How long before we see the southbridge integrated onto the CPU itself?

[StrangerGuy]

Lynnfield: northbridge integrated with the CPU die

Arrandale: IGP moved onto the CPU package

SB: IGP integrated with CPU die, clock generator moved onto the CPU

In fact with things they are now, I'm surprised the southbridge haven't moved onto the CPU with SB since the circuitry is far less complicated than the IGP (my educated guess, I'm no engineer). The best reason I can think of is Intel doesn't want to marginalize its chipset division...Yet.

 

[BD231]

Is there a need to? What advantage would that offer?

 

[StrangerGuy]

Is there a need to? What advantage would that offer?

Save previous space on laptop mobos?

 

[JFAMD]

There is a tradeoff. You gain space and reduce cost by integrating it, but you also lose. Any time the southbridge functionality (which costs a couple of dollars) does not work, you throw away the processor (which costs you hundreds in lost revenue.)

Everything is a tradeoff in life, there are no free lunches. Ask yourself, would you rather have an integrated SB or an extra core? Functionally, they are the same cost at that point if they are taking up the same amount of silicon.

 

[gevorg]

Maybe when a typical CPU will have 12+ cores, it wouldn't be much of a loss (i.e. to have one less core but a build-in southbridge).

This is a good question for Highly Technical crowd.

 

[IntelUser2000]

In fact with things they are now, I'm surprised the southbridge haven't moved onto the CPU with SB since the circuitry is far less complicated than the IGP (my educated guess, I'm no engineer). The best reason I can think of is Intel doesn't want to marginalize its chipset division...Yet.

That's why they don't need to do it. It can be on older processes and use outdated fabs, and no problem. They are also far less performance critical and might hinder back things like clock speeds. They are obviously doing the integration with smartphone chips, but desktop and laptop chips don't need to do it.

Better thing would be to integrate main memory. That would be really good if they can put significant amounts on the die.

 

[magomago]

That's why they don't need to do it. It can be on older processes and use outdated fabs, and no problem. They are also far less performance critical and might hinder back things like clock speeds. They are obviously doing the integration with smartphone chips, but desktop and laptop chips don't need to do it.

Better thing would be to integrate main memory. That would be really good if they can put significant amounts on the die.

Lol might as well be called 'PC on a chip' at that stage lol.

 

[IntelUser2000]

Lol might as well be called 'PC on a chip' at that stage lol.

"PoC" or PC-on-a-Chip

You've heard it here first!

 

[Dark Shroud]

There are IGPs with the south bridge controller built in. I think Nvidia has done this with their ION chips.

 

[gorobei]

system on chip "SOC" aka ARM.

 

[JFAMD]

Yes, SOC is the right acronym for it. Eventually the market will get there. The issue in racing there is that there is little benefit in getting the SB technology on the processor itself. In terms of integration there are far higher value pieces of integration that can be done first.

 

[brandonb]

I have to ask the question.

Way back in the stone age (think 1980's) we had CPU's which handled everything. Then in the 1990's, we had 3d graphics chips, sound cards, etc etc etc, which took the load off the CPU and placed it into these chips. The Amiga computer had custom processors for audio, graphics, io, etc and it was considered fast at the time because of it.

So why are we pushing to put everything back on chip? I suppose they could be on the CPU but not part of the CPU... That technological advances can make the processors so small that basically they are all there separate, but under the CPU heatsink. I dunno.

 

[AtenRa]

I don't see High performance CPUs to get integrated graphics and SBs. High End, workstation and Server CPUs will continue to be produced with a minimum integration level (Memory Controllers but not VGA/NB etc).

High volume mainstream CPUs could be fully integrated in the near future like ARM SOC.

 

[BBMW]

Lower mobo manufacturing costs. Not a big deal for us, a huge deal for manufacturers at various levels.

As device size drops, and the number of cores reaches the point of diminshing returns (which it pretty much already has, based on the currently available software), they'll be looking to stick more and more functionality from peripheral chips onto the cpu die. Look for better/faster IGPs, probably with multiple graphics cores eventually. But I think the southbridge will get sucked in there also.

Is there a need to? What advantage would that offer?

 

[firewolfsm]

The southbridge, even ram in some cases, will be integrated within 6 years. We'll also begin stacking the chips three dimensionally to allow for more exponentially more interconnects with less actual wire within the chip.

This tides us over until we have a chip so flexible as to create its own southbridge by learning the necessary functions.

 

[yottabit]

I have to ask the question.

Way back in the stone age (think 1980's) we had CPU's which handled everything. Then in the 1990's, we had 3d graphics chips, sound cards, etc etc etc, which took the load off the CPU and placed it into these chips. The Amiga computer had custom processors for audio, graphics, io, etc and it was considered fast at the time because of it.

So why are we pushing to put everything back on chip? I suppose they could be on the CPU but not part of the CPU... That technological advances can make the processors so small that basically they are all there separate, but under the CPU heatsink. I dunno.

Haha... this reminds me of when I told me Electrical Engineering professor how I've been excited about the first on die GPU's and GPGPU programming and he basically greeted me with a very unenthused "Yeah, they've been going back and forth on that for a while now."

Same with cloud vs PC. Seems like people are going through a cloud phase right now

 

[OS]

system on chip is nothing new;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaGX

 

[frostedflakes]

Yeah, ARM and other embedded CPUs moved to SoC a long time ago. And I think Intel recently introduced (or will be introducing very soon) an Atom SoC meant to compete with the likes of ARM in stuff like cell phones.

 

[epidemis]

Haha... this reminds me of when I told me Electrical Engineering professor how I've been excited about the first on die GPU's and GPGPU programming and he basically greeted me with a very unenthused "Yeah, they've been going back and forth on that for a while now."

Same with cloud vs PC. Seems like people are going through a cloud phase right now

Don't forget 3d!!

 

[aigomorla]

i heard someone was experimenting with a morphic die.

what does that mean?

Basically a die, which can change its physical properties and emulate whats needed.

What does that still mean?

Basically you will see a board with 4 chips, and only 4 chips.

Those 4 chips can emulate the cpu + gpu + IO + ram on the fly as needed.

I dont know what happened to this project, but it did seem to hold a lot of theoretical benefits.

 

[OS]

that's nothing special either, they already have that, they're called FPGAs, my masters thesis was developing a DDR memory controller onto a FPGA.

 

[Sp12]

i heard someone was experimenting with a morphic die.

what does that mean?

Basically a die, which can change its physical properties and emulate whats needed.

What does that still mean?

Basically you will see a board with 4 chips, and only 4 chips.

Those 4 chips can emulate the cpu + gpu + IO + ram on the fly as needed.

I dont know what happened to this project, but it did seem to hold a lot of theoretical benefits.

Could you explain more about a 'morphic die'/adaptable silicon? I'm not able to find any good articles on it.

 

[BD231]

Lower mobo manufacturing costs. Not a big deal for us, a huge deal for manufacturers at various levels.

As device size drops, and the number of cores reaches the point of diminshing returns (which it pretty much already has, based on the currently available software), they'll be looking to stick more and more functionality from peripheral chips onto the cpu die. Look for better/faster IGPs, probably with multiple graphics cores eventually. But I think the southbridge will get sucked in there also.

Laptops I can understand, however I'd be against the tie of ever changing I/O standards to my CPU.

 

[frostedflakes]

Could you explain more about a 'morphic die'/adaptable silicon? I'm not able to find any good articles on it.

Just sounds like an FPGA, which is nothing new.

 

[aigomorla]

but FPGA arent available as a cpu option.. lol..

Basically one chip which can be everything on the fly.