Hezbollah won because they don't care about 'their people'. To them, a Lebanese citizen is better dead than alive. Just like Hamas and Palestinians. It's sickening. The more of their innocents dead, the better off they are.
Haha, Hezbollah don't care about their ppl but they are the first to start reconstruction in lebanon. Israel love humanity, but they are the one bombing the heck out of lebanon.
I love ur logic.
Lemon law
Lifer
- Nov 6, 2005
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Have you lost your mind Aisengard?
Let me see if I have this right--- Hezbollah made Israel kill all those people in Beruit---and destroy all that property all the way North to the Syrian border---when the only offensive threat was a 18 mile strip in South Lebanon. At the same time Isreal just had to kill about 150 Palistinians who had not done anything in the gaza strip?---just to remind them they were still in bondage and best not get any ideas!
What you are saying is that Israel has a right to steal and kill----and if any dare fight back---Israel has a right to kill anyone in the vicinity--regardless of guilt or innocence.
Its called a double standard where I come from---and in the whole world over also.
Israel did not have to over react------it ain't the devil made me do it defense----Israel did it because they thought they could get away with it.---and did not.
Earth to Ainengard---please report to the nearest deprogramming center---you have been brainwashed with Israeli propaganda.---once you are cured you can join many of us who realise that both sides are in the wrong---not just one.
Let me see if I have this right--- Hezbollah made Israel kill all those people in Beruit---and destroy all that property all the way North to the Syrian border---when the only offensive threat was a 18 mile strip in South Lebanon. At the same time Isreal just had to kill about 150 Palistinians who had not done anything in the gaza strip?---just to remind them they were still in bondage and best not get any ideas!
What you are saying is that Israel has a right to steal and kill----and if any dare fight back---Israel has a right to kill anyone in the vicinity--regardless of guilt or innocence.
Its called a double standard where I come from---and in the whole world over also.
Israel did not have to over react------it ain't the devil made me do it defense----Israel did it because they thought they could get away with it.---and did not.
Earth to Ainengard---please report to the nearest deprogramming center---you have been brainwashed with Israeli propaganda.---once you are cured you can join many of us who realise that both sides are in the wrong---not just one.
Face it, 'humanitarian' groups don't start wars. Imagine how much face they'd lose if they DIDN'T do this? Hamas does this too, but all they've ultimately done is bring poverty to their people. It's not a one-sided coin, like you'd so like it to be.
Jaskalas
Lifer
- Jun 23, 2004
- 33,896
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Hizbollah started a war, Hizbollah hid among its people to watch them die so it could convince the UN to protect it from Israel. Now it will rebuild the homes to gain more power and to control more of the country.
The people are nothing but a pawn to use to win the war in the long run. The tactic is more brilliant than I typically give anyone in the Middle East credit for.
The people living within the borders of Israel will definitely all loose big time in the end.
All the Israeli military accomplished against the 250,000,000 Muslims in the region is the creation of thousands of orphans who lost one or both parents, parents who lost one or more children and brothers and sisters who lost brothers and sisters. If you are in the USA, think about what you would do if Canada or Mexico bombed your neighborhood or the road you happened to be driving on, with cluster bombs.
Israel's hijacked military basicly wiped out peaceful civilian and Hezbolah alike, with no effective prevention of "collateral damage". It was a very sloppy Israeli bombing campaign. Collateral damage on people and property in this 33 day war was horrific.
Israel accomplished nothing. 250,000,000 Muslims now have much less desire for peace.
Surely at least 1% of them (2.5 million) are now new radicalized jihadists in training preparing to arttack Israel in the future. Most of these are probably Muslims living in other Nations who watched the Israeli military attacks on Lebanon on television news reports. Remember, Arab television will show the exact opposite of what Faux News and CNN will broadcast. They will see the true carnage and also a large amount of propaganda that further doubles or quadruples the anger factor of Muslims.
Peace treaties are impossible now. Israel's Government has chosen war and so they are increasing the strength of their fortress Nation with walls and more weapons
Also, that whole Middle East Region looses in this religious war, in the areas that are covered now in a vast oil slick that is currently trashing the Mediterenean Seacoast. Because Israel foolishly blew up a huge oil storage reserve in Lebabon. Israel has commited an ecological war crime in addition to crimes against humanity in the use of cluster bombs on civvies and high tech experimental weapons that created weird corpses nobody has ever seen before.
All the Israeli military accomplished against the 250,000,000 Muslims in the region is the creation of thousands of orphans who lost one or both parents, parents who lost one or more children and brothers and sisters who lost brothers and sisters. If you are in the USA, think about what you would do if Canada or Mexico bombed your neighborhood or the road you happened to be driving on, with cluster bombs.
Israel's hijacked military basicly wiped out peaceful civilian and Hezbolah alike, with no effective prevention of "collateral damage". It was a very sloppy Israeli bombing campaign. Collateral damage on people and property in this 33 day war was horrific.
Israel accomplished nothing. 250,000,000 Muslims now have much less desire for peace.
Surely at least 1% of them (2.5 million) are now new radicalized jihadists in training preparing to arttack Israel in the future. Most of these are probably Muslims living in other Nations who watched the Israeli military attacks on Lebanon on television news reports. Remember, Arab television will show the exact opposite of what Faux News and CNN will broadcast. They will see the true carnage and also a large amount of propaganda that further doubles or quadruples the anger factor of Muslims.
Peace treaties are impossible now. Israel's Government has chosen war and so they are increasing the strength of their fortress Nation with walls and more weapons
Also, that whole Middle East Region looses in this religious war, in the areas that are covered now in a vast oil slick that is currently trashing the Mediterenean Seacoast. Because Israel foolishly blew up a huge oil storage reserve in Lebabon. Israel has commited an ecological war crime in addition to crimes against humanity in the use of cluster bombs on civvies and high tech experimental weapons that created weird corpses nobody has ever seen before.
Its quite the opposite. Hezbollah is more popular now than ever. The only army to defeat Israeli agression. The only army to stand up to defend itself. The only army with enough arab guts to challenge Israel and force them to retreat.
I think World opinion forced the bulk of that Israeli "retreat". The Israeli Military was much to sloppy in their attacks. You see Israel severely lacks man power. They don't have a huge army. What they do have they try to save from heavy ground fighting. So we saw a huge bombing campaign the likes of WWII. Swinging at tiny flies will sledge hammers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_active_troops
576.000 total troops is atleast 1000 times Hezbollah numbers.
What!!!:roll:
Rommel was out in the desert, but led the world on a merry game of at and Mouse. Desert warfare is NOT easy, even with air power. ADA can effectively shut down air power (if you have it).
The Iraqi military was NEVER a world power. They couldn't project outside of the ME if they wanted to. They had lots of ill-trained conscripts and antiquated weapons left over from the Vietnam era. The conscripts deserted at the least sign of trouble. They lost the gulf war because they brought a knife to a gun fight....period.
They had no support infrastucture, no defense versus United States Armor, or anti-armor. They had no air defense good enough to handle a Superpower, and morale was in the toilet (thus desertion was rampant). They couldn't even feed the troops in the field! Some surrendered just to be fed. Some surrendered to news reporters, and medics.
- Oct 30, 2000
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The difference is the Hezbollah had all their troops concentrated in one area. Israel did not commit the bulk of their forces.
This did not end up like the PLO route of the 80s.
The diplomats stepped in once they saw that Israel was willing to ratchet up the level of force.
Hezbollah did not defeat the Israel forces; they forced additioanl forces to be committed.
Before those forces couild engage, the truce was activated. The truce protected Hezbollah, not Israel. Where did Israel retreat? If Israel was retreating, then why would Hezbollah want the cessation of fighting.
Read the facts, not the propaganda.
- Oct 30, 2000
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Whether they were innocents is debatable. And outside this scope of discussion.
What Israel did was to show that they were not going to sit by and let there people be snatched without some type of retaliation.
Also, they determined that they needed a buffer zone to protect their northen border from such incidents.
On those issues, they succeeded.
There was never an intent to conquer/control Lebanon, just to get rid of the rats in the southern area.
And the the truce guidelines "should" accomplish that for a while if they are enforced.
Hezbollah as a social entity was doing good. The same as Hamas. However, their good deeds swelled their egos and allowed them to halucinate that they were smarter than their opponent.
- Oct 30, 2000
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It would depend if you wish to believe the propaganda that was being put out and also look at the logical assesment of the facts.
1) Israel was able to push up to the river.
2) Lebanon (which was at a minimum) influenced by Hezbollah was unable/unwilling to intervene.
3) It was not Israel that wanted the truce. It is almost always the loser in a conflict that crys Uncle and wants the pain to stop.
4) As long as the UN/Lebanon will safe the designated area, it will not matter if Hezbollah was weakened much.
5) Hezbollah expended a large amount of munitions and some of their resupply lines have been disrupted.
Not fact, but observation
6) Even though Israel may catch some of the blame for the destruction; others will realize the Hezbollah was the one that triggered the situation. I have talked to a 3-4 Lebanonse people this past week that were there visiting family during the conflict. None of them were blaming Israel for the results. Now with them being in the US, they may have a different viewpoint; however, I would think that their families would have some influence on opinions.
& as far as your other question goes.
Israel's air force would beat the Arab air force. I'm not saying Israel won't lose any planes. They will probably lose a handful, but Israel will def have at least 2-1 kill ratio.
when their air forces are destroyed Israel can go around taking out the tanks, but of course by the time that happens oil will be $400 a barrel.. the world is going crazy ... and Israel is going to be a disaster from all the rocket attacks so they will nuke the Arabs.
You need to remember that if Israel didn't have a military the Arabs would destroy them.
Remember Saddam? His military was dangerous. Thank the mighty powers above us that the Gulf War happened and the U.S put a stop to that. Saddam's pre Gulf War military was mighty indeed. Saddam was just simply an idiot, yay.
Israel's air force would beat the Arab air force. I'm not saying Israel won't lose any planes. They will probably lose a handful, but Israel will def have at least 2-1 kill ratio.
when their air forces are destroyed Israel can go around taking out the tanks, but of course by the time that happens oil will be $400 a barrel.. the world is going crazy ... and Israel is going to be a disaster from all the rocket attacks so they will nuke the Arabs.
You need to remember that if Israel didn't have a military the Arabs would destroy them.
Remember Saddam? His military was dangerous. Thank the mighty powers above us that the Gulf War happened and the U.S put a stop to that. Saddam's pre Gulf War military was mighty indeed. Saddam was just simply an idiot, yay.
Heh, you and you people's argument on how Hezbollah hid among the people is really getting old. Yeah they hid among the people, that's how every guerrilla group in the know human history fight, but Israel have absolute control on hitting that missile launch button. Israel is the one who made the decisions to bomb airport, road and hospitals. Israel is the one who made the decision to attack civilian targets that displaced million.
They have absolute control over what kind of response is needed over 2 kidnapped and 3 killed soldiers. They are the ones who decided to take all the actions, and they are the ones that caused all the destructions.
But hey, if you are kinda guy who would believe British when they said American rebels were responsible when British burning down all these villages, guess I cannot convince you otherwise.
America fought Israel's war and is now paying heavily for it both financially and militarily. The middle east is in sh!t right now. Another stupid move may cause a full blown war. Arab countries, Iran, Pakistan would all get involved in someway. In return, America would come to Israel's help which may just cause China to invade Taiwan, North Korea bomb South Korea and Japan since the US will be involved elsewhere. Russia will look to establish its say in the region. India will take advantage if Pakistan does get dragged in. And in the end everyone would be a loser. Atleast we would see where Europe's loyalty lies. And thats why I think an attack on Iran would be very very dangerous.
Bush has made the world the most dangerous since the Cold War.
Originally posted by: The Green Bean
America fought Israel's war and is now paying heavily for it both financially and militarily. The middle east is in sh!t right now. Another stupid move may cause a full blown war. Arab countries, Iran, Pakistan would all get involved in someway. In return, America would come to Israel's help which may just cause China to invade Taiwan, North Korea bomb South Korea and Japan since the US will be involved elsewhere. Russia will look to establish its say in the region. India will take advantage if Pakistan does get dragged in. And in the end everyone would be a loser. Atleast we would see where Europe's loyalty lies. And thats why I think an attack on Iran would be very very dangerous.
Bush has made the world the most dangerous since the Cold War.
I thought 9/11 was what made the world more dangerous...
Maybe you haven't noticed but there aren't many nations foolish enough to attempt a conventional force invasion of any country. Two of the most recent examples, US/Iraq and Israel/Lebanon, demonstrate why that's the case. You have to be arrogant and ignorant . . . considering the likelihood of 'winning' is remote.
Lemon law
Lifer
- Nov 6, 2005
- 20,984
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Its one thing to talk about fighting in a total desert type envoronment---where your side has tanks on the ground and total domination of the air---which is what the USA had in Gulf war one. US tanks moving a a fairly good clip could shoot at and hit the Iraqi tank outside of the range the Iraqi tank could even shoot a shell.
But the battleground in Southern Lebanon was not total barren waste---you have trees, terrain that restricts and funnels movement of heavy equipment, rocks, caves, and all that makes it difficult to see much from the air---and aids the defender---and in the last big war we were in and lost--Vietnam---a dense jungle tree canopy allowed the enemy to sneak very close without being seen.----------the IDF was overconfident---and paid for it----but will be very unlikely to repeat that mistake in future.---nor will Hezbollah fail to learn either.
But the offensive battleground nightmare of every military commander is urban street fighting---where the enemy knows all the alleys and streets---and you are going in blind.
Even with vastly superior technology---the odds favors the defenders.---and even if you blow the buildings up---the rubble then makes excellent hiding places for the dug in defenders.
To occupy something is one thing----to hold it is another thing-----in early 1942---after executing a surpise attack on Peal harbor--the world changed---all of the Eastern Pacific Ocean shortly thereafter became a Japanese lake south to Australia---and nothing moved on that lake without the permission of the Japanese. Three years later, the picture changed as a rather enraged USA had them chased back to their home Islands---and what was left unsunk of the Japanese fleet was out of oil and useless.
Israel stole Palistinian land in 1948 and more arab land later---holding it will be another thing.----this recent planned Israeli offensive was simply another day in which the world changed.-------and the terrain implies the tactics.
But the battleground in Southern Lebanon was not total barren waste---you have trees, terrain that restricts and funnels movement of heavy equipment, rocks, caves, and all that makes it difficult to see much from the air---and aids the defender---and in the last big war we were in and lost--Vietnam---a dense jungle tree canopy allowed the enemy to sneak very close without being seen.----------the IDF was overconfident---and paid for it----but will be very unlikely to repeat that mistake in future.---nor will Hezbollah fail to learn either.
But the offensive battleground nightmare of every military commander is urban street fighting---where the enemy knows all the alleys and streets---and you are going in blind.
Even with vastly superior technology---the odds favors the defenders.---and even if you blow the buildings up---the rubble then makes excellent hiding places for the dug in defenders.
To occupy something is one thing----to hold it is another thing-----in early 1942---after executing a surpise attack on Peal harbor--the world changed---all of the Eastern Pacific Ocean shortly thereafter became a Japanese lake south to Australia---and nothing moved on that lake without the permission of the Japanese. Three years later, the picture changed as a rather enraged USA had them chased back to their home Islands---and what was left unsunk of the Japanese fleet was out of oil and useless.
Israel stole Palistinian land in 1948 and more arab land later---holding it will be another thing.----this recent planned Israeli offensive was simply another day in which the world changed.-------and the terrain implies the tactics.
- Oct 30, 2000
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You did reasonable in your first four paragraphs.
Then you lost it in the last.
How can land be considered to be stolen when you are attacked and then win & conquer the treacherous enemy.
The US left VN; the conflict was not "won" due to political will, not due to military losses.
Much also has to due with the rules of engagement. When the rules handicap you, much effort is wasted.
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