can be made with an AO rating but most retailers still wouldn't stock them.

 

[T_Yamamoto]

You mad bro?

 

[CZroe]

You mad bro?

Yes.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

They're a private entity capable of going out of business. Why not just go to the other post-service and use them?

 

[PieIsAwesome]

First class is cheap and fast for light items like games. Screw media mail.

 

[CZroe]

First class is cheap and fast for light items like games. Screw media mail.

Discs aren't the only kind of video game and if you ship a bunch of separately packaged discs together in a larger package, as you would be expected to do with new merchandise to the same recipient, 1st class quickly gets expensive.

 

[PieIsAwesome]

Discs aren't the only kind of video game.

Unless you are talking collector's edition games or old pc games with giant manuals or boxes that crushed, I have a hard time imagining a game that you wouldn't be able to ship first class.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Yes its fucking stupid so just say they're movies.

 

[SMOGZINN]

They're a private entity capable of going out of business. Why not just go to the other post-service and use them?

The USPS is not a private entity, it is a federal agency that acts a lot like a private business. But it still receives taxpayer money (close to $100 mil a year!), and have a large number of powers reserved for federal agencies.

Per Title 39:

The United States Postal Service shall be operated as a basic and fundamental service provided to the people by the Government of the United States, authorized by the Constitution, created by Act of Congress, and supported by the people.

 

[CZroe]

Unless you are talking collector's edition games or old pc games with giant manuals or boxes that crushed, I have a hard time imagining a game that you wouldn't be able to ship first class.

I am talking about old large-box PC games, cartridge-based console games, etc. "Hobbyist," remember? The entire wall in front of me right now is covered with large-box PC and console games. Yes, most of the console games were accessory bundles: the GameCube bongo and dance mat games are there, as well as an NES Power Pad with World Class Track Meet, SuperScope 6, Sega Menacer, "tall box" CD-i and 3DO games cases (and those are discs!), etc.

While I've sent many DVD-sized cases in fitted envelopes via 1st class (for a single case it's actually cheaper), I don't think I can ship a Sega Genesis game in the original plastic snap case in an outer box via 1st class because it would be too thick.

 

[CZroe]

Yes its fucking stupid so just say they're movies.

The problem is that Media Mail is subject to inspection and often is inspected. I wonder if it would be better to claim that it is printed documentation with software included, like a textbook. Media Mail *is* primarily for books (created for library exchange). Movies and software are allowed but, for some reason, a narrowly defined segment of entertainment software is excluded despite no similar exclusion for entertainment books and movies. Heck, audio recordings are allowed which is almost always assumed to be entertainment (music), so why not just ban music albums and only allow instructional recordings or books on tape?!

 

[Dr. Zaus]

The USPS is not a private entity, it is a federal agency that acts a lot like a private business. But it still receives taxpayer money (close to $100 mil a year!), and have a large number of powers reserved for federal agencies.

Per Title 39:

Oh; then write your congresswoman I'm 100% sure it'll have the same high-level of impact to your daily life choosing between competing private entities does.

The problem is that Media Mail is subject to inspection and often is inspected. I wonder if it would be better to claim that it is printed documentation with software included, like a textbook. Media Mail *is* primarily for books (created for library exchange). Movies and software are allowed but, for some reason, a narrowly defined segment of entertainment software is excluded despite no similar exclusion for entertainment books and movies. Heck, audio recordings are allowed which is almost always assumed to be entertainment (music)! Why not just bad music CDs and only allow instructional recordings or books on tape?!

If it was created for ILL then it makes sense to exclude media that libraries don't stock.

 

[CZroe]

If it was created for ILL then it makes sense to exclude media that libraries don't stock.

Many libraries DO stock video games, movies, and music; and not just the educational variety. It has been a long time since the original intention was relevant at all.

 

[Phoenix86]

Pass the costs to the consumer and advertise as such, anyone you are competing against will have the same costs increase.

I don't really agree with the exclusion but then again I don't really see why there's a need for media mail for the general public. Why should media get a shipping discount in the first place?

Ranting about ratings and game box covers doesn't help.

 

[Ichinisan]

Ranting about ratings and game box covers doesn't help.

This.

 

[CZroe]

Pass the costs to the consumer and advertise as such, anyone you are competing against will have the same costs increase.

I don't really agree with the exclusion but then again I don't really see why there's a need for media mail for the general public. Why should media get a shipping discount in the first place?

Ranting about ratings and game box covers doesn't help.

The general public has to ship books too, which are often disproportionately heavy for their value and fragility (ever sell used textbooks?). There's no reason for libraries to get that benefit exclusively when the economies of scale will make it cheaper for them when "book rate" volume is increased.

The rant about ratings and box covers is meant to renew outrage for such blatant ignorance and similarly unfair impositions. I considered mentioning the assumed inevitable "Internet sales tax" that unfairly targets online sales when it should be a "mail-order" sales tax that applies to catalogs and TV commercials/infomercials just the same. The people arguing for or against it never bring this up. Instead, I chose something more relevant as another example of how games in particular are unfairly excluded/targeted/considered/compared to equivalent media.

 

[Leros]

The problem is that Media Mail is subject to inspection and often is inspected. I wonder if it would be better to claim that it is printed documentation with software included, like a textbook. Media Mail *is* primarily for books (created for library exchange). Movies and software are allowed but, for some reason, a narrowly defined segment of entertainment software is excluded despite no similar exclusion for entertainment books and movies. Heck, audio recordings are allowed which is almost always assumed to be entertainment (music), so why not just ban music albums and only allow instructional recordings or books on tape?!

Yeah. The post office I go to won't let you use Media Mail if you have already sealed your package. You have to let them inspect the contents and then you can seal it.

 

[CZroe]

FWIW, the differentiating factor for the exclusion of magazines and newspapers is not the presence of ads, it's that the costs of distributing them are fully or partially paid for by other means than the actual market value of the product and, thus, they don't need a discounted rate to appeal to consumers. Should DVDs be ineligible because they have trailers for other movies on them? What if they only had trailers for the movie itself (archival)?

Now that I've thought about it for a bit and looked at it from the "what deserves a discounted rate" angle:
My guess for why they are treated differently is that the value of new $60 games compared to the size and material/transportation cost is so disproportionate that they expect little resistance to them getting a cut of the price by denying the discounted rate. That said, very few people use the mail to buy full-priced new releases and a lot of private sales are used titles at prices that are only a fraction of the "hit driven" new market introductory price. "Hit driven" prices mean that even good games often sell very few copies at the discouraging price of $60 so that they can justify charging that much when a mega-hit is truly worth it; discouraged sales pick up when they quickly drop price or enter a discounted value/hits series in a few months. Those $50 games become $20 and those $60 games become $30, but because people usually expect deals when they shop online for something they could buy in-store, the majority going by mail will be steeply discounted well beyond that.

 

[Phoenix86]

The general public has to ship books too, which are often disproportionately heavy for their value and fragility (ever sell used textbooks?). There's no reason for libraries to get that benefit exclusively when the economies of scale will make it cheaper for them when "book rate" volume is increased.

The rant about ratings and box covers is meant to renew outrage for such blatant ignorance and similarly unfair impositions. I considered mentioning the assumed inevitable "Internet sales tax" that unfairly targets online sales when it should be a "mail-order" sales tax that applies to catalogs and TV commercials/infomercials just the same. The people arguing for or against it never bring this up. Instead, I chose something more relevant as another example of how games in particular are unfairly excluded/targeted/considered/compared to equivalent media.

So make it apply to only books.

Making related but multiple request for action often ends with inaction. What -specifically- did the occupy protests want? "Fix everything". What did they get? Nada.

In other words, if you think you have a good argument on media mail (which it doesn't since you are defeating your own points) stick to just that point.

 

[CZroe]

So make it apply to only books.

As discussed, libraries ship a lot more media than books, as do students and many other intended beneficiaries.

 

[JamesV]

I used to send video games by media mail all the time, from sales on Ebay. Had no idea about the restriction, and went to first class, which is cheaper by $1, which is huge when you send alot of games.

I print postage on Ebay, and media mail was $2.69. For the same weight/size item (console game case size item), first class is $1.70 and is faster. The only time I used media mail lately, was when I sold Fallout 3 and the guide book; it would have cost almost $9 to send together, but cost $4.40 sending the game first class, and the guide book via media mail.

Media mail is worthless, unless you are sending books; first class is cheaper and faster for low weight items.

 

[CZroe]

I used to send video games by media mail all the time, from sales on Ebay. Had no idea about the restriction, and went to first class, which is cheaper by $1, which is huge when you send alot of games.

I print postage on Ebay, and media mail was $2.69. For the same weight/size item (console game case size item), first class is $1.70 and is faster. The only time I used media mail lately, was when I sold Fallout 3 and the guide book; it would have cost almost $9 to send together, but cost $4.40 sending the game first class, and the guide book via media mail.

Media mail is worthless, unless you are sending books [or packs of multiple games or over-sized game packages]; first class is cheaper and faster for low weight items.

FTFY. I, too, send individual DVD-sized cases via 1st class, but I've also shipped some rather large Media Mail packages, like when I moved my entire game collection cross-country last year (couldn't take it on the motorcycle). It was probably already restricted, but I didn't know that.

 

[Phoenix86]

As discussed, libraries ship a lot more media than books, as do students and many other intended beneficiaries.

Every reply you have excludes the way you use media mail.

Oh, but books are heavy (you aren't shipping books), and libraries ship more than books (you aren't a library).

You are using this for commerce, again I see no reason why you should qualify for a discount. It wouldn't even matter if you are a student because again, this is commerce.

Honestly, you don't have a leg to stand on here.

 

[CZroe]

Every reply you have excludes the way you use media mail.

Oh, but books are heavy (you aren't shipping books), and libraries ship more than books (you aren't a library).

You are using this for commerce, again I see no reason why you should qualify for a discount. It wouldn't even matter if you are a student because again, this is commerce.

Honestly, you don't have a leg to stand on here.

Read again. I wasn't being specific at first because I've used it for almost everything that qualifies, but I did give you one specific example that you glossed over. The only time I recall using it last year was when I spent over $400 shipping my belongings from San Diego, CA to Newnan, GA. My twin brother used it to exchange boatloads of BDs, DVDs, and games with me over the course of the last three years (shared collection) and they ultimately came back in that same shipment. Each year my brother and I have a birthday and Christmas package for my out-of-state nephew full of duplicate games that I got great deals on, but I delivered them in-person last year. Expensive hobby necessitates finding the best deal on everything and maximizing that, so of course I paid attention to when Media Mail made sense and when First Class made sense.

And don't say that I'm not a library again. Libraries are one form or archival and I, as a collector, am another. The government supporting one over another is unfairly competing with private enterprise. The "commercial" argument holds no water either. I can use it to ship all the Windows and Photoshop discs I want (commercial software) or all the movies and music albums I want (commercial entertainment media) but I can't ship entertainment software, commercial or otherwise. WTF?!

 

[Phoenix86]

Read again. I wasn't being specific at first because I've used it for almost everything that qualifies, but I did give you one specific example that you glossed over. The only time I recall using it last year was when I spent over $400 shipping my belongings from San Diego, CA to Newnan, GA. My twin brother used it to exchange boatloads of BDs, DVDs, and games with me over the course of the last three years (shared collection) and they ultimately came back in that same shipment.

I didn't gloss over it, but I'm not going to focus on it either. You have made it more than clear you buy/sell/collect a lot of these items and that's what makes you upset. Your initial rant was about games. Showing other uses is irrelevant to your initial position: media mail shouldn't exclude games.

Each year my brother and I have a birthday and Christmas package for my out-of-state nephew full of duplicate games that I got great deals on, but I delivered them in-person last year. Expensive hobby necessitates finding the best deal on everything and maximizing that, so of course I paid attention to when Media Mail made sense and when First Class made sense.

Here we go back to my original response: why should media get a discount at all (gladly concede that all books and libraries should have access to it)? You can't answer that question.

And don't say that I'm not a library again. Libraries are one form or archival and I, as a collector, am another. The government supporting one over another is unfairly competing with private enterprise. The "commercial" argument holds no water either. I can use it to ship all the Windows and Photoshop discs I want (commercial software) or all the movies and music albums I want (commercial entertainment media) but I can't ship entertainment software, commercial or otherwise. WTF?!

Libraries are public use facilities, you are not. This is a really bad argument. Commercial use vs. gov't use is a major deciding factor in many laws, same with non-profit. You said it yourself, media mail was designed for libraries, not commerce. As far as your other commercial use, see my original point. I don't think that should be allowed either, and it wouldn't surprise me to see all dvd/cds get removed from the list...

Basically, I see no reason for a publicly funded government service to give a discount (and let's not kid ourselves it's a big discount) to commercial use of their services. Especially considering the finances of the US Post office.