how long do you think they will keep making cars in manual transmission?

brainhulk

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2007
9,376
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http://jalopnik.com/the-next-porsche-911-gt3-might-not-have-a-manual-and-wi-269932421

reading that article gives me a sad. Hopefully not in my lifetime.

heel_and_toe_historian_500.png
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
32,613
11,717
136
DSG/PDK is absolutely faster...but i think it takes some of the enjoyment and human element out of it.

i much prefer rowing my own gears as opposing to clicking and have a machine do all the work for me. there's jsut a sense of satisfaction hitting one gear to the next.
 

phucheneh

Diamond Member
Jun 30, 2012
7,306
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...how long will people keep making these threads? It's as tired as 'when do you think desktop PC's will go away?'

It also shows a stunningly narrow view of the world car market. Perhaps you meant 'when do you think they will stop bothering to offer MT's in cars built to North American specifications [because of the prevalence of lazy, terrible drivers]?'

edit: Random example for 'the universe does not revolve around America':

Here's a 2013 Nissan offering in Mexico-
http://www.nissan.com.mx/autos/tsuru

They stopped selling that car in the US in 1994. I don't understand why it didn't immediately disappear from existence? :confused:
 
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_Rick_

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2012
3,943
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Manuals are for now still lighter and cheaper. Once that changes, they will disappear, except for purity purposes. I don't expect Dacia to drop the manual for quite a while.
In the performance segment though, an automatic is faster, smoother and even the weight is no longer much of an issue, because the torque means your trans will have to be heavy duty anyway.
And shifting while turning is much more comforting, when you've just got to pull a lever.
 

phucheneh

Diamond Member
Jun 30, 2012
7,306
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And shifting while turning is much more comforting, when you've just got to pull a lever.

Assuming 'lever' is 'paddle' in this context: that assumes they put them in the right position, which they increasingly don't.

Also, you do realize that a legit 'flappy paddle' gearbox is a manual trans that is computer-controlled, right?
 

_Rick_

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2012
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Assuming 'lever' is 'paddle' in this context: that assumes they put them in the right position, which they increasingly don't.

Yes, mostly paddles, but also a big old sequential gear levers. Getting paddles right is difficult - fixing them to the wheel means they stay where your hands are, as long as you don't take your hands off the wheel. Fixing them to the steering column means that if your arms ever cross, then the wrong paddle is under the hand - or none in reach at all. An interesting compromise might be to use large round paddles, and gear them to the steering wheel, so that they turn at half wheel rate. Then you only get confused when going from D to R in the car park. But N/R shouldn't even be selectable on the paddles.

Also, you do realize that a legit 'flappy paddle' gearbox is a manual trans that is computer-controlled, right?

Sometimes it is, sometimes it is not. There are those hydraulic auto boxes and CVTs that simulate gears and make them selectable via paddle shifters.
There is the family of double clutch gearboxes, which are quite distinct of normal manual boxes... Depends on how you define 'legit' ;)

If the computer shifts for you - it's an automatic. And the computer can at times clutch/declutch better (faster/smoother) than a human. Gear selection can also be faster, if the system is properly spec'ed.
In those cases it's also a trade-off between lost complexity by losing the mechanical linkage, to added complexity due to the shift/clutch motors.
 

phucheneh

Diamond Member
Jun 30, 2012
7,306
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I just see it as:

constant mesh gears with two gears per set (other than reverse) and a clutch (or two) = manual

planetary gears (...except Honda), clutch packs, and a torque converter = automatic

While I prefer a standard 'three pedals and a stick' style of manual, I just have to draw a line at manually shifting automatics. Unless you're driving a drag car with a full manual valve body or something...meh, it just seems lame. At least with DSG and similar tech, you have the argument of lightning-fast shifts while being able to keep a fairly strong, lightweight gearbox. As far as performance is concerned, I think it's the best, hands down.

...but I still don't want it. :colbert:

And I'll argue for column mounted paddle shifts to my death. If they're the proper size and position, you ain't losing them. In comparison, unless you have ultra fast ratio steering or are going to avoid sharp turns, wheel-mounted ones aren't going to stay under your hands.

Don't even get me started on automatic trans + wheel mounted shifters + up/down switches on both sides of the wheel. Might as well put a wing and some neons on the car.
 

z1ggy

Lifer
May 17, 2008
10,009
65
91
I think they will go away once cars are over whelmingly electric driven. I think we have a few decades though before that happens. Oil companies still have our nuts in a vice grip.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,829
3
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They'll go away once all cars are electric. The American automakers tried their best to kill the manual-- for example, Cadillac builds sport sedans and the manual is only offered with the lower power 4 cylinder engine.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,829
3
0
I just see it as:

constant mesh gears with two gears per set (other than reverse) and a clutch (or two) = manual

planetary gears (...except Honda), clutch packs, and a torque converter = automatic

While I prefer a standard 'three pedals and a stick' style of manual, I just have to draw a line at manually shifting automatics. Unless you're driving a drag car with a full manual valve body or something...meh, it just seems lame. At least with DSG and similar tech, you have the argument of lightning-fast shifts while being able to keep a fairly strong, lightweight gearbox. As far as performance is concerned, I think it's the best, hands down.

...but I still don't want it. :colbert:

And I'll argue for column mounted paddle shifts to my death. If they're the proper size and position, you ain't losing them. In comparison, unless you have ultra fast ratio steering or are going to avoid sharp turns, wheel-mounted ones aren't going to stay under your hands.

Don't even get me started on automatic trans + wheel mounted shifters + up/down switches on both sides of the wheel. Might as well put a wing and some neons on the car.

That has to be a pretty sharp turn to make you lose the paddles...
 

Naeeldar

Senior member
Aug 20, 2001
854
1
81
They'll go away once all cars are electric. The American automakers tried their best to kill the manual-- for example, Cadillac builds sport sedans and the manual is only offered with the lower power 4 cylinder engine.

I think they will go away once cars are over whelmingly electric driven. I think we have a few decades though before that happens. Oil companies still have our nuts in a vice grip.


It's funny the number of people posting this. Take look at some of the cars in Europe these days which for many years has been predominantly Manual. They are no longer offering manuals on a lot of the german sport performance cars - s4 for example. They are now only offering the DSG transmission. If Europe jumps in we could see the manual become an expensive option in the near future. America as a whole always had fewer manual driven cars and if Europe follows you have a large segment of new car now not driving manuals.

I still think we will see it as an option for some time but you'll pay for it.
 

BUTCH1

Lifer
Jul 15, 2000
20,433
1,769
126
Most people want automatics anyway, automakers don't care investing in a manual option only to have a tiny percent actually buy them, it's simple economics..
 

JackBurton

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
15,993
14
81
My car doesn't even have an automatic as an option.....

Exactly, and that's how it should be. If manuals were limited to sports cars, I'd be fine with that. Ford had to put automatics in the V6 and GT versions of their Mustangs because that was their bread and butter (more the V6 than the GT, but both are still the Mustang's big sellers). For the 302 and GT500, it gets a manual only. Why? Because that is the way the car was meant to be driven, with no compromises. If you don't like it, go buy another car. I believe the Corvette's are the same way. The basic and GS versions get automatic options, while the Z06 and ZR-1 are manual only.

In all honesty, I'd be happy with manuals being removed from all cars except sports cars. The fewer people that know how to drive a manual, the safer my car is. :)
 
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Railgun

Golden Member
Mar 27, 2010
1,289
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BMW had said it's very much customer driven for them so as long as we keep buying, they'll keep making and selling.
 

JackBurton

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
15,993
14
81
BMW had said it's very much customer driven for them so as long as we keep buying, they'll keep making and selling.

I thought BMW was going to pull the manual transmission from the M5 as it is only a US option and didn't make a lot of financial sense.
 

kitatech

Senior member
Jan 7, 2013
484
3
81
When my 99 Altima stick got rearendtotaled I had no time to casually find a replacement...and it had to be a stick, of course....and got lucky shopping at my 1st stop...and got an 05 Camry LE stick (with new clutch and cylinders) that I'll baby as long as I can considering that in 10+ years I may no longer have any MT choices at all....
 
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phucheneh

Diamond Member
Jun 30, 2012
7,306
5
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That has to be a pretty sharp turn to make you lose the paddles...

A lot of 'em are pretty damn small. And it's further complicated by the 'thumb up, finger down' style of operation that give you like a square inch of 'button' to hit (I may have that up/down bit backward, I can't remember).

I'm also not much for 'ten and two,' so yeah, my hands just aren't going to stay there unless I'm negotiating higher speed, gentle turns. I'd much rather have the Ferarri/Nissan (lol, weird combo, but they're always the two most prominent examples I can think of) style paddles, where there's a big 4-6" or so metal stick on either side of the column that I can grab without thinking.
 

Sixguns

Platinum Member
May 22, 2011
2,258
2
81
I love that my car is a standard. They only time it sucks is when you are stuck in traffic.
 

Crono

Lifer
Aug 8, 2001
23,720
1,502
136
So long as people want the option they will still make manual transmissions, even if they cost more than automatics in the future.

With self-driving cars in the not so distant future, a better question is how many people will continue to drive their own cars most of the time when cars are able to drive safely from destination to destination with little input from the "driver".
 

RichieZ

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2000
6,549
37
91
As long as people want to buy them. I am a current porsche owner and am thinking about buying a new 911, I will not buy the PDK.

http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/porsche-admits-manual-gearbox-could-die-20130214-2efl8.html

Its Cayenne SUV and Panamera limousine are already offered in Australia exclusively with automatic gearboxes, and it has confirmed even its most hard-core, track-focused model, the next-generation 911 GT3, will be available with a PDK automatic transmission for the first time when it is revealed at next month’s Geneva motor show before arriving in Australia later this year.

“That is an interesting question for us at the moment,” Porsche’s vice president for R&D, planning and processes, Bunno Brandlhuber, told Drive.

“As far as I know the take-up rates of the PDK in the 911 is up to 80 percent and in the Boxster and Cayman it is around 60-70 percent. And it is increasing. Maybe someday the question will come whether we need a manual gearbox anymore.

“That question may be answered in two years or five years time, but the customer will dictate this for us.

One potential saviour for the manual gearbox could be the United States market. While Americans generally prefer automatics, most Porsche sports cars sold in the States have a manual gearbox.

“There are some Porsche enthusiasts who prefer [a manual gearbox] and we will continue to offer this in the meantime. But we are constantly looking at the customer behaviour and maybe the time will come when the manual transmission is an old style. Maybe one day it will become irrelevant.”
 

NAC

Golden Member
Dec 30, 2000
1,105
11
81
I've been driving about 20 years, and had an automatic for 14 months of that time. I hated it, sold the car I had bought new for a large loss, and switched back to a manual. I'll continue to buy them as long as I can.