How hard is it to make money investing,trading,etc

[imported_Tango]

Originally posted by: stockriderman
How's forex a scam? Isn't it second to Nasdaq???

It's the largest market in the world. It's also the hardest to play in.

As someone who has been getting his money mostly from trading for all his life, my advice is: stay away from it. It looks like a game, but it is not. I have seen many, many smart people destroying a fortune in a very short time. The questions you ask clearly reflect the fact that you know nothing about financial markets and (no offense) people without proper knowledge you'd only lose money.

If you are really serious about becoming a trader, read and study (a lot) about financial analysis and economics, then pick a market you feel you could understand more than the others and to at least one year of mock-trading. Record your gains and losses.

If you are doing good, remember tha with real money the game is harder. Develop a strategy. Remember that a strategy might look good for quite a long period and make you poor in one week when the tide turns and you fail to see it. Look at what happened to Amaranth Fund.

If after all this you still feel like doing it, the go ahead. Start with very small amounts and trade long-only. Focus on something you know and understand. Use 90% financial analysis and maximum 10% technical analysis. 0% Technical analysis is even better...

If you really feel you like it at that point, go ahead and join a proprietary trading firm: training on the job is simply the only way to get consistent, constant returns.

Enjoy

 

[theslickvik]

Really got to know what to invest in. If you dont have the time dont bother because you'll cry seeing your hard earned dinero go down the drain. If you have the time money and will i would say start by putting some money into a good CD and make the max contribution to your 401(k). Start thinking about retirement because before you know it you'll be there.

 

[Nerva]

Originally posted by: stockriderman

Originally posted by: cchen

Originally posted by: stockriderman
How's forex a scam? Isn't it second to Nasdaq???

please stop asking about things you have no idea about.

Well,it seems you know even less about it than me.

Forex market is the largest and most liquid market in the world.The investor's goal in Forex trading is to profit from foreign currency movements.

I don't know what scams you are into,but you should do some research on this. Is Nasdaq a scam? I don't think so...

... where did you copy and paste that from? i believe cchen is either in investment banking or management/strategic consulting? which makes him more financially savvy than someone who's just asked for a way to turn 10k into 50k in a year.

 

[Nerva]

Originally posted by: Tango

Originally posted by: stockriderman
How's forex a scam? Isn't it second to Nasdaq???

It's the largest market in the world. It's also the hardest to play in.

As someone who has been getting his money mostly from trading for all his life, my advice is: stay away from it. It looks like a game, but it is not. I have seen many, many smart people destroying a fortune in a very short time. The questions you ask clearly reflect the fact that you know nothing about financial markets and (no offense) people without proper knowledge you'd only lose money.

If you are really serious about becoming a trader, read and study (a lot) about financial analysis and economics, then pick a market you feel you could understand more than the others and to at least one year of mock-trading. Record your gains and losses.

If you are doing good, remember tha with real money the game is harder. Develop a strategy. Remember that a strategy might look good for quite a long period and make you poor in one week when the tide turns and you fail to see it. Look at what happened to Amaranth Fund.

If after all this you still feel like doing it, the go ahead. Start with very small amounts and trade long-only. Focus on something you know and understand. Use 90% financial analysis and maximum 10% technical analysis. 0% Technical analysis is even better...

If you really feel you like it at that point, go ahead and join a proprietary trading firm: training on the job is simply the only way to get consistent, constant returns.

Enjoy

not true in amaranth's case. all the other funds saw that they were in trouble and started to make opposite trades at least a month before.

 

[stockriderman]

Originally posted by: Tango

Originally posted by: stockriderman
How's forex a scam? Isn't it second to Nasdaq???

It's the largest market in the world. It's also the hardest to play in.

As someone who has been getting his money mostly from trading for all his life, my advice is: stay away from it. It looks like a game, but it is not. I have seen many, many smart people destroying a fortune in a very short time. The questions you ask clearly reflect the fact that you know nothing about financial markets and (no offense) people without proper knowledge you'd only lose money.

If you are really serious about becoming a trader, read and study (a lot) about financial analysis and economics, then pick a market you feel you could understand more than the others and to at least one year of mock-trading. Record your gains and losses.

If you are doing good, remember tha with real money the game is harder. Develop a strategy. Remember that a strategy might look good for quite a long period and make you poor in one week when the tide turns and you fail to see it. Look at what happened to Amaranth Fund.

If after all this you still feel like doing it, the go ahead. Start with very small amounts and trade long-only. Focus on something you know and understand. Use 90% financial analysis and maximum 10% technical analysis. 0% Technical analysis is even better...

If you really feel you like it at that point, go ahead and join a proprietary trading firm: training on the job is simply the only way to get consistent, constant returns.

Enjoy

Thanks...at least someone knows something!!
I'll just stay away. I had wrong perceptions about it.

 

[NogginBoink]

It is very easy to make money through investing.

It is very difficult (and very risky) to make money quickly through investing.

If your goal is a 400%+ return in <1 year, you need to educate yourself further. This thinking will lead you to the poorhouse.

Start at www.fool.com.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: NogginBoink
It is very easy to make money through investing.

It is very difficult (and very risky) to make money quickly through investing.

If your goal is a 400%+ return in <1 year, you need to educate yourself further. This thinking will lead you to the poorhouse.

Start at www.fool.com.

hehehehehe and by looking at his screen name, obviously a paid spam shill.

 

[NogginBoink]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: NogginBoink
It is very easy to make money through investing.

It is very difficult (and very risky) to make money quickly through investing.

If your goal is a 400%+ return in <1 year, you need to educate yourself further. This thinking will lead you to the poorhouse.

Start at www.fool.com.

hehehehehe and by looking at his screen name, obviously a paid spam shill.

Get real. The Motley Fool is a very practical beginner's investing site. I'm not affiliated with them in any way other than being one of their customers.

 

[Nerva]

Originally posted by: stockriderman

Originally posted by: Tango

Originally posted by: stockriderman
How's forex a scam? Isn't it second to Nasdaq???

It's the largest market in the world. It's also the hardest to play in.

As someone who has been getting his money mostly from trading for all his life, my advice is: stay away from it. It looks like a game, but it is not. I have seen many, many smart people destroying a fortune in a very short time. The questions you ask clearly reflect the fact that you know nothing about financial markets and (no offense) people without proper knowledge you'd only lose money.

If you are really serious about becoming a trader, read and study (a lot) about financial analysis and economics, then pick a market you feel you could understand more than the others and to at least one year of mock-trading. Record your gains and losses.

If you are doing good, remember tha with real money the game is harder. Develop a strategy. Remember that a strategy might look good for quite a long period and make you poor in one week when the tide turns and you fail to see it. Look at what happened to Amaranth Fund.

If after all this you still feel like doing it, the go ahead. Start with very small amounts and trade long-only. Focus on something you know and understand. Use 90% financial analysis and maximum 10% technical analysis. 0% Technical analysis is even better...

If you really feel you like it at that point, go ahead and join a proprietary trading firm: training on the job is simply the only way to get consistent, constant returns.

Enjoy

Thanks...at least someone knows something!!
I'll just stay away. I had wrong perceptions about it.

also be aware that it is really difficult to join a prop trading firm, you need to pass your 7/63.

i recommend getting a text book on valuation, it's not the bible but it will get you to think about how companies are valued. if you dont know excel, get to it know real well. most of the modelling done is in excel.

also read up on some behavioral finance to learn about some of the stupid things that plagues retail investors.

 

[hehatedme]

Originally posted by: 3cho

Originally posted by: cchen

Originally posted by: stockriderman
How's forex a scam? Isn't it second to Nasdaq???

please stop asking about things you have no idea about.

hahahahahahaha, well said.

seriously, the best of the best hedgefund had 52% return, and this was back in 97-98. to turn 10k into 50k in a year, you seriously have better luck playing blackjack than investing in the market.

also one thing to keep in mind, 10k isnt a lot of money where the high return funds will come knocking on your door. in fact, it's pretty far from being enough. what you need to do is just plant your two feet solidly on the ground, take your 8-10% post fee return from a mutual fund, and be happy.

You apparently don't know much either. There are plenty of hedgefunds that have returned higher than 52% and in more recent times.

 

[Nerva]

Originally posted by: hehatedme

Originally posted by: 3cho

Originally posted by: cchen

Originally posted by: stockriderman
How's forex a scam? Isn't it second to Nasdaq???

please stop asking about things you have no idea about.

hahahahahahaha, well said.

seriously, the best of the best hedgefund had 52% return, and this was back in 97-98. to turn 10k into 50k in a year, you seriously have better luck playing blackjack than investing in the market.

also one thing to keep in mind, 10k isnt a lot of money where the high return funds will come knocking on your door. in fact, it's pretty far from being enough. what you need to do is just plant your two feet solidly on the ground, take your 8-10% post fee return from a mutual fund, and be happy.

You apparently don't know much either. There are plenty of hedgefunds that have returned higher than 52% and in more recent times.

you obviously dont know which fund i was referring to, or else you would know that the reason i brought up this fund was because of the way it was run, it's strategies, and most importantly its people. i am willing to bet that there isn't a fund today that's as innovative as that fund in the haydays. so there.

 

[ahurtt]

You are 23. You have 10K to invest. If you can find something that returns around 10%, put it in there now and never ever withdrawl any of it. You can add to it if you ever have spare cash on hand but never take any out. Assuming you put only $10,000 in an investment now, thanks to the magic of compounding interest @ 10% annually, by the time you are 60 years old, that $10,000 will be $340,039.49. If you can scrounge up another $5000 now to make that initial investment $15,000, by the time you are 60 you have half a million dollars. Granted this assumes a constant return of 10%. By age 68, you would be a millionaire assuming you never withdrew any of your initial investment. . .ah but then along comes Uncle Sam. . .Or his Canadian brother whatever his name is.

 

[JEDI]

Originally posted by: stockriderman
I am 23. I make about 40K/year(about 20K after those canadian taxes...)
I was sitting the other night,checkign my email, thinking about my career and it's not going anywhere. Some spam came to my email with stock prices. It got me thinking.
How hard is it to start trading or investing. I know nothing about it. .I don't even know what people trade or invest in. Do people go to school for this? Are there any online courses I can take and start doing it? I have about $10K saved up and can use it for something to help me with my future. Can it be turned to say 50K in a year?
Any advice,thoughts,links,?

sure try it. you never know...

and if you fail, keep trying.

ie:
Michael Jordan was cut from his high school basetball team. Thankfully to us sports fans, he didnt quit

 

[crownjules]

A lot of people are scared of trading, and with good reason. Unless you know what you are doing, you run the very high risk of losing all the money you put into the attempt. You are 23 years old, however, and therefore you have a long life ahead of you in which you can make back anything that you lose. Your risk tolerance is a lot higher then that of a 40-something year old, but the potential reward is much higher for you. If you are successful, you have the capability of making much more in your lifetime then someone who is 40.

Trading is a lot like poker. A professional poker player would have a much better chance of making a good trader then some average joe pulled off the street. Why? Because they already possess two key skills that make a good trader: dealing in probabilities and risk management. No one can predict the markets 100%. But if you have a good system, you can be right a majority of the time. You know that when your system tells you to make a trade, it is probable, but not certain, that you will make money. If you put on a trade that turns against you, your risk management skills stop you from taking serious losses because at no time will you allow yourself to risk more then a certain percentage of your total bankroll. And you move on to take the next trade.

An earlier poster said to totally disregard technical analysis. Ignore that advice. That kind of thinking died with the 80s. Today, even the most fundamentally minded of fund managers use technical analysis in their work to some degree. They might not pull up graphs with the CCI, MACD, and Bollinger Bands on them, but they do analyze basic price patterns and trends and those fall in the technician's realm. You can probably tell that my bias is towards technical analysis, but I won't go any further. Read and study the whole fundamental vs. technical debate for yourself and make up your own mind about the merits and short comings of each.

It's good to be pushed in a direction to start, but ultimately you will have to find a method and system that you are comfortable with trading/investing. If you aren't comfortable, you will always play the markets scared and will only lose money.

EDIT: It also does not require as much starting capital as some would lead you to believe. You can open a mini Forex account at most Forex brokerages for as little as $250. A mini-lot costs $50 to open the position (which you get back when you close, plus/minus your profits/losses) and are $1/pip.

 

[cyclistca]

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno
Everything you need to know about financial planning for Canadians

* Make a will.
* Pay off your credit cards.
* Get term life insurance if you have a family to support.
* Fund your RRSP to the maximum.
* Buy a house if you want to live in a house and you can afford it.
* Put six months? expenses in a money market fund.
* Take whatever money is left over and invest 70% in a stock index fund and 30% in a bond fund through any discount broker and never touch it until retirement.

I would through all that money into your RRSP and forget about your dream of making it rich overnight.

If you?re really series about this I would start with taking the Canadian Securities course. It will teach you the fundamentals of investing.

Investing in risky instruments is not for the faint of heart. I recently put 25000 into a hedge fund. It dropped 1000 dollars in one month. It's now back up to its original value. Did it bother me, only for all of a second? I'm in it for the long term and I know that these things happen. It's all about risk, return, and volatility.

 

[FoBoT]

it is easy, buy low and sell high

 

[Nerva]

hey op, what did you study in college? might be worth it to go back to school for a MBA?

 

[imported_Tango]

Originally posted by: 3cho

Originally posted by: Tango

Originally posted by: stockriderman
How's forex a scam? Isn't it second to Nasdaq???

It's the largest market in the world. It's also the hardest to play in.

As someone who has been getting his money mostly from trading for all his life, my advice is: stay away from it. It looks like a game, but it is not. I have seen many, many smart people destroying a fortune in a very short time. The questions you ask clearly reflect the fact that you know nothing about financial markets and (no offense) people without proper knowledge you'd only lose money.

If you are really serious about becoming a trader, read and study (a lot) about financial analysis and economics, then pick a market you feel you could understand more than the others and to at least one year of mock-trading. Record your gains and losses.

If you are doing good, remember tha with real money the game is harder. Develop a strategy. Remember that a strategy might look good for quite a long period and make you poor in one week when the tide turns and you fail to see it. Look at what happened to Amaranth Fund.

If after all this you still feel like doing it, the go ahead. Start with very small amounts and trade long-only. Focus on something you know and understand. Use 90% financial analysis and maximum 10% technical analysis. 0% Technical analysis is even better...

If you really feel you like it at that point, go ahead and join a proprietary trading firm: training on the job is simply the only way to get consistent, constant returns.

Enjoy

not true in amaranth's case. all the other funds saw that they were in trouble and started to make opposite trades at least a month before.

Other funds. That's why I wrote if you fail to see it.

As a footnote, I know people working at that fund. It should be noted that the quant people doing strategy analysis at the firm were 100% positive about his trading strategy. Now it's easy to blame the guy, remember what he had done in the past 3 years... he was simply a superstar and most people just thought he could never be wrong.

Of course nobody can never be wrong, but just like it was foolish before to think he was some kind of God, it is foolish now to think he was a dumb kid. Last year he made 110 Million in personal commissions, and took Amaranth from 2.5B to 9B in a avery short time frame.

My point is: if you want to play the game, understand sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. And when you lose it can be very, very painful.

 

[Vic]

The secret to making money is knowing that wealth is something you build and make and sacrifice for. Easy money does not exist. The whole buzz about easy money is the world's biggest con, no matter which side you take it from, either those telling you that you can have it or those telling you that should have it, from casinos to politicians.

 

[stockriderman]

Wow. Some nice info here since my last post. I'll have to bookmark this...

 

[Nerva]

Originally posted by: Tango

Originally posted by: 3cho

Originally posted by: Tango

Originally posted by: stockriderman
How's forex a scam? Isn't it second to Nasdaq???

It's the largest market in the world. It's also the hardest to play in.

As someone who has been getting his money mostly from trading for all his life, my advice is: stay away from it. It looks like a game, but it is not. I have seen many, many smart people destroying a fortune in a very short time. The questions you ask clearly reflect the fact that you know nothing about financial markets and (no offense) people without proper knowledge you'd only lose money.

If you are really serious about becoming a trader, read and study (a lot) about financial analysis and economics, then pick a market you feel you could understand more than the others and to at least one year of mock-trading. Record your gains and losses.

If you are doing good, remember tha with real money the game is harder. Develop a strategy. Remember that a strategy might look good for quite a long period and make you poor in one week when the tide turns and you fail to see it. Look at what happened to Amaranth Fund.

If after all this you still feel like doing it, the go ahead. Start with very small amounts and trade long-only. Focus on something you know and understand. Use 90% financial analysis and maximum 10% technical analysis. 0% Technical analysis is even better...

If you really feel you like it at that point, go ahead and join a proprietary trading firm: training on the job is simply the only way to get consistent, constant returns.

Enjoy

not true in amaranth's case. all the other funds saw that they were in trouble and started to make opposite trades at least a month before.

Other funds. That's why I wrote if you fail to see it.

As a footnote, I know people working at that fund. It should be noted that the quant people doing strategy analysis at the firm were 100% positive about his trading strategy. Now it's easy to blame the guy, remember what he had done in the past 3 years... he was simply a superstar and most people just thought he could never be wrong.

Of course nobody can never be wrong, but just like it was foolish before to think he was some kind of God, it is foolish now to think he was a dumb kid. Last year he made 110 Million in personal commissions, and took Amaranth from 2.5B to 9B in a avery short time frame.

My point is: if you want to play the game, understand sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. And when you lose it can be very, very painful.

oh my bad, i must have missed it then. i havent delved too deeply into the amaranth case, but a friend of mine at a different fund definitely saw this one coming. didnt the trader try to double down at one point? some people inside his fund must have known that was a mistake.

and yes, your point is well made. with all the products that banks are putting out, a lot of times your odds arent much better than gambling.

 

[richardycc]

Originally posted by: stockriderman
Wow. Some nice info here since my last post. I'll have to bookmark this...

dont believe everything you read on here, most will tell you to max out your 401k, do you or they know the max amount for 401k this yr? thats $15k, did they know it? I doubt it, did they max it out? I seriously doubt it. do they even make enough to be able to put away $15k for retirement? maybe, maybe not....

 

[ahurtt]

Originally posted by: richardycc

Originally posted by: stockriderman
Wow. Some nice info here since my last post. I'll have to bookmark this...

dont believe everything you read on here, most will tell you to max out your 401k, do you or they know the max amount for 401k this yr? thats $15k, did they know it? I doubt it, did they max it out? I seriously doubt it. do they even make enough to be able to put away $15k for retirement? maybe, maybe not....

People who say max out your 401 K probably mean make sure you contribute the maximum allowable percentage of each paycheck that your employer will at least match, or if you can afford more, as much as they allow. Not that you need to cap out on the maximum annual contribution limit each year. Even contributing the maximum percentage allowable each pay period, most people are not going to hit that $15,000 annual cap. In my company, I can contribute a max of 9% each paycheck. To hit that $15,000 annual cap, I'd have to make a salary of close to $170,000 per year. So I think you misinterpret what people mean when they say max out your 401K. They mean max out your contributions, not cap out each year.

But here's my problem with 401K's in general:
1) The returns are not as great as you could make other places.
2) Management fees eat into your earnings.
3) Only tax deferred. . .you never really have as much money as it looks like you do because you are going to pay tax on it when you need to withdraw it.

 

[compnovice]

Originally posted by: Tango

Originally posted by: stockriderman
How's forex a scam? Isn't it second to Nasdaq???

It's the largest market in the world. It's also the hardest to play in.

As someone who has been getting his money mostly from trading for all his life, my advice is: stay away from it. It looks like a game, but it is not. I have seen many, many smart people destroying a fortune in a very short time. The questions you ask clearly reflect the fact that you know nothing about financial markets and (no offense) people without proper knowledge you'd only lose money.

If you are really serious about becoming a trader, read and study (a lot) about financial analysis and economics, then pick a market you feel you could understand more than the others and to at least one year of mock-trading. Record your gains and losses.

If you are doing good, remember tha with real money the game is harder. Develop a strategy. Remember that a strategy might look good for quite a long period and make you poor in one week when the tide turns and you fail to see it. Look at what happened to Amaranth Fund.

If after all this you still feel like doing it, the go ahead. Start with very small amounts and trade long-only. Focus on something you know and understand. Use 90% financial analysis and maximum 10% technical analysis. 0% Technical analysis is even better...

If you really feel you like it at that point, go ahead and join a proprietary trading firm: training on the job is simply the only way to get consistent, constant returns.

Enjoy

Good advice....

Also stay away from day trading, sounds lucrative but unless you are involved full time in it with resources to back it up, chances are you will go bust...

Tango: what are your views on quantitative analysis?

 

[imported_Tango]

Originally posted by: compnovice

Originally posted by: Tango

Originally posted by: stockriderman
How's forex a scam? Isn't it second to Nasdaq???

It's the largest market in the world. It's also the hardest to play in.

As someone who has been getting his money mostly from trading for all his life, my advice is: stay away from it. It looks like a game, but it is not. I have seen many, many smart people destroying a fortune in a very short time. The questions you ask clearly reflect the fact that you know nothing about financial markets and (no offense) people without proper knowledge you'd only lose money.

If you are really serious about becoming a trader, read and study (a lot) about financial analysis and economics, then pick a market you feel you could understand more than the others and to at least one year of mock-trading. Record your gains and losses.

If you are doing good, remember tha with real money the game is harder. Develop a strategy. Remember that a strategy might look good for quite a long period and make you poor in one week when the tide turns and you fail to see it. Look at what happened to Amaranth Fund.

If after all this you still feel like doing it, the go ahead. Start with very small amounts and trade long-only. Focus on something you know and understand. Use 90% financial analysis and maximum 10% technical analysis. 0% Technical analysis is even better...

If you really feel you like it at that point, go ahead and join a proprietary trading firm: training on the job is simply the only way to get consistent, constant returns.

Enjoy

Good advice....

Also stay away from day trading, sounds lucrative but unless you are involved full time in it with resources to back it up, chances are you will go bust...

Tango: what are your views on quantitative analysis?

My take on quantitative analysis is that they call Quant too much stuff nowadays... From stochastic calculus to technical analysis to basket-trading....
Now, Quant Analysis is fundamental if you are doing portfolio management and want to hedge against risk, but it's not something a single individual might be able to do anyway. It's enourmously time-consuming, and requires modeling skills most people don't have. And then most of the professionals don't get it right anyway.

Everybody on the Street would tell you different things, and have a different view: my view is that many people with good intentions and willingness to learn assume that the best way to trade is to follow the professionals. It makes no sense. It's like if your son asking you how to drive the car, and you tell him to watch F1 races to learn how to drive. Yet I hear it all the time: "they make big bucks on commodities, FX etc etc maybe I should do it too!" I understand them, what I do not understand is when professionals in the industry make nothing to educate people on the risks and difficulties of diferent markets and trading strategies. And this includes most financial press, too often making too much noise about niche markets and attracting soccer moms to risky businesses they shouldn't be involved in.

Also understand the main difference between trading and investing. Trading is NOT about your retirement money. You should only trade with money you are comfortable losing. And no matter how good you are, at some point you will lose some. Nobody is always right.
In the last two years I posted many times about emerging markets because that is what I am trading these days. My analysis is that the BRIC vision is correct. I have been out on US markets since 2005 with the exeption of two Nasdaq stocks. But if an American friend asks me what should he start trading on, my advice would be... US stocks. Trade what you know and understand, and when you see other people are making more money on other markets, stay on your track and understand that is their game, not your game. Also most people would suffer from the volatility you encounter on many emerging markets. The first thing should always be peace of mind... there's no point in not sleeping at night because you feel you are holding too risky assets. No money can pay for that..
Even better choice for someone starting to invest: ETFs. You can benefit from every market you feel like learning about, get a lot of inherent diversification and avoid wasting a lot of money in mutual funds commissions.

Same applies to different trading strategies. Trade long term. I have seen people day-trading with such a little amount of money they were basically losing just because of trading fees!

Hum.. I got carried away, sorry... back to Quant Analysis: long story short, interesting stuff, but not a thing a single investor should be interested in.