How does Excavator look in 2018?

Hi-Fi Man

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I'm putting together an office system using some leftover parts and new parts. At the center of it all is an Athlon X4 845 on an ASRock FM2A68M-DG3+ with two 4GiB DIMMs of 1600MT/s DDR3 RAM. The system will also have a GeForce GT 710 2GiB GDDR5 graphics card and an OCZ Trion 100 240GB SSD. Anybody else using Excavator chips? How do they fair for general usage nowadays?

I'm curious to see how the Athlon X4 845 compares to the new Athlon 200GE.
 

NTMBK

Lifer
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For an office PC, should be great. If you had a Bristol Ridge chip and DDR4 memory it might be worth thinking about upgrading, but that should be a decent system as-is.
 

SPBHM

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I'm curious to see how the Athlon X4 845 compares to the new Athlon 200GE.

we know the CB R15 score of the 200GE is around 370 according to the AMD slide (-3% G4560), and the X4 845 score is around 320-330
I assume other applications will be even better for the 200GE because of the l3 cache, much better memory performance and much higher ST performance, so it should be a very clear win

but I don't see why the 845 would be a problem for normal use and more casual gaming, it should be fine.
 

Hi-Fi Man

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This system is replacing an old Phenom X4 9650 system that got taken out by a nasty lightning strike. The Phenom X4 9650 actually held up pretty well for general usage and I'm hoping this system lasts just as long.

These low budget builds are rather interesting. It just shows how much things have slowed down over the years.

How does the Athlon X4 845 compare to say a Celeron (non-atom)? Do the extra threads prove useful for web browsing and the like?
 
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VirtualLarry

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I forgot, Athlon X4 845, is that SteamRoller or Excavator? I think that should be fine, for office-type tasks. At least, nearly as fine as a G4560, though possibily not for games. Or maybe I'm wrong, and it's fine for games.

At least in the CPU-Z benchmark, it appears that a 2200G, is roughly equal in MT to an FX-8350, while being more than twice as fast in ST.

I don't know how the X4 845 compares to those two, directly. BR is kind of like half the CPU grunt of Ryzen APUs, maybe less with SMT enabled on Ryzen.
 

ao_ika_red

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It's on par with IvyBridge's i3. Just good enough for daily driver and in my case, it's still good enough until DDR4 price becomes reasonable to build better system.
 
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ao_ika_red

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I forgot, Athlon X4 845, is that SteamRoller or Excavator? I think that should be fine, for office-type tasks. At least, nearly as fine as a G4560, though possibily not for games. Or maybe I'm wrong, and it's fine for games.

At least in the CPU-Z benchmark, it appears that a 2200G, is roughly equal in MT to an FX-8350, while being more than twice as fast in ST.

I don't know how the X4 845 compares to those two, directly. BR is kind of like half the CPU grunt of Ryzen APUs, maybe less with SMT enabled on Ryzen.
845 is the only xv chip for fm2+ platform.
 

Abwx

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In CB R15 ST the 200GE should score 130 and the 845 around 100, on Integer code the difference should be lower.
 

amd6502

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cpu-z is a pretty poor benchmark. Look at gb3, they break down by tasks https://browser.geekbench.com/geekbench3/7350750 . If there were a benchmark of varied typical mixed tasks (as seen in real world) it would be even better.

How does the Athlon X4 845 compare to say a Celeron (non-atom)? Do the extra threads prove useful for web browsing and the like?

Pretty much all the browsers now multi-thread (there are a few like palemoon that don't quite yet), so the performance of quadcores excavator is excellent for browsing.

Great way to make use of the 8gb spare ddr3. Are they still making fm2+ boards? The selection of new boards doesn't look too good; I do see some budget am3+ boards still at newegg.
 

ao_ika_red

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cpu-z is a pretty poor benchmark. Look at gb3, they break down by tasks https://browser.geekbench.com/geekbench3/7350750 . If there were a benchmark of varied typical mixed tasks (as seen in real world) it would be even better.



Pretty much all the browsers now multi-thread (there are a few like palemoon that don't quite yet), so the performance of quadcores excavator is excellent for browsing.

Great way to make use of the 8gb spare ddr3. Are they still making fm2+ boards? The selection of new boards doesn't look too good; I do see some budget am3+ boards still at newegg.

I recommend my ASRock A88m-g/3.1 board as it supports 845 out of the box and has every modern I/O as well (USB3.1 10Gbps and Type-C to name few) and also very good audio codec (Realtek 1150).
I purchased it to replace low end A68 board 6 months ago for less than $70.
 

Hi-Fi Man

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Anybody have any concrete numbers comparing the Athlon X4 845 against a Sandy/Ivy bridge i3?
 
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Insert_Nickname

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I'm putting together an office system using some leftover parts and new parts. At the center of it all is an Athlon X4 845 on an ASRock FM2A68M-DG3+ with two 4GiB DIMMs of 1600MT/s DDR3 RAM. The system will also have a GeForce GT 710 2GiB GDDR5 graphics card and an OCZ Trion 100 240GB SSD. Anybody else using Excavator chips? How do they fair for general usage nowadays?

They work, as long as you don't expect too much. Ex is fine for basic use. You may want to consider faster RAM. Carrizo's memory controller is fairly weak (high lantency, low bandwidth) as is. Given it only has 2MB L2, a good memory subsystem is recommended.

Don't even think about using any software that uses AVX2. The implementation is rather slow.

I'm curious to see how the Athlon X4 845 compares to the new Athlon 200GE.

That is not going to be pretty. Zen already walks all over Excavator.
 

amd6502

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imho A68 seems fine for most purposes. The point of fm2 is budget anyway (esp'ly these days).
 

amd6502

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As far integer multicore performance, the Athlon 845 is about twice as fast as a similarly binned and watted i3 Sandy (i3-2130, 65W).

https://browser.geekbench.com/geekbench3/compare/5446205?baseline=7350750

Integer 2243 vs 3299
I-Multi 5450 vs 11509

Floats 2725 vs 2811
F-Multi 6641 vs 9161

For mixed loads or single thread the Athlon generally outperforms the i3.

If you look at the individual benchmarks you see that sandy probably lacks native AES, and is also weaker at other encryption instructions like SHA. Efficiency of SMT for JPG is very weak.

For the FPU portion of the benchmarks it looks like the FPU units are also more modern. Either that or the CMT has advantages over Sandy SMT; it's four "half-sized" FPUs versus two "regular-sized" FPUs used with SMT. The reason I'm guessing this is that for single thread floats the difference in scores is smaller. (Supposedly SMT vs CMT should have very similar performance when comparing FPUs with similar number or transistors. So maybe the SMT in Sandy was still rough.)
 
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SPBHM

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As far integer multicore performance, the Athlon 845 is about twice as fast as a similarly binned and watted i3 Sandy (i3-2130, 65W).

https://browser.geekbench.com/geekbench3/compare/5446205?baseline=7350750

Integer 2243 vs 3299
I-Multi 5450 vs 11509

Floats 2725 vs 2811
F-Multi 6641 vs 9161

For mixed loads or single thread the Athlon generally outperforms the i3.

If you look at the individual benchmarks you see that sandy probably lacks native AES, and is also weaker at other encryption instructions like SHA. Efficiency of SMT for JPG is very weak.

For the FPU portion of the benchmarks it looks like the FPU units are also more modern. Either that or the CMT has advantages over Sandy SMT; it's four "half-sized" FPUs versus two "regular-sized" FPUs used with SMT. The reason I'm guessing this is that for single thread floats the difference in scores is smaller. (Supposedly SMT vs CMT should have very similar performance when comparing FPUs with similar number or transistors. So maybe the SMT in Sandy was still rough.)


why not average results (for stock) geekbench 4 under the same OS?

https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/compare/8354616?baseline=3377244


(AES acceleartion was disabled on i3s, you needed a sandy i5-i7 for that)

or cinebench r15 which is around 290 for this i3 and 320 for the 845

but as I said CB is very forgiving with poor memory/cache and the lack of l3 from the 845 will be felt more clearly in other applications

https://www.hardware.fr/articles/965-3/performances-jeux-3d.html
https://www.hardware.fr/articles/965-2/performances-applicatives.html

845 is bellow a core 2 quad and a pentium with no SMT

I'm confident in saying that for normal use the i3 2130 would be mostly superior.
 

amd6502

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why not average results (for stock) geekbench 4 under the same OS?

[....]

I'm confident in saying that for normal use the i3 2130 would be mostly superior.

The OS should not matter much (unless running 32bit verus 64bit which). I mainly wanted to avoid all the overclocked results and outliers (of which in GB often there can be many). This i3 is luckily not unlocked, so the OC potential is less; but people can still do base clock overclock, or put in a monster cooler (changing base freq to all core boost freq). I know Macs are impossible to hard to overclock.

The Athlon 845 lacks an L3 cache (and the L2 shrunk in size by half from the previous generation--although with a better faster low latency L2 cache). So a tip for Athlon 845 builders is match it with low latency memory (low cas/freq ) if performance is a bigger priority than budget. Also it seems to be true that A88 mobos seem to do better; all the top results are A88 vs A68. But since perf is secondary to budget for this category, the difference likely isn't worth the extra cost for the typical person.

--

Have you ever tried a desktop excavator quadcore (or even any well binned >= 15w excavator quad)? For those who haven't, they're worlds different from early gen dozers.

--

The reason for GB3 over GB4 is that they break down performance by FP and INT tasks. It gives the layman (who is not very familiar with all the particulars of a large slew of benchmarks) a better idea of what the benchmarks are, and also gives you not only a single total composite, but a composite for all four categories I listed above (int, int-mul, fp, fp-mul).

There's only one thing I wish GB3 did, which would be mixed load (fp+int) for various numbers of threads: 2, 4, 6, 8. That would give people a realistic idea of typical real world performance.

Cinebench is not a bad benchmark, but it seems like mostly pure floats loads to me (maybe I'm wrong). Unless you are some niche user, it doesn't seem like a typical real life situation.
 
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SPBHM

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yes but the result you posted is from a hackintosh (going by the bios name) not a proper apple PC so it doesn't eliminate OC as a factor and adds other possible problems

you can kind of avoid OCs by looking at many results and the clock detection is OK most of the time, I'm convinced the results I posted do not involve OC

I think the overall MT and ST score from the GB4 link is far more representative of how they compare than the GB3 ones.