How long before the health care bill brings down the economy?

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,883
641
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"We can never insure one-hundred percent of the population against one-hundred percent of the hazards and vicissitudes of life. But we have tried to frame a law which will give some measure of protection to the average citizen and to his family against the loss of a job and against poverty-ridden old age. This law, too, represents a cornerstone in a structure which is being built, but is by no means complete.... It is...a law that will take care of human needs and at the same time provide for the United States an economic structure of vastly greater soundness."
-- Franklin D. Roosevelt, August 14, 1935

As of June, 2009 - Social Security has an unfunded liability of $28 trillion dollars.

"During your working years, the people of America--you--will contribute through the social security program a small amount each payday for hospital insurance protection. For example, the average worker in 1966 will contribute about $1.50 per month. The employer will contribute a similar amount. And this will provide the funds to pay up to 90 days of hospital care for each illness, plus diagnostic care, and up to 100 home health visits after you are 65. And beginning in 1967, you will also be covered for up to 100 days of care in a skilled nursing home after a period of hospital care.

And under a separate plan, when you are 65--that the Congress originated itself, in its own good judgment--you may be covered for medical and surgical fees whether you are in or out of the hospital. You will pay $3 per month after you are 65 and your Government will contribute an equal amount.

The benefits under the law are as varied and broad as the marvelous modern medicine itself. If it has a few defects--such as the method of payment of certain specialists-then I am confident those can be quickly remedied and I hope they will be.

No longer will older Americans be denied the healing miracle of modern medicine. No longer will illness crush and destroy the savings that they have so carefully put away over a lifetime so that they might enjoy dignity in their later years. No longer will young families see their own incomes, and their own hopes, eaten away simply because they are carrying out their deep moral obligations to their parents, and to their uncles, and their aunts."
-- Lyndon B. Johnson, July 30, 1965

As of June 2009 - Medicare/Medicaid has an unfunded liability of $89 trillion dollars.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. These programs, that we rely on so heavily today, were started with the best of intentions. They have been expanded beyond their original intent, they have been mismanaged, they have been politicized. These two programs alone have put a burden close to $1 million dollars on every household in this country.

The same mindset that cheered the institution of Social Security, the same mindset that cheered the institution of Medicaid will cheer for this health care bill before this day is done.

But, I know, this health care plan will be different.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Some bridges are better crossed as you cross them. Basically there will be a pairing down of benefits of old and salaries of med professionals and elimination of insurance and huge profits by pharma and associated industries.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
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Didn't the OP also ask "how long before Obama's stimulus brings down the economy?"
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Didn't the OP also ask "how long before Obama's stimulus brings down the economy?"

And you don't think it hasn't? Have you looked around lately? The "must pass or doom" stimulus hasn't done shit as it wasn't really about stimulus - it was a huge pork and payback fest.
This bill will do immediate damage as many companies will drop insurance and just pay the fine. Others will have their existing coverage reworked(a HUGE BHO LIE) due to minimums and other bureaucratic nonsense as well as immediate rate hikes for those of of who already carry insurance if the "pre-existing" crap goes through. It's quite simple to see if you don't have your head up BHO's ass. :)
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Immediately as companies get their bottom line killed when they are already hurting. It may be the big thing that finally breaks the country, which is what Obama really wants. Thanks a lot asshole, you got your long dream of destroying the country in under 14 months.
 

woodie1

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2000
5,947
0
0
Since much of this bill won't be in force until 2014 I think it will be gutted after the November 2010 elections. Giving the insurance industry 30+ million new customers at taxpayers expense is a windfall for someone.
 

Slew Foot

Lifer
Sep 22, 2005
12,379
96
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im pretty sure that the bill will be mired in courts long enough for republicans to reclaim power in WA and then destroy it.
 

DesiPower

Lifer
Nov 22, 2008
15,299
740
126
very difficult to say, depends upon what else is piled up on it do accelerate the downfall, like amnesty for "undocumented aliens"
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,709
6,266
126
It seems the groundwork to make the argument has begun. Of course it'll just be more BS, but that's what happens when people choose to ignore Reality and instead stick to Failed Ideology.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
We should know before year is out with all the states suing it will receive a fast track to SC. Besides that the numbers don't work. Just wait until business reacts like they always do unlike CBO government models created in vacuum of them doing nothing.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
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Damn. Self-reinforcing wingnut circle jerk, ver. 80217.3, with more features- more doom and gloom, more raving, more feeling sorry for themselves, more denial.

I thought we'd already tanked the economy with "self regulated" banking, private equity asset stripping, hedge fund fol-de-rol and offshoring as many jobs as possible... and whatever other forms of looting that the financial elite can dream up... not to mention wars of adventure and endless occupations...

I mean, uhh, how can you kill a zombie, anyhow?
 

Patranus

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2007
9,280
0
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Well, just look at the Caterpillar estimates.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what might happen.
 

Mxylplyx

Diamond Member
Mar 21, 2007
4,197
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This country has been on the verge of imploding for the duration of the 5 years I've been frequenting this forum. There is no way any politician will have the stones to repeal this bill after it is signed into law. All the media has to do is show one shot of a child with leukemia that might lose their coverage, and any politician would instantly fold. Another pillar of the social contract between the American people and it's government has been erected, and like every other, it is impossible to undo.
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,057
67
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How long before the health care bill brings down the economy?

Your thread title is presumptuous and unsubstantiated so the answer to your question is a resounding, "HUH???," although "Say WHAT???" would also be appropriate. :rolleyes:
 
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Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
136
If it was a liberal, you could shoot him with facts.

Like what- Iraqi WMD's? No child left behind? Ownership Society?

Or the obvious- that Righties are desperate to find somebody to blame other than themselves for what they've wrought?
 

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,492
3,163
136
My neighbor kid, a little 3 year old, came over yesterday and said "I did a poopie in my pants".
As I did with my neighbor kid, I suggest we smile and ignored this thread.
 

heyheybooboo

Diamond Member
Jun 29, 2007
6,278
0
0
Being that:

As of June, 2009 - Social Security has an unfunded liability of $28 trillion dollars.

You forgot to add that the unfunded liability projects over 75 years, and that the accumulated GDP (at 2&#37; growth) over that time is in excess of $2,650 trillion.

So.

A combination of raising the age limit, indexing benefits, and extending the 'cap' which relates to less than 1% of GDP will bring SS into full actuarial compliance.

Especially when you consider the fund is owed around $3 trillion.





--
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,268
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Your thread title is presumptuous and unsubstantiated so the answer to your question is a resounding, "HUH???," although "Say WHAT???" would also be appropriate. :rolleyes:


I won't say that this will bring the economy down, but this was handled in about as foolish a way as possible. It's crafted by, of and for politicians.

Hell, the politicians in my state are perfectly content to let people die who HAVE insurance, but through their own hubris and lack of understanding have not yet corrected this situation. Why should they? Who's going to fire a whole political machine? No one.

I haven't seen nearly as much effort to get it right as to just get something, anything, and anything is what the took.

If the Dems wanted health care reform they could have had it much easier, but it was like watching clowns tumbling out of a car tripping over each other.

Sorry but I wanted health care reform. The Dems just wanted a feather in their cap and the Reps wanted to keep them from getting it. The public be damned.

The thing of it is once the government takes control, it rarely admits it's mistakes. It will just make another Medicaid (which they expanded without reform) out of this.

A serious question Harvey. When we were young, the left questioned authority. Now they embrace it. Nothing has changed, but the willingness of too many to follow the leader. There is no opposition to the acquisition of power now. The Reps have been that way, and now the Dems. To be sure, it's over different things, but the love they show for their masters bothers me, and yes that is exactly how it seems to me.

This could have been something special. Now it's just a lever for votes on both sides.