How does this work? My friend's uncle is an illegal.

[Zeze]

A friend of mine has been doing massive renovations at the new home she bought. Her uncle drove up from FL and he's been the primary labor & driving force getting the work done.

They got all the permits and the uncle is doing all the work that don't require license (electricity, plumbing, etc)

She told me her uncle got herniated disc & went to ER this AM. I commented how his Medicaid should take care of it and thanks to ACA, his max OOO can't exceed $6800~ annually (better than fvckton).

Then she said he doesn't have insurance, because he doesn't have SS#. I realized he's here illegally.

I'm not interested in his legality status in US. But how does this work for him going forward?

How do they bill him? I wonder if he has a license. No SS means no credit right? Now will the hospital enforce the bill on him?

Curious how this will work out for him.

 

[Slew Foot]

Hospital will eat the bill and charge you

 

[thestrangebrew1]

May not help in your situation, but in CA, I think illegals can get benefits through Medi-Cal. They have to meet eligibility reqs (ie income etc.) and I think the benefits are limited, but maybe FL has something similar?

 

[maddogchen]

since he's an illegal and from out of state, the hospital does not have much chance in getting paid.

 

[rh71]

LA County Medical Center wiki says:

Although by law the emergency room must evaluate all patients to determine if a life-threatening emergency exists, regardless of ability to pay, hospital care is not free. LAC+USC accepts self-pay patients as well as patients covered by private insurance, Medicare, and Medicaid (Medi-Cal). If a patient does not have a insurance or is not covered by Medi-Cal, Medicaid, or Medicare, nor have the means to pay for services, patients are presented with a bill, but are then directed to the Financial Services department adjacent to Emergency, where patients meet with counselors to review their current financial means to determine if and which financial assistance program for which they may qualify for low cost or NO cost assistance for their medical bill.

Since the implementation of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA), Los Angeles County has been able to greatly streamline the approval process and reduce the number of varied LA County and State of California programs that aided patients in paying for some or all of their medical services. While the legacy Ability-To-Pay program is still available (which can reduce per visit payments for medical services to the low double digits or require no payment at all, but must be renewed every six months), most patients are directed or aided in qualifying for the greatly expanded Medi-Cal program financed by the PPACA because the process is more simple, many can qualify, and it is more comprehensive in coverage. LA County ended its Healthy Way LA financial assistance program and moved those patients under that plan to the PPACA expanded Medi-Cal program automatically allowing patients to choose a pay per point plan or choose an HMO plan. Patients were then allowed to choose a private doctor or continue to see their current doctors at LA County Comprehensive Health Care Centers or other LA County funded clinics and continue to use the Los Angeles County Department of Health Care Services, including LAC+USC, for their health care.

 

[allisolm]

LA County Medical Center wiki says:

Not sure what Los Angeles has to do with this, but I'm thinking that the uncle, now that he in the US, will probably follow the American Way and sue his niece for the injuries suffered on her property.

 

[Zeze]

Not sure what Los Angeles has to do with this, but I'm thinking that the uncle, now that he in the US, will probably follow the American Way and sue his niece for the injuries suffered on her property.

LOL I already joked about this to her. She was not amused.

 

[dullard]

I have no answer for you but was curious about the extent of the injury. I herniated a disk recently and it was 2 doctor visits (the last one was not useful) and 5 physical therapy visits (the last 3 were not really useful). So, in all it will cost maybe $500 for me (insurance will cover almost all of it) but I could have done it for around $250 if I was being stingy with health care visits.

His injury may have been much more severe though. And going to the ER will mean a huge bill for him.

 

[SP33Demon]

It's absorbed by the rest of society. WE (i.e. AMERICAN CITIZENS) PAY FOR IT. Hospitals will jack up their fees for people who can pay or go out of business. This is why EMTALA was bullshit to begin with - an unfunded mandate.

 

[Humpy]

Not sure what Los Angeles has to do with this, but I'm thinking that the uncle, now that he in the US, will probably follow the American Way and sue his niece for the injuries suffered on her property.

It won't necessarily be her Uncle that sues. More likely the hospital and state will want to recover costs and penalize worker's comp violations.

Hopefully he keeps repeating in broken English that he tripped on a hazard in the city park.

 

[Ns1]

It won't necessarily be her Uncle that sues. More likely the hospital and state will want to recover costs and penalize worker's comp violations.

Hopefully he keeps repeating in broken English that he tripped on a hazard in the city park.

seems likely.

 

[dullard]

It's absorbed by the rest of society. WE (i.e. AMERICAN CITIZENS) PAY FOR IT.

Not necessarily. A lot of the times, the doctor just doesn't get paid. Thus, there is no bill for American citizens to pay. If this was just a simple herniated disc (i.e. no medical equipment used such as an MRI), then there was no actual cost to the hospital either other than personnel. Sure, they will bill for hundreds/thousands of dollars, but that doesn't mean that the hospital occurred any significant actual costs that need to be recovered.

If there was expensive drugs or expensive equipment used, then you would be right. But in this case, it could potentially be that the doctor spent a half hour of time unpaid.

 

[Zeze]

It's absorbed by the rest of society. WE (i.e. AMERICAN CITIZENS) PAY FOR IT. Hospitals will jack up their fees for people who can pay or go out of business. This is why EMTALA was bullshit to begin with - an unfunded mandate.

Don't want this to turn into politics thread, and I do agree with you that illegals do bring hospital costs up.

But isn't it rather minor compared to the rest of the broken system which truly bring up the medical costs?

-Ridiculous insurance fees and mega giant insurance companies taking the biggest piece of the pie

- Hospitals playing along and pulling stupidly bloated treatment costs out of their asses because insurance will pay for it.

-They win, including immigrants. Only us US citizens lose.

Take a look at countries like S. Korea. A developed nation and there are millions who don't have insurance. They don't pay that much without insurance. These costs in US are laughable.

There's a reason some US citizens go to Mexico to get extensive dental work or medical work done with first rate equipments & spa-like top-of-the-line hospitals.

Because all that is still fractions less than in US.

My Korean relatives fly half-way across the globe to Korea just for same thing + R&R and STILL pay less than in US.

It's expensive here not because you get proportional quality. Because it goes directly to fat cats at top.

 

[OutHouse]

Free medical...

 

[SP33Demon]

Not necessarily. A lot of the times, the doctor just doesn't get paid. Thus, there is no bill for American citizens to pay. If this was just a simple herniated disc (i.e. no medical equipment used such as an MRI), then there was no actual cost to the hospital either other than personnel. Sure, they will bill for hundreds/thousands of dollars, but that doesn't mean that the hospital occurred any significant actual costs that need to be recovered.

If there was expensive drugs or expensive equipment used, then you would be right. But in this case, it could potentially be that the doctor spent a half hour of time unpaid.

You are forgetting about the opportunity cost of the doctor's time to the hospital. He could be working on an insured patient that will return full profit instead of working on an illegal who has a 5% chance of paying the entire balance.

 

[vi edit]

Not necessarily. A lot of the times, the doctor just doesn't get paid. Thus, there is no bill for American citizens to pay. If this was just a simple herniated disc (i.e. no medical equipment used such as an MRI), then there was no actual cost to the hospital either other than personnel. Sure, they will bill for hundreds/thousands of dollars, but that doesn't mean that the hospital occurred any significant actual costs.

Most ED Docs are moving over to hourly rates. They'll still get paid. It's the hospital that eats the bill. Most are switching over to a Level of Service billing mechanic that they ship out to payers that determines reimbursement. It's sort of like a restaurant menu...I'll take the Doctor Consult, the Xray, these labs, a 30 minute bed and a discharge education....they check all that off and it spits out a level of service rate.

The hospital will then try to charge, fail to charge, and then write it off as "bad debt". For non-profit hospitals, it's actually a good accounting tool for them as they have to write off millions each year in charity to maintain their non-profit status.

 

[dullard]

You are forgetting about the opportunity cost of the doctor's time to the hospital. He could be working on an insured patient that will return full profit instead of working on an illegal who has a 5% chance of paying the entire balance.

Now we are into the area of not enough information. Was there even another patient to see? Neither of us knows that. You could be right, but you could also be completely wrong in this case. Stating it in all caps as if you were definitely correct was not the right move.

 

[SP33Demon]

Don't want this to turn into politics thread, and I do agree with you that illegals do bring hospital costs up.

But isn't it rather minor compared to the rest of the broken system which truly bring up the medical costs?

-Ridiculous insurance fees and mega giant insurance companies taking the biggest piece of the pie

- Hospitals playing along and pulling stupidly bloated treatment costs out of their asses because insurance will pay for it.

-They win, including immigrants. Only us US citizens lose.

Take a look at countries like S. Korea. A developed nation and there are millions who don't have insurance. They don't pay that much without insurance. These costs in US are laughable.

There's a reason some US citizens go to Mexico to get extensive dental work or medical work done with first rate equipments & spa-like top-of-the-line hospitals.

Because all that is still fractions less than in US.

My Korean relatives fly half-way across the globe to Korea just for same thing + R&R and STILL pay less than in US.

It's expensive here not because you get proportional quality. Because it goes directly to fat cats at top.

Cost of living is higher here. It's the same reason companies utilize offshore help because wages are lower there. However, your illegal uncle is here for a reason so it works both ways - he wants higher wages here. Can't complain about higher hospital costs while earning higher wages with more jobs than the country he came from (e.g. Mexico). Many people want it both ways but forget that our medical workers need to eat and have bills to pay as well. Not to mention that there is a supply shortage of them which is why they earn more.

 

[SP33Demon]

Now we are into the area of not enough information. Was there even another patient to see? Neither of us knows that. You could be right, but you could also be completely wrong in this case. Stating it in all caps as if you were definitely correct was not the right move.

Given that demand outstrips supply on a national scale, I would bet that I am right on this one. Have you ever seen a doctor or surgeon not doing anything or working on someone? I haven't and wouldn't expect to based on the statistics in the U.S. Hell my wife just had surgery and the doctor is so booked that he can't speak to her about the operation for another 2 weeks. It's crazy.

 

[Humpy]

However, your illegal uncle is here for a reason so it works both ways - he wants higher wages here.

This isn't P&N, you can't just make shit up here.

 

[mrjminer]

Knowing his status, you should report him.

 

[manly]

Don't want this to turn into politics thread, and I do agree with you that illegals do bring hospital costs up.

But isn't it rather minor compared to the rest of the broken system which truly bring up the medical costs?

-Ridiculous insurance fees and mega giant insurance companies taking the biggest piece of the pie

- Hospitals playing along and pulling stupidly bloated treatment costs out of their asses because insurance will pay for it.

-They win, including immigrants. Only us US citizens lose.

Take a look at countries like S. Korea. A developed nation and there are millions who don't have insurance. They don't pay that much without insurance. These costs in US are laughable.

There's a reason some US citizens go to Mexico to get extensive dental work or medical work done with first rate equipments & spa-like top-of-the-line hospitals.

Because all that is still fractions less than in US.

My Korean relatives fly half-way across the globe to Korea just for same thing + R&R and STILL pay less than in US.

It's expensive here not because you get proportional quality. Because it goes directly to fat cats at top.

It's debatable but I recall that ("liberal"?) studies have shown that the impact on cost of uninsured patients hitting up ERs is actually pretty modest. (It's one big myth of the anti-ACA crowd.) The two biggest factors in the U.S. appear to be the generally poor health of our residents (compared to other industrialized countries) and the for-profit systems that we run.

 

[LegendKiller]

It's debatable but I recall that ("liberal"?) studies have shown that the impact on cost of uninsured patients hitting up ERs is actually pretty modest. (It's one big myth of the anti-ACA crowd.) The two biggest factors in the U.S. appear to be the generally poor health of our residents (compared to other industrialized countries) and the for-profit systems that we run.

As long as it doesn't cost much, it's okay.

Theft is acceptable as long as you only steal a little.