How I'd Setup Health Insurance

[thehstrybean]

I seriously heard the best health insurance plan ever. From a HS student:

The gov't sets the limit of how much health insurance everyone should have. Everyone then gets a health-IRA (a tax-free box that can ONLY be used for health costs). A worker and their boss both contribute 7% of said person's income until they hit the limit, then the worker can contribute whatever they want. The cool thing? You can pass it on, so say that I'm healthy and don't need to go to the doctor. I can pass it to my kids and they have a leg to start on. This means that you're not paying for uber-insurance when you only get colds. You pay for what you need, and you have a box that you can take that costs out of.

And it provides incentive. The harder you work, the more you get put into your health-IRA...

The student looked at Germany (where they have something like this, but the doctors aren't paid all the well, so they're coming to America, which means fewer doctors have more patients = lower quality of care), and Canada...This was a mix of the two.

So, what do you think?

 

[nickbits]

Unless I misread what you are saying that isn't insurance, it's a savings plan and it already exists (minus the employer contribution), it's called a flexible spending account. The purpose of insurance is to protect you when you have a problem, if you "passed it on", you are SOL.

 

[pstylesss]

That's called a Health Savings Account and there is no reason for the government to be involved.

 

[rudeguy]

Originally posted by: ZeroIQ
That's called a Health Savings Account and there is no reason for the government to be involved.

This

The gubment has bigger issues than health care for people that already have insurance.

 

[Slew Foot]

Not only is that perhaps the dumbest thing Ive heard in a while (since reading amdhunters thread), as other have posted, something similar already exists. The problem with government mandating insurance for people to buy is that insurance companies have free reign to raise their prices since they know you have to buy the product (see Massachusetts and their recent plan). Your plan provides a means for people to save, but doesnt provide for any cost savings.

 

[Bignate603]

And what happens if you get sick before you have a chance to build up what you need to cover the illness? You may be completely responsible, working hard, and just out of school but end up with something big like cancer. You just won't have enough to cover it. Heck, even if you work your whole life you may not be able to amass enough to cover a transplant. It will work for most but there are some illnesses that a normal person can't cover alone.

The typical insurance scheme where everyone pays in and gets back what they need is a system that works. While you may not need back what you pay in you're paying for the safety that it's there if you need it.

 

[cKGunslinger]

- Create some Government-owned hospitals that offer affordable procedures.
- Offer to pay 100% of a newly-graduated doctor's school loans if he works for one of the above hospitals for X years, with a modest salary, but nothing extravagant.
- Watch as price-gouging private hospitals lose profit and either
- - a) raise prices, increasing insurance costs, causing more people to use gov's facilities
- - b) lower prices

 

[thehstrybean]

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
Not only is that perhaps the dumbest thing Ive heard in a while (since reading amdhunters thread), as other have posted, something similar already exists. The problem with government mandating insurance for people to buy is that insurance companies have free reign to raise their prices since they know you have to buy the product (see Massachusetts and their recent plan). Your plan provides a means for people to save, but doesnt provide for any cost savings.

Well, the way I looked at it was the government just says how much you need to have, and it's up to the individual to pick what insurance they want. I saw that as creating competition which should result in lower prices...just my thoughts...I posted that to see what other people thought...wasn't really my idea...

 

[nageov3t]

I was in the hospital for 1 day over the holidays because of dehydration... the total cost for my not even 24-hour stay? $12,000.

I'm normally a pretty healthy person and that would have completely wiped me out without insurance... savings is all well and good, but what happens when you come down with something where the medical bills can run into the hundreds of thousands of dollars?

if someone doesn't want insurance as it is, there's nothing stopping them from opting out of ther employee's plan and putting 10% of their paycheck into savings instead.

 

[Bignate603]

Originally posted by: loki8481
I was in the hospital for 1 day over the holidays because of dehydration... the total cost for my not even 24-hour stay? $12,000.

I'm normally a pretty healthy person and that would have completely wiped me out without insurance... savings is all well and good, but what happens when you come down with something where the medical bills can run into the hundreds of thousands of dollars?

Also, because the insurance companies are large they can negotiate rates that you can't get yourself. While you may get a bill for $12k the insurance might pay 3/4 to 1/2 of that.

 

[TheVrolok]

Originally posted by: Bignate603

Originally posted by: loki8481
I was in the hospital for 1 day over the holidays because of dehydration... the total cost for my not even 24-hour stay? $12,000.

I'm normally a pretty healthy person and that would have completely wiped me out without insurance... savings is all well and good, but what happens when you come down with something where the medical bills can run into the hundreds of thousands of dollars?

Also, because the insurance companies are large they can negotiate rates that you can't get yourself. While you may get a bill for $12k the insurance might pay 3/4 to 1/2 of that.

If even that.

 

[ElFenix]

medical care.

if you wanted health care you'd put down the cheeseburger and go for a run. but no, you want a pill that accomplishes the same end.

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
- Create some Government-owned hospitals that offer affordable procedures.
- Offer to pay 100% of a newly-graduated doctor's school loans if he works for one of the above hospitals for X years, with a modest salary, but nothing extravagant.
- Watch as price-gouging private hospitals lose profit and either
- - a) raise prices, increasing insurance costs, causing more people to use gov's facilities
- - b) lower prices

there are lots of city-owned hospitals. they're not the problem. in fact, a lot of them lose tons of money. and good luck getting the doctors' union to go along with reducing their pay. all you'd really accomplish is shifting more money into the hands of the med schools. are you even aware that the hospitals don't employ the doctors?

 

[TheVrolok]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
medical care.

if you wanted health care you'd put down the cheeseburger and go for a run. but no, you want a pill that accomplishes the same end.

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
- Create some Government-owned hospitals that offer affordable procedures.
- Offer to pay 100% of a newly-graduated doctor's school loans if he works for one of the above hospitals for X years, with a modest salary, but nothing extravagant.
- Watch as price-gouging private hospitals lose profit and either
- - a) raise prices, increasing insurance costs, causing more people to use gov's facilities
- - b) lower prices

there are lots of city-owned hospitals. they're not the problem. in fact, a lot of them lose tons of money. and good luck getting the doctors' union to go along with reducing their pay. all you'd really accomplish is shifting more money into the hands of the med schools. are you even aware that the hospitals don't employ the doctors?

Some do.

 

[Ballatician]

Learn about some of the best regarded healthcare systems in comparison to ours.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/...ne/sickaroundtheworld/

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: TheVrolok

Originally posted by: ElFenix
medical care.

if you wanted health care you'd put down the cheeseburger and go for a run. but no, you want a pill that accomplishes the same end.

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
- Create some Government-owned hospitals that offer affordable procedures.
- Offer to pay 100% of a newly-graduated doctor's school loans if he works for one of the above hospitals for X years, with a modest salary, but nothing extravagant.
- Watch as price-gouging private hospitals lose profit and either
- - a) raise prices, increasing insurance costs, causing more people to use gov's facilities
- - b) lower prices

there are lots of city-owned hospitals. they're not the problem. in fact, a lot of them lose tons of money. and good luck getting the doctors' union to go along with reducing their pay. all you'd really accomplish is shifting more money into the hands of the med schools. are you even aware that the hospitals don't employ the doctors?

Some do.

only those that are owned by doctors can, in most states. so you get some large professional corporations that own clinics. but for the most part, hospitals are owned by churches, cities, universities, and insurance companies, and if there is a corporate practice of medicine law, they do not employ the doctors.

state by state review
CA, NY, TX, OH, FL all have various prohibitions against corporations employing doctors. that's like half the population of the US right there.

 

[erub]

Originally posted by: loki8481
I was in the hospital for 1 day over the holidays because of dehydration... the total cost for my not even 24-hour stay? $12,000.

I'm normally a pretty healthy person and that would have completely wiped me out without insurance... savings is all well and good, but what happens when you come down with something where the medical bills can run into the hundreds of thousands of dollars?

if someone doesn't want insurance as it is, there's nothing stopping them from opting out of ther employee's plan and putting 10% of their paycheck into savings instead.

My employer requires you to buy a plan. The plan is highly customizable, a minimum of $4/month (up to $56). Either that, or force you to prove you have outside coverage thru a spouse/parent. Of course, if you are only paying $4/month, you have a $750 deductible, high copays, etc. They are investing in their employees, they dont want us to not be able to afford to go to the doctor.

 

[OverVolt]

The main problem is preventive care. The total cost of a health problem is reduced when proper care happens as ealy as possible.

Whats happening is a poor person who can't afford basic care gets a bacterial infection. Which could have probably been cured easily with a doctor visit. Instead it manifests into a full blown hospitalization, which that person cannot even hope to pay. The cost is then passed on to people with health insurance or who can afford it out of pocket.

If the government controlled healthcare, it would have an actual financial interest in preventative care, where as private health care would not.

 

[Mo0o]

There's no way a family can cover catastrophic medical needs with this kind of savings plan alone. You need to spread the money across an entire population or at least a large enough subpopulation so that the healthy can fund the sick. In this kind of system, you're going to pay up teh ass because you can negotiate for lower rates, which insurance companies can.

Maybe you should finish HS before giving health policy advice

 

[0roo0roo]

tax the fat..tax the fat ...tax the fat!

 

[OverVolt]

Originally posted by: Mo0o
There's no way a family can cover catastrophic medical needs with this kind of savings plan alone. You need to spread the money across an entire population or at least a large enough subpopulation so that the healthy can fund the sick. In this kind of system, you're going to pay up teh ass because you can negotiate for lower rates, which insurance companies can.

Maybe you should finish HS before giving health policy advice

Health costs are only inflated because of the overhead on caring for people who can't pay. Nothing is really off limits for them either.

 

[Mo0o]

Originally posted by: OverVolt

Originally posted by: Mo0o
There's no way a family can cover catastrophic medical needs with this kind of savings plan alone. You need to spread the money across an entire population or at least a large enough subpopulation so that the healthy can fund the sick. In this kind of system, you're going to pay up teh ass because you can negotiate for lower rates, which insurance companies can.

Maybe you should finish HS before giving health policy advice

Health costs are only inflated because of the overhead on caring for people who can't pay. Nothing is really off limits for them either.

That's a totally false statement. Uninsured individuals receive much less healthcare than those with insurance. Hospitals might be bound by law to stabilize you for an acute sitaution, but they're not obligated to go beyond that. Yes, they can increase overall costs but much more of teh overhead comes from dealing with insurance (aka people who technically can pay).

 

[xSauronx]

Originally posted by: loki8481
I was in the hospital for 1 day over the holidays because of dehydration... the total cost for my not even 24-hour stay? $12,000.

hell i dont have insurance and went to the hospital over the holidays: $2400

talk about screwed.

 

[Amused]

The way to fix health-care is to ban insurance completely except catastrophic coverage (used to be "major medical").

Force doctors and hospitals to charge what the market can bear, and NOT the maximum allowed by insurance.

 

[freegeeks]

Originally posted by: Ballatician
Learn about some of the best regarded healthcare systems in comparison to ours.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/...ne/sickaroundtheworld/

the interviews with the different specialist should be mandatory reading for everyone discussing healthcare.

There is no such thing as a perfect system, but they all seem to agree that the US system is broken and that the US public is getting a bad deal. It also dispels myths like "The USA is paying for the rest of the world".


good read :thumbsup:

 

[AnnonUSA]

The Health care problem is cost. Period.

National health care will never work in this country because without controlling prices and costs, it simply will bankrupt the country in less than 2 years.

There are many issues. In a country founded on capitalism, and the entrepreneurial spirit, how do we tell a company how much they can charge for a product? (i.e.- drug or medical equipment?) Can we limit profits for certain Items? Certain companies? How do we limit what Doctors can charge for procedures? How much money will Doctors be "Allowed" to make? How will we limit liability of Drug makers and Doctors to protct them from lawyers and malpractice suits?

How can we or should we? Add to the mix that the government has a tendency to screw up a wet dream, and it becomes apparent they will not get this right. Like the Bush enacted Medicare reforms, that had a provision that made it illegal for the government to negotiate pricing with drug makers for meds purchased by the program. (the Government buying in quantity is exactly why they should be allowed to bargain for price).

There are many bugs preventing health care reforms in the USA.
One possible idea is for the Government to buy doctors. The Government program would find experienced doctors, willing to work within the program, for a fixed rate of compensation, (read lower) and in return they could be given major tax breaks (reduced or no income taxes) and Governmental type retirement packages, with an agreement to remain in the program, even transitioning them to teaching new Doctors as they become too old or unable to practice. New doctors could be recruited from Medical schools with a commitment of x number of years service to the program, for fixed pay, and the Government would pay their student loans and Medical school loans, a sizable nut for a new doctor to repay when starting a new practice.

Of course all this would be nothing without serious limits on malpractice suits, and substantial price/cost negotiating power with pharmaceutical companies and medical equipment providers.

Even with a program like this, the costs may just be too high. But to just believe we can enact national health care and expect it to pay for itself is just a joke.