How have your beliefs changed?

[CellarDoor]

I'm sure there was a post like this before, but I was just wondering how many people have done a complete 180 on a certain issue and what that issue might be. This would be interesting to me. There is no need to attack a person's beliefs in this thread, seeing as how everybody does it in all the other threads as well. I'd just like to see how many people have changed.

Oh, and if there is another thread like this, could somebody direct me to it and have this thread subsequently locked. Thanks!

 

[DealMonkey]

I was actually thinking about this at length the other day. I really feel I've become more moderate on some of the issues. I'm also more willing to listen and discuss vs. freaking out and yelling all the time.

(I'm sure someone will probably disagree with that assessment)

 

[Grunt03]

four years ago I thought that there would be a light at the end of the tunnel,
I have recently discovered that as far as retirement goes there is no light. What used to be a light at the end has since been converted to a glow in the dark stain.............

 

[aswedc]

i supported bush in 2000 and now i dont, but that didnt have anything to do with this forum.

sorry for lower case this keyboard is broken...

 

[CellarDoor]

Originally posted by: aswedc
i supported bush in 2000 and now i dont, but that didnt have anything to do with this forum.

sorry for lower case this keyboard is broken...

It doesn't have to be something that changed based on the forum, any change on any issue is interesting to see! Thanks for sharing.

 

[MoFunk]

I have not changed at all. I have participated some, but mainly just look around. A lot of things that I felt were justified in this board.

 

[Gaard]

I don't think any of my beliefs have changed all that much.

One thing that is different...I didn't vote for Bush in 2000 but I really didn't think bad of the man. He just had differing views than I did. Now the differing views are secondary; I voted against him in 2004 mainly because he, and those around him, I feel are corrupt people and should not be charged with running this country.

 

[Cerb]

I have realized how much of a lefty I really am. Not a commie lefty, though.

However, I have had a few other realizations totally separate from P&N that clearly color my views. Even a small amount of time beyind the confines of this world, connected to something greater, has given me hope (not of anything political, don't worry about that!) and despair, and a perspective I had lost, that had been causing my overall health to go down the tubes.

 

[TheBDB]

I've become more socially liberal and fiscally moderate. Or maybe the current admin has moved exactly opposite.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
I was actually thinking about this at length the other day. I really feel I've become more moderate on some of the issues. I'm also more willing to listen and discuss vs. freaking out and yelling all the time.

(I'm sure someone will probably disagree with that assessment)

More moderate as in you've decided to take off your hammer and sickle arm-band when throwing fake blood on fur-wearing rich old ladies?

jk

My views didn't change until about four years ago from 7 months from now...and there they really only changed against my views of the rest of the world, specifically the UN, the middle east, etc. Probably really only just "hardened" the more appropriate word. The neocon aspect.

Other than that, I'm still very fiscally conservative/libertarian, very socially liberal in the libertarian sense, and morally semi-conservative but don't believe it should override #1 or #2.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
I was actually thinking about this at length the other day. I really feel I've become more moderate on some of the issues. I'm also more willing to listen and discuss vs. freaking out and yelling all the time.

(I'm sure someone will probably disagree with that assessment)

More moderate as in you've decided to take off your hammer and sickle arm-band when throwing fake blood on fur-wearing rich old ladies?

jk

See, I just knew it! heh, heh, good one at my expense.

My views didn't change until about four years ago from 7 months from now...and there they really only changed against my views of the rest of the world, specifically the UN, the middle east, etc. Probably really only just "hardened" the more appropriate word. The neocon aspect.

Other than that, I'm still very fiscally conservative/libertarian, very socially liberal in the libertarian sense, and morally semi-conservative but don't believe it should override #1 or #2.

That's interesting that you consider yourself "socially liberal" and "morally semi-conservative" -- how do you differentiate the two categories? Like you're cool with gay people but you don't think they should get married? Or more like, you enjoy the porn, but you beat yourself up psychologically for watching it?

 

[EagleKeeper]

I have come to realize that there are rear-end of donkeys on both ends of the spectrum.

However, the ones that want to destroy and critize when on the outside looking in are the worst.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
I was actually thinking about this at length the other day. I really feel I've become more moderate on some of the issues. I'm also more willing to listen and discuss vs. freaking out and yelling all the time.

(I'm sure someone will probably disagree with that assessment)

More moderate as in you've decided to take off your hammer and sickle arm-band when throwing fake blood on fur-wearing rich old ladies?

jk

See, I just knew it! heh, heh, good one at my expense.

My views didn't change until about four years ago from 7 months from now...and there they really only changed against my views of the rest of the world, specifically the UN, the middle east, etc. Probably really only just "hardened" the more appropriate word. The neocon aspect.

Other than that, I'm still very fiscally conservative/libertarian, very socially liberal in the libertarian sense, and morally semi-conservative but don't believe it should override #1 or #2.

That's interesting that you consider yourself "socially liberal" and "morally semi-conservative" -- how do you differentiate the two categories? Like you're cool with gay people but you don't think they should get married? Or more like, you enjoy the porn, but you beat yourself up psychologically for watching it?

OK that made me LOL.

Let's see - yes, I'm "cool" with gay people, but I don't think they should be granted special protections, nor should they have laws passed "against" them (i.e. anti sodomy laws). I believe that many cases of being gay are caused by social factors, but acknowledge that some may be some genetic anomoly.

I view pron simply as a facillitator/accelerator I'd rather have the real thing with my wife, but that's not always possible. And well, you gotta relieve the boiler pressure now and again.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

I haven't changed much. Deepened my values and beliefs in certain areas and moderated in some others. Nothing changed too much though. I have taken on new areas of debate though where I just took my position for granted before. I've definitely "greened" a bit more as I've gained knowledge in energy and other "green" areas. I've stated here before that I think I'm probably the most "green" "right-winger" I've ever met. You won't get me to bend on "global warming" yet because there are just too many unknowns - yet I advocate responsible use of resources and forward looking policies/practices.

CsG

 

[Stunt]

I've been quite thankful for my involvement in this forum, it has opened my mind to far different views than i am exposed to. Canada is very liberal in it's mindset. Oddly enough here i tend to be a Progressive Conservative (as right as they come up here), but on this forum i'd say i'm a right leaning democrat. (at least until the reps become fiscally responsible and socially liberal)

To make note of a few that have influenced me the most,
Rabidmongoose for helping me realize my patriotism (which is quite common south of the border and tends to be counter productive from what is see now)
CanOWorms for taking a more critical look at europe but at the same time not waving the american flag at every turn. Also allowing me to critique the monarch's role in my country.
Cyclowizard for helping me to see the other side of the abortion coin that i've never seen before. I have never met a well informed pro-lifer here. (in canada)
Dissipate for opening me up to a whole new system, shich doesnt rely on the status quo (outside the box thinking if you will), still not even close to being sold on it.

The biggest thing i love about these forums and keeps me coming back is that everybody here is relatively smart and opinions are justified for the most part. Even on the most simple of issues, both sides can be correct. When i came here i had a more antibush attitude coming from a liberal region, university campus, young generation. But finding out why policies are derived, what is trying to be accomplished, and why people feel that way really helps me find where i stand on the issues...not how 'the group feels'. I find here on campus, i am defending bush most of the time as the misperceptions here are horrible. Ask anyone WHY they hate him and they have very weak points and reasoning. Basically i get to flip flop when north and south of the 49th

As a final comment, all of us are interested in politics and we all realize there are many different belief systems, positions, and opinions. I really admire the forum members who are able to stand up and speak out against the party they support. Cuz to be honest, the likelihood that ur mind is directly parallel to one of two parties is next to impossible. It is these posters (i consider myself one - as progressing one party or another doesnt affect me) that really help progress these forums.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
I haven't changed much. Deepened my values and beliefs in certain areas and moderated in some others. Nothing changed too much though. I have taken on new areas of debate though where I just took my position for granted before. I've definitely "greened" a bit more as I've gained knowledge in energy and other "green" areas. I've stated here before that I think I'm probably the most "green" "right-winger" I've ever met. You won't get me to bend on "global warming" yet because there are just too many unknowns - yet I advocate responsible use of resources and forward looking policies/practices.

CsG

No way - I'm more of a green right-wing hippie than you are!

examples:
- I eat organic mostly. I eat sprouted wheat bread - beat that!
- I have all flourescent bulbs in the house, with a few rare exceptions (can't find the little tiny ceiling fan ones)
- My wife had a home birth, my kids wore cloth diapers, and were breast fed till they quit
- Very conservationist/anti-pollution
etc.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
I haven't changed much. Deepened my values and beliefs in certain areas and moderated in some others. Nothing changed too much though. I have taken on new areas of debate though where I just took my position for granted before. I've definitely "greened" a bit more as I've gained knowledge in energy and other "green" areas. I've stated here before that I think I'm probably the most "green" "right-winger" I've ever met. You won't get me to bend on "global warming" yet because there are just too many unknowns - yet I advocate responsible use of resources and forward looking policies/practices.

CsG

No way - I'm more of a green right-wing hippie than you are!

examples:
- I eat organic mostly. I eat sprouted wheat bread - beat that!
- I have all flourescent bulbs in the house, with a few rare exceptions (can't find the little tiny ceiling fan ones)
- My wife had a home birth, my kids wore cloth diapers, and were breast fed till they quit
- Very conservationist/anti-pollution
etc.

Heh! Let us know when you start composting, recycling, wearing your pants low and w/o a belt, strap on some birkenstocks and when you finally purchase that Prius! Go Gaia, go!

(OMG, I can almost picture it! )

 

[CycloWizard]

I didn't know the first thing about politics when I started here, and now I think I know more than I ever wanted to - kind of sours my outlook on hope for the future due to the ridiculous level of lies and corruption at every level (regardless of the party in charge). I've also become acutely aware (particularly recently) that both sides have their fair share of hypocrisy built in to their viewpoints, though many of them have helf these positions so long that they don't see it.

I've definitely changed my mind with regard to socialist economics. I was dead set against them when I started here, but it didn't take long for the new perspective to kick in and demonstrate quite a few ways that it is genuinely beneficial. Now I understand that both private and government agencies are really needed to tackle the related problems.

I've realized that social issues are the real hot topic, even moreso than I previously realized. I'm also amazed at how uninformed everyone here is on some social issues - even the most simplistic arguments. I know I put much more time into researching and thinking about this area than most, and I took ethics/philosophy classes in lieu of economics classes (which is why I know just about zilch with respect to economics), but I would have expected at least a couple people here to be more well-informed in this area, particularly based on how knowledgeable most people here are in every other area (read: much more than myself).

All in all, it's definitely been a learning experience. I've learned that there is another side to the coin on many issues that I didn't previously. I've come to realize that some issues are all or nothing. More importantly, I've realized that these two sides are not necessarily mutually exclusive on many issues, despite what the R's and D's might try to tell me.

 

[raildogg]

In 2000, I was against Bush. Now I support him cautiously.

I was against the Iraq war, but after really thinking about it, now I'm for it.

I used to be a real left winger, now I have somewhat moved to the center.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: raildogg
I was against the Iraq war, but after really thinking about it, now I'm for it.

I respect the ppl on this forum who supported the war and now feel as though they were misguided realizing it was expensive and on false justifications (wmd) but continue with their hopes for the nation they supported an attack on.

But why in the hell are you supporting it now?!...it's costing $200,000,000,000+ and why not invade the other 50+ countries with dictators and few freedoms and rights?

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: raildogg
I was against the Iraq war, but after really thinking about it, now I'm for it.

I respect the ppl on this forum who supported the war and now feel as though they were misguided realizing it was expensive and on false justifications (wmd) but continue with their hopes for the nation they supported an attack on.

But why in the hell are you supporting it now?!...it's costing $200,000,000,000+ and why not invade the other 50+ countries with dictators and few freedoms and rights?

heh, we're not done yet that's why.

if anything I've gone farther to the right after reading posts here.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: spidey07
if anything I've gone farther to the right after reading posts here.

Define right: right fiscally, right on foriegn policy, right socially...there's a lot of rights, and most of them contradict each other...

large foriegn policy = money spent abroad not on reducing gov't/taxes
hard line on drugs/abortion/crimes = more lawsuits, more illegal operations and drugs, more money on anti-drug campaigns (big gov't)

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: raildogg
I was against the Iraq war, but after really thinking about it, now I'm for it.

I respect the ppl on this forum who supported the war and now feel as though they were misguided realizing it was expensive and on false justifications (wmd) but continue with their hopes for the nation they supported an attack on.

But why in the hell are you supporting it now?!...it's costing $200,000,000,000+ and why not invade the other 50+ countries with dictators and few freedoms and rights?

Listen to what Joseph Lieberman has to say, the man who stands alone in the demican party. This guy is one of the few sane democrats left and is honest as politicians come. He was for the war and still is.

Freedom has no costs. Our long term interests have no costs. Iraq was unique, our intelligence had stated for many years that Saddam continues to pursue WMD's and has many stockpiles. Clinton even said so.

A free Iraq is in our interests for our long term goals, maybe for the short term it isn't so sweet. Look what we have now: A Iraq where elections were held, pretty soon they'll elect a leader. This is the foundation of a democracy. A democracy in the mideast and the first democracy among the Arab nations.

When they other people look at Iraq, they'll want democracy and freedom too. The naysayers don't care about this, all they want to do is bring Bush down.

And lastly, the children who were imprisoned are free. The rape rooms are empty. The evil sons of Saddam are dead.

According to a lot of analysts and me included, the WMD's were moved to Syria just prior to the invasion. We'll just have to topple Syria to make sure if they went there. Remember, its going to take 1 minute to completely destroy the Syrian military but we'll never achieve peace there.

We have Iran surrounded. Elections in Afghanistan for the first time, elections in Iraq for the first time. Great job Mr. Bush.

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: Stunt
I respect the ppl on this forum who supported the war and now feel as though they were misguided realizing it was expensive and on false justifications (wmd) but continue with their hopes for the nation they supported an attack on.

But why in the hell are you supporting it now?!...it's costing $200,000,000,000+ and why not invade the other 50+ countries with dictators and few freedoms and rights?

Iraq was selected for a few reasons, IMO:
1 - State sponsor of terror, even if not al Qaeda (Saddam sent moneys to the families of Palestinian suicide bombers) - made a good excuse after 9/11
2 - They had a substantial military (at least on paper - 6th biggest in the world), so others would take notice if we toppled them
3 - Their 'substantial' military was weakened by the first Gulf War and years of sanctions, so we knew it would be child's play to take them out, but it would still seem impressive due to the on-paper strength
4 - We had war plans drawn up for such an action for more than 10 years, so a very impressive invasion could be waged for everyone to see
5 - Besides all of the WMD stuff, there was plenty of humanitarian cause to lend credence to the invasion after the fact

Combining all of the above factors, it seemed like a good shot for us to topple one 'powerful' country very impressively to intimidate everyone else into going along with us and stopping support for terrorism (or whatever else ails you). In essence, I see it as a collosal gamble - bet the farm on Iraq in hopes that you won't have to pay out for the rest of eternity dealing with these other nations.

That's how I see it, anyway. I don't know, nor will I ever, whether or not Bush and Co ever really thought Iraq had WMD, nor what would have happened had we not invaded. After all is said and done, some things went much better than I ever thought possible, others not so much, but the proof is in the pudding - we don't know the resolution just yet.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
I haven't changed much. Deepened my values and beliefs in certain areas and moderated in some others. Nothing changed too much though. I have taken on new areas of debate though where I just took my position for granted before. I've definitely "greened" a bit more as I've gained knowledge in energy and other "green" areas. I've stated here before that I think I'm probably the most "green" "right-winger" I've ever met. You won't get me to bend on "global warming" yet because there are just too many unknowns - yet I advocate responsible use of resources and forward looking policies/practices.

CsG

No way - I'm more of a green right-wing hippie than you are!

examples:
- I eat organic mostly. I eat sprouted wheat bread - beat that!
- I have all flourescent bulbs in the house, with a few rare exceptions (can't find the little tiny ceiling fan ones)
- My wife had a home birth, my kids wore cloth diapers, and were breast fed till they quit
- Very conservationist/anti-pollution
etc.

Aha! I have florescent tiny ceiling fan bulbs! Me=teh winnar!
Oh, and you aren't a "right-winger" anyway- you're just a recent convert who has carried over some "hippie-ness"
Pssttt - get some

CsG