How is affirmative action even legal?

[her209]

We asked him! He transferred over from another department.

So what is this INROADS you were referring to in the OP? And you said you heard,... now you say asked him (within 2 hours of posting OP btw)?

I hear they filled the position through INROADS. The guy doesn't have a programming background, but still got the job simply because he was a minority.

 

[Linflas]

So what is this INROADS you were referring to in the OP? And you said you heard,... now you say asked him (within 2 hours of posting OP btw)?

INROADS

 

[finglobes]

In a couple decades the minority will be the majority, I wonder if AA will still apply.

The bizzare thing is how Hispanics and white women got in on something that was supposed to be about repairing damage to blacks via slavery, Jim Crow etc. Affirmative Action was basically just a way to wage war on US culture and devised by radical left - the same gang that came up with Cloward Piven. Letting illegals swamp the system is the same thing.


Consider that the US will have illegals who broke to the country who will get AA jobs that not only rob whites but blacks. Libs moved illegals and homosexuals ahead of blacks who have been hung out to dry by Obama. I blame white people for a lot of the problem because they are so whipped its sad. One cross word from a black person and the average university miseducated soccer mom is reduced to quivering jelly.

 

[Svnla]

OP, which minority was that guy? and did he have a bachelor degree? (since you said you have one).

 

[davmat787]

When the drum circle is over, expect a crowd to come in and tell almost everyone in this thread how bigoted they are.

OP, am I to understand that the new hire will become your manager?

 

[1prophet]

I've been an intern at my company for three months. When I started, one of the programmers told me he was leaving and that I need to apply for his job (I have a bachelor's). He told me this up until his last day.

I started asking my boss and told him I'd be interested in filling his spot. Every time I asked, boss said he didn't know what was going on with that. Then, the other day at lunch, I hear they filled the position through INROADS. The guy doesn't have a programming background, but still got the job simply because he was a minority.

If that's not racism, I don't know what is. Lol, double standards FTW.


Moved from OT

ATOT Moderator ElFenix

Companies think guys like you are a dime a dozen, time to move on even if it means moving out, tell your boss there is a guy by the name of John Galt that would be more than happy to fill your shoes. :sneaky:

 

[senseamp]

Seems like this inroads thing is an internship program, while the OP is referring to a full time job. Was the other candidate also an intern who got promoted?
Anyways, I've learned there is no point in whining about work, if you are good enough, you can find a better job elsewhere, and if you aren't you should be happy with the one you got.

 

[CycloWizard]

Affirmative Action is legal because it is the law. The nice thing about laws is that they don't have to make sense. Once you let go of the notion that laws should make sense, things as they are now will become much more clear.

 

[shira]

I've been an intern at my company for three months. When I started, one of the programmers told me he was leaving and that I need to apply for his job (I have a bachelor's). He told me this up until his last day.

I started asking my boss and told him I'd be interested in filling his spot. Every time I asked, boss said he didn't know what was going on with that. Then, the other day at lunch, I hear they filled the position through INROADS. The guy doesn't have a programming background, but still got the job simply because he was a minority.

If that's not racism, I don't know what is. Lol, double standards FTW.


Moved from OT

ATOT Moderator ElFenix

Of course, it's impossible that the fellow who got the job was a better candidate than you. It's impossible that your boss thinks your job performance is mediocre. No, the only possibility is racism.

 

[RocksteadyDotNet]

Just be happy you're white.

I'd rather give up an arm than become another race. Especially a real low one like Indian or Pakistani or something.

 

[Craig234]

News flash for some: the country has a 300+ year history of discriminating against blacks in particular.

Second news flash: the effects of that history didn't disappear overnight when discrimination was outlawed. Disadvantage from that history continued many places.

Whites the last century advanced. Compare yourself to your ancestors. Blacks were held back from that. Leaving them clustered in segregated neighborhoods, poverty, etc.

If nothing is done but 'non-discrimination', the history of that discrimination could last for many decades at least. Maybe centuries.

Look at a company with 95% of blacks at the bottom, 5% doing a little better, because of that history; when is that suddenly 'color blind' and more equally distributed?

So there's an idea that becoming more 'color blind' can, when these situations are found of great inequality from past discrimination, need some artificial adjustment to counter the artificial discrimination that got to the inequality. The idea is that there are positions where a black person might be 'qualified', but not the 'best qualified' because of that history, and that artificially helping the black person can lead to jump starting the undoing of some of that history.

This white who loses the position is disadvantaged at that time - but he's also likely greatly advantaged from generations of generations for the black being held down.

The white might like to just ignore that and forget it and say 'keep the effects of that racism for hundreds of years that helps me going'.

He's probably not aware of that advantage he has.

Question is whether you want to perpetuate the effects of racism, or have more equality.

Can affirmative action be misused, overdone? Sure.

Save234

 

[CycloWizard]

News flash for some: the country has a 300+ year history of discriminating against blacks in particular.

Second news flash: the effects of that history didn't disappear overnight when discrimination was outlawed. Disadvantage from that history continued many places.

Whites the last century advanced. Compare yourself to your ancestors. Blacks were held back from that. Leaving them clustered in segregated neighborhoods, poverty, etc.

If nothing is done but 'non-discrimination', the history of that discrimination could last for many decades at least. Maybe centuries.

Look at a company with 95% of blacks at the bottom, 5% doing a little better, because of that history; when is that suddenly 'color blind' and more equally distributed?

So there's an idea that becoming more 'color blind' can, when these situations are found of great inequality from past discrimination, need some artificial adjustment to counter the artificial discrimination that got to the inequality. The idea is that there are positions where a black person might be 'qualified', but not the 'best qualified' because of that history, and that artificially helping the black person can lead to jump starting the undoing of some of that history.

This white who loses the position is disadvantaged at that time - but he's also likely greatly advantaged from generations of generations for the black being held down.

The white might like to just ignore that and forget it and say 'keep the effects of that racism for hundreds of years that helps me going'.

He's probably not aware of that advantage he has.

Question is whether you want to perpetuate the effects of racism, or have more equality.

Can affirmative action be misused, overdone? Sure.

Save234

So it's not racist to give one race a direct benefit at the expense of another solely because of race? Just want to make sure we're on the same page here.

 

[nonlnear]

So it's not racist to give one race a direct benefit at the expense of another solely because of race? Just want to make sure we're on the same page here.

The point Craig is trying to make is that discrimination is not a priori a bad thing. It is discrimination against an oppressed class that is bad.

Of course, how that gets spun out into specific policy preferences (and even how the definitions are parsed) is where political views diverge...

 

[Craig234]

The point Craig is trying to make is that discrimination is not a priori a bad thing. It is discrimination against an oppressed class that is bad.

Of course, how that gets spun out into specific policy preferences (and even how the definitions are parsed) is where political views diverge...

I wish that were where political view diverge. I have no problem with that debate.

It's the people who totally dismiss any issue existing that are the problem.

 

[MotF Bane]

The point Craig is trying to make is that discrimination is not a priori a bad thing. It is discrimination against an oppressed class that is bad.

Of course, how that gets spun out into specific policy preferences (and even how the definitions are parsed) is where political views diverge...

Do you even listen to yourself?

 

[nonlnear]

Do you even listen to yourself?

I was paraphrasing Craig. Also, depending on how one defines discrimination and an oppressed class, that statement can mean completely opposite things to different people. I didn't say how I interpret it myself. I suspect Craig and I have different definitions of both terms. Don't be so quick to jump on me for making a statement when you aren't sure how I interpret it myself.

If you think there is something paradoxical or somehow contradictory about the bolded statement, lay out a case. How are you defining the term discrimination, and what do you feel constitutes an oppressed class? Some people would say anyone who is discriminated against is oppressed, which leads to a convenient automatic paradox. (Convenient in that it saves the person the hassle of considering a different opinion.) The problem is this definition collapses to being totally useless upon observing reality. After all, everyone discriminates all the time. The only way to avoid this simple fact is to assume it away a priori by saying something like "people are rational" or some other such gobbledygook.

 

[airdata]

Affirmative action is a horrible idea to begin with. When it was started, it may have been with good intentions.

Since then however, we've come a very long way as a country. If there was a legitimate need for affirmative action in the past, there is no longer that need.

It sucks that you were passed up for a promotion by a lesser qualified person because they simply belong to another race... it's complete BS.

This is a fun AA storyline :

WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court hears arguments today in a Connecticut firefighters' civil rights case that has the potential to change hiring practices nationwide.
The court will weigh whether New Haven's decision to scrap a promotion exam because too few minorities passed violates the civil rights of top-scoring white applicants.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,517448,00.html#ixzz1QrDDTJ2b
​

​

 

[pcgeek11]

"Affirmative Action" is actually Discrimination. No matter how much they try to dress it up.

 

[BladeVenom]

Do you know what's better than getting a job because of affirmative action?
Not being a minority.

They can move to another country where they are the majority.

 

[CycloWizard]

I wish that were where political view diverge. I have no problem with that debate.

It's the people who totally dismiss any issue existing that are the problem.

So your argument is that institutionalized discrimination is great, as long as it's against specific groups and in favor of others based on stereotypical characterizations of each group through history? It's impossible to discriminate for one group without discriminating against another.

 

[piasabird]

Just sue them. If they hire someone with no experience then that is just discrimination. I think companies who use external agencies to do the hiring are only doing so to avoid the law suit. If they had a vacancy they should have posted it or something.

My sister works for an oil company and then the company asks for references for jobs and then they just hire more white guys. This is a different type of a thing, but this is typical for employers. Half the time it is relatives or friends that get hired, not real people.

 

[JS80]

Just be happy you're white.

I'd rather give up an arm than become another race. Especially a real low one like Indian or Pakistani or something.

lolaustralians

 

[jhu]

As a minority, it didn't help me at all. Nepotism, OTOH, that helps a lot. hehe... Actually, that didn't help either.

 

[Svnla]

As a minority, it didn't help me at all. Nepotism, OTOH, that helps a lot. hehe... Actually, that didn't help either.

Hummmm, you are the wrong kind of minority. :awe:

 

[Venix]

Of course, it's impossible that the fellow who got the job was a better candidate than you. It's impossible that your boss thinks your job performance is mediocre. No, the only possibility is racism.

That was my thought as well. In my experience, an intelligent candidate from a different field is almost always a better long term choice than a mediocre in-field candidate.

But even if the guy sucks, there are plenty of reasons he could have been hired besides "affirmative action." Maybe his daddy plays golf with the CEO. Maybe he sucked off the hiring manager. Maybe he's just a great bullshitter.