how is the price on a playstaion (and others) unit not price fixing or illegal?

iam4u2nv

Senior member
Mar 13, 2000
813
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I was wondering this today. I want to get my son a PS2 for Christmas because I sold his other PS2 because he said he did not want it. Ok I know.. bad move. Now he wants one more than anything. Well I call every store in the whole friggin state and they sell for 199.
I look at all the websites I can find and they all sell for 199.
I store claimed to have them for 169 but it was backordered for like six weeks or something.
How is this not price fixing?
Where is the competition. I do not like this at all.
I also see XBox is the same way.. and hmmm so is Gamecube.


As usual if this is a repost please do not tell me, just pass by it.
Thank you in advance.
 

spaceman

Lifer
Dec 4, 2000
17,616
175
106
buy him a refurb unit for 169.
as for the price fixing, dont have an answer there..
perhaps places dont get discounts for purchasing mass quantities and the profit margin is slim as it is?

:confused:



if you look hard enough you can find them as low as $120-$140...pawnshop,video rental store etc.
u may have to sniff one out,my advice is get a refurb with a warranty from eb.they'll have plenty and just be picky when buying the unit.ask how many they have,and get the pick of the litter.



edit: oR you could be shady and hang out in the mall outside an eb or gamestop until you see someone walking in with a trade in unit,offer to match them in cash for store credit which is probably around $100.
:Q
 
Apr 5, 2000
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Price fixing violates federal and state laws. Please tell me how selling a PS2 @ $199 is price fixing. It's a suggested MSRP by the manufacturer - why sell it for less when everyone else sells it for $199?
 

iam4u2nv

Senior member
Mar 13, 2000
813
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Many many things have MSRP's on them but do to competition the prices fall and you can shop around. Sony among others says sell this unit for 199 and all stores do. Even long after the unit price dropped you can not find a new unit for under 199.
why sell it for less when everyone else sells it for $199
This is what capitalism is based on.. selling it for less so people will buy it from YOU. Hello?
Everything goes this way. Here is an example of how this is different. I go to BestBuy and I say Compusa has this drive for 129 can you beat that price. They say yes or no depending but often I can get a better price.
I ask on Playstation 2 and the man says "I am sorry but we can not sell that unit for less than 199"
Hmmm how strange, We can not sell for less.. why?
 

isildur

Golden Member
Jan 3, 2001
1,509
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Guys, this answer isn't all that hard - price fixing is not applicable here because you are talking about a single vendor selling a proprietary product. The retail outlets agree to Sony's pricing setup in echange for the right to sell sony's product.

"Price fixing" refers to when a group of companies who produce interchangable products get together and agree not to sell any of their units below a certain price.

E.g. if all the cereal companies got together and decided that _nobody_ would sell breakfast cereal for less than $10/box.

 
Apr 5, 2000
13,256
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This is what capitalism is based on.. selling it for less so people will buy it from YOU. Hello?
Everything goes this way. Here is an example of how this is different. I go to BestBuy and I say Compusa has this drive for 129 can you beat that price. They say yes or no depending but often I can get a better price.
I ask on Playstation 2 and the man says "I am sorry but we can not sell that unit for less than 199"
Hmmm how strange, We can not sell for less.. why?

So you're telling me CompUSA actually sold it for $129 and this example actually happened? The salesperson CAN'T sell you something under the listed price without a manager overriding it. And how much do you think the stores actually buy the PS2s for? Huh? $50? $25? $1? I'm guessing near $150.

You talk about capitalism - if everyone is already buying it from you, why sell it for less? Stores on Yahoo are no-name stores who HAVE to draw attention to themselves to get people to buy stuff from them. Would you ever hear of a store called Yahoo! GamesExpressSuperStoreXboxPS2GamecubeGBADreamcastblahblah if they didn't have a PS2 for under $199? Hell no. BB, CC, and CompUSA all can sell it for $199 because everyone knows about those stores. It's not like no one has ever heard of those stores and no one is buying PS2/XBox/GC. Simple economics states the equilibrium price is where quantity demanded = quantity supplied. $199 is pretty much an equilibrium price. I don't know a single person who wants either a GC, PS2, or XBox that can't afford one at that price. At $150 or $100 it'd be a shortage, wouldn't you think? Everyone I know would go out and buy one that day if the price dropped to $100.

Many many things have MSRP's on them but do to competition the prices fall and you can shop around. Sony among others says sell this unit for 199 and all stores do. Even long after the unit price dropped you can not find a new unit for under 199.

Long after? The price drop happened at E3, a couple months ago. You talk about competition - Sony dropped the price from $299 to $199 MSRP - forcing Nintendo and Microsoft to drop their prices on their respective consoles. Why would stores drop their prices even lower when the respective consoles just dropped their prices $100 and $50 respectively?
 

XZeroII

Lifer
Jun 30, 2001
12,572
0
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Originally posted by: RagingBITCH
This is what capitalism is based on.. selling it for less so people will buy it from YOU. Hello?
Everything goes this way. Here is an example of how this is different. I go to BestBuy and I say Compusa has this drive for 129 can you beat that price. They say yes or no depending but often I can get a better price.
I ask on Playstation 2 and the man says "I am sorry but we can not sell that unit for less than 199"
Hmmm how strange, We can not sell for less.. why?

So you're telling me CompUSA actually sold it for $129 and this example actually happened? The salesperson CAN'T sell you something under the listed price without a manager overriding it. And how much do you think the stores actually buy the PS2s for? Huh? $50? $25? $1? I'm guessing near $150.

You talk about capitalism - if everyone is already buying it from you, why sell it for less? Stores on Yahoo are no-name stores who HAVE to draw attention to themselves to get people to buy stuff from them. Would you ever hear of a store called Yahoo! GamesExpressSuperStoreXboxPS2GamecubeGBADreamcastblahblah if they didn't have a PS2 for under $199? Hell no. BB, CC, and CompUSA all can sell it for $199 because everyone knows about those stores. It's not like no one has ever heard of those stores and no one is buying PS2/XBox/GC. Simple economics states the equilibrium price is where quantity demanded = quantity supplied. $199 is pretty much an equilibrium price. I don't know a single person who wants either a GC, PS2, or XBox that can't afford one at that price. At $150 or $100 it'd be a shortage, wouldn't you think? Everyone I know would go out and buy one that day if the price dropped to $100.

Many many things have MSRP's on them but do to competition the prices fall and you can shop around. Sony among others says sell this unit for 199 and all stores do. Even long after the unit price dropped you can not find a new unit for under 199.

Long after? The price drop happened at E3, a couple months ago. You talk about competition - Sony dropped the price from $299 to $199 MSRP - forcing Nintendo and Microsoft to drop their prices on their respective consoles. Why would stores drop their prices even lower when the respective consoles just dropped their prices $100 and $50 respectively?


Actually, Microsoft decided to cut the price of the xbox, and a week before it was scheduled to drop Sony just came out of the blue and cut the price of theirs. But you are correct, there is competition and stores will sell it for what people will pay for it.
 

Jzero

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
18,834
1
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A stable market is a natural phenomenon.
Price Fixing is when a bunch of people get together and decide to keep the price high.
If every retailer agreed to jack up the price, that would be price fixing.
Every retailer just sticking with the same price on their own (and that price isn't all that high, I might add), isn't price fixing.

I rarely see market items selling for under MSRP in B&M stores, even if I ask. This is a console, and consoles don't have huge profit margins padded into the price.
We're not talking about cars or houses here, and I don't think the PFY working at EB would even understand the concept of bargaining.
 

iam4u2nv

Senior member
Mar 13, 2000
813
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Nope I do it all the time. I go to bestbuy and compusa and pit them against each other to get the best price. To be specific 129 was the price of a hard drive I was looking at, not Playstation. I have been waiting for Playstation prices to drop again but they will not... they do not have to.
I looked at Geforce 4 video cards a while back. I found them from 250 to 450 and I ended up picking up a card for 250 online. Now I see the same cards for less than that even.. they are dropping. Not Playstation.. no drop anywhere, not even online that I can find.

By the way in pitting companies against each other I even do this in car shopping. I go to say 10 dealers and tell them the best price I got another dealer and they beat it or tell me that was the best. It takes me longer to get something but I save money.
 

iam4u2nv

Senior member
Mar 13, 2000
813
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Is there another item that you can think of that is the same price no matter where you look...?
Any item at all.
I can not.
Maybe it is not price fixing but I can not understand why no one has this item for less than 199. NO ONE
I am just whining because I can not use my usual method of getting a better price. I am bothered by the fact that I am stuck with 199 no matter where I go. I could buy used but I do not want used.
I just find it troubling that this price is set this way.
I am crying and sharing my cries with others. I guess I am wrong on this but I just like to find better prices and I can not.
:( <----- Me sorry. I like competition and I use it to my advantage in most cases.
 

Gunbuster

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,852
23
81
Markup on the PS2 console is ~1-2%
They dont make money on it, keeping the lights and heat on cost more

games, extended warrantys and accessories are what make sony and the store profit
 

isildur

Golden Member
Jan 3, 2001
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:D

I would have to look around to make sure, but I would suspect that this happens with relative frequency when you are talking about a powerhouse like Sony and high profile products like the PS2.

They are big enough to insist on compliance from their vendors, so they do so. <shrug>

Why not go used? Provided the thing hasn't been dropped down the stairs, it should be fine. I've bought mine on release day, its still kickin just fine and I pack it up and take it places all the time.


Comparing the lack of ps2 price drop to a pc component? <roll>

Come on - the gf4 is only the "card to have" for about 6 months and, if nvidia could get off their duffs, they would have replaced it already. Thus, the price of the card MUST drop to keep anyone buying it, as it no longer resides on top of the food chain. The market there moves MUCH more quickly than the console market.
 

mpitts

Lifer
Jun 9, 2000
14,732
1
81
It is a profit issue, like Gunbuster said.

There is VERY LITTLE markup on consoles (if any). Retail outlets don't make money from selling the consoles. They are hoping that you will be buying accessories (huge markup) and games (some markup) from them as well. It is one of those situations where they can't afford not to sell them, but make very little money from them.

It is not price fixing. I am sure that these stores can sell the consoles for any price they want. I deal with a rep at PC Connection all the time. I was looking for an Xbox and she is happy to give me a very nice discount on items I buy for my personal use. She told me that I could save $5 by buying from her and that was it. No markup, she said.
 

Mister T

Diamond Member
Feb 25, 2000
3,439
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0
It is a supply and demand issue...

Because there is demand at 199, a store has no incentive to charge less.
 

Yzzim

Lifer
Feb 13, 2000
11,990
1
76
Jump over to the FS/FT forum and if you have some patience you could find a PS2 with a couple games for probably ~$200
 

AU Tiger

Diamond Member
Dec 26, 1999
4,280
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The PS2, Xbox, and Gamecube are sold just like Apple sells their products. If a store wants the right to sell them, they have to have to sell it for X amount of dollars. That is why you will see Best Buy offer free gifts with the $199 PS2, but not the PS2 for less than $199. Sony would pull the PS2 from Best Buy if they were sold for less.
 

iam4u2nv

Senior member
Mar 13, 2000
813
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Originally posted by: AU Tiger
The PS2, Xbox, and Gamecube are sold just like Apple sells their products. If a store wants the right to sell them, they have to have to sell it for X amount of dollars. That is why you will see Best Buy offer free gifts with the $199 PS2, but not the PS2 for less than $199. Sony would pull the PS2 from Best Buy if they were sold for less.


Yep only difference is PS2 units do not suck so they are unlike apple :)

BOOHOO :( I want new and I want to pay less than 199.
I even lost out on E-Bay at less than 199... (sobs loudly)
:)

 

Jzero

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
18,834
1
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By the way in pitting companies against each other I even do this in car shopping. I go to say 10 dealers and tell them the best price I got another dealer and they beat it or tell me that was the best. It takes me longer to get something but I save money.

See my post above.
Cars have profits padded into the price. Even the INVOICE price still has a few percent profit rolled into it. Cars are one of the few things in America that you can bargain and haggle on. Most B&M retail stores I go to, unless they have a specific price match policy, when I ask them if they can match a competitor's price, they always say "No, go buy it from them."

Is there another item that you can think of that is the same price no matter where you look...?
I can never find WizKids figures (MageKnight/MechWarrior/HeroClix) for less than retail unless I buy them in bulk.

That's just one thing off the top of my head.
 

stev0

Diamond Member
Dec 9, 2001
5,132
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Originally posted by: Gunbuster
Markup on the PS2 console is ~1-2%
They dont make money on it, keeping the lights and heat on cost more

games, extended warrantys and accessories are what make sony and the store profit

yea.. the store is probably only making 10 bucks off the sale of a console, if that... it's all those extended warrenties where they make their money, and those cheesy madcats accessories.

price fixing?
rolleye.gif
 

iam4u2nv

Senior member
Mar 13, 2000
813
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price fixing?

Ok so I am no lawyer. The act of company telling another company that they must charge a certain or the item will be pulled is .... ?

I do not know. I think it is wrong otherwise. Printers.. ok my local HP rep tells me the Inkjet line earns his company like 5 or 10 bucks for each one sold and he hates them. I can still find 10 different prices on them if I look and he darn well knows it. He knows I can buy 200 970's from him or anyone else so I get the best price he can give me.

oh and also, I am a buyer not a retailer.. I do not care if the store earns money.
rolleye.gif
 

stev0

Diamond Member
Dec 9, 2001
5,132
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Originally posted by: iam4u2nv
price fixing?

Ok so I am no lawyer. The act of company telling another company that they must charge a certain or the item will be pulled is .... ?

I do not know. I think it is wrong otherwise. Printers.. ok my local HP rep tells me the Inkjet line earns his company like 5 or 10 bucks for each one sold and he hates them. I can still find 10 different prices on them if I look and he darn well knows it. He knows I can buy 200 970's from him or anyone else so I get the best price he can give me.

oh and also, I am a buyer not a retailer.. I do not care if the store earns money.
rolleye.gif

well printers are a little different the a gaming console. for what it (ps2/xbox) does, and can do, 199 is fairly reasonable. if your really bent out of shape on spending 199, hit up ebay, for 199 to 250 you could pick up a ps2, memory cards, controllers and a plethora of games.
 

iam4u2nv

Senior member
Mar 13, 2000
813
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0
I am just whining because I can not use my usual method of getting a better price

I already stated I am just wimpering and crying. I will stop but I still think it is wrong.
I am in the minority on this for sure but I wonder this. If you people all over the country do not mind being force fed a paticular price, why doesn't every industry and every company use the same tatic. Hell I would... it seems to work great. I would be set for life at a guaranteed income because no one could pay me less for my items. With no competition I do not have to worry about my customer finding it somewhere else.
 

Jzero

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
18,834
1
0
oh and also, I am a buyer not a retailer.. I do not care if the store earns money.
rolleye.gif
Well seeing as the store isn't going to sell you much if they can't make money, you probably should.

You have some entitlement issues.

Think of it this way, hypothetical situation:
You shopped around EVERYWHERE for a new PS2, and guess what! YOU FOUND THE BEST PRICE!
And the best price is $199.

You wouldn't complain because Gamestop had it for $250, but you found it at EB for $199, even though you are paying the same price as you would for real?

This is just about believing you have a choice, right?
 

iam4u2nv

Senior member
Mar 13, 2000
813
0
0
Originally posted by: stev0
Originally posted by: iam4u2nv
price fixing?

Ok so I am no lawyer. The act of company telling another company that they must charge a certain or the item will be pulled is .... ?

I do not know. I think it is wrong otherwise. Printers.. ok my local HP rep tells me the Inkjet line earns his company like 5 or 10 bucks for each one sold and he hates them. I can still find 10 different prices on them if I look and he darn well knows it. He knows I can buy 200 970's from him or anyone else so I get the best price he can give me.

oh and also, I am a buyer not a retailer.. I do not care if the store earns money.
rolleye.gif

well printers are a little different the a gaming console. for what it (ps2/xbox) does, and can do, 199 is fairly reasonable. if your really bent out of shape on spending 199, hit up ebay, for 199 to 250 you could pick up a ps2, memory cards, controllers and a plethora of games.


No really bent.. I just wondered this on my way into work and I decided to post it. I love to argue and as I stated earlier I never know when to quit. I am done.. sorry.
My wife and I once had an argument that lasted 10 years..
ok ok it is still not settled but I am right darnit. :)