How does evolution work?

[E equals MC2]

I'm talking about a simple micro evolution within species. (P&N stay away!)

As you know in Galapagos (sp) island, certain birds have developed a specific curvy beak in order to drink honey from flowers with deep petals.

How is the information to 'morph' passed down to its offsprings then?

In more simple words, how does the bird start to develop a curved beak? They have no direct control of how their offsprings will be shaped physically... Does the body happen to know? If so, how?

As we know, just because we try something really hard in our lives, doesn't mean our children will be more 'adaptable' physically. (I know it's an extreme example as we are humans.)

 

[jagec]

No, what happens is that the birds with worse-shaped beaks don't get as much honey, and so they won't be as reproductively successful, and thus won't pass on their genes.

Of course, that doesn't explain the peculiar case of the hyena...

 

[chambersc]

Originally posted by: jagec
No, what happens is that the birds with worse-shaped beaks don't get as much honey, and so they won't be as reproductively successful, and thus won't pass on their genes.

Of course, that doesn't explain the peculiar case of the hyena...

Oh, do explain please.

 

[igowerf]

You don't really "morph" or mutate new abilities. You're born with the gene that causes a certain trait, like a curved beak. You don't develop it while you're alive. If it happens to be beneficial, your chances of survival and reproduction will be better than average. That gene then might be passed to your offspring.

 

[RelaxTheMind]

DNA

 

[gopunk]

google "natural selection"

and this whole micro / macro evolution thing is really a false dichotomy set up by detractors of evolution

 

[E equals MC2]

Originally posted by: jagec
No, what happens is that the birds with worse-shaped beaks don't get as much honey, and so they won't be as reproductively successful, and thus won't pass on their genes.

Of course, that doesn't explain the peculiar case of the hyena...

um.. how did the bird with curvy beaks start out that way then? I'm sure Darwin documented that the beaks actually changed over time throughout its generations. It's not the case of already existing curvy beaks and they 'outproduced' the straight beaks.

 

[yhelothar]

Originally posted by: jagec
No, what happens is that the birds with worse-shaped beaks don't get as much honey, and so they won't be as reproductively successful, and thus won't pass on their genes.

Of course, that doesn't explain the peculiar case of the hyena...

Yup.
The best shaped beaks gets the food, and survives to pass their genes on. So gradually, the beaks start to differentiate to adapt to their diet.

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: E equals MC2

Originally posted by: jagec
No, what happens is that the birds with worse-shaped beaks don't get as much honey, and so they won't be as reproductively successful, and thus won't pass on their genes.

Of course, that doesn't explain the peculiar case of the hyena...

um.. how did the bird with curvy beaks start out that way then? I'm sure Darwin documented that the beaks actually changed over time throughout its generations. It's not the case of already existing curvy beaks and they 'outproduced' the straight beaks.

well, it's just like some of us humans are taller than others... or some of us have pointy noses, and some of us don't... i think they call it genetic diversity.

 

[E equals MC2]

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: E equals MC2

Originally posted by: jagec
No, what happens is that the birds with worse-shaped beaks don't get as much honey, and so they won't be as reproductively successful, and thus won't pass on their genes.

Of course, that doesn't explain the peculiar case of the hyena...

um.. how did the bird with curvy beaks start out that way then? I'm sure Darwin documented that the beaks actually changed over time throughout its generations. It's not the case of already existing curvy beaks and they 'outproduced' the straight beaks.

well, it's just like some of us humans are taller than others... or some of us have pointy noses, and some of us don't... i think they call it genetic diversity.

So it's not 'evolution' then. A curvey beak wasn't 'developed' over time. They just happened to be curvy and outlived others that weren't curvy?

What the hell is evolution then?

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: chambersc

Originally posted by: jagec
No, what happens is that the birds with worse-shaped beaks don't get as much honey, and so they won't be as reproductively successful, and thus won't pass on their genes.

Of course, that doesn't explain the peculiar case of the hyena...

Oh, do explain please.

Heck if I know, I'm not a biologist. Google "hyena sex". I have no clue why evolution would take that path.

Originally posted by: E equals MC2
So it's not 'evolution' then. A curvey beak wasn't 'developed' over time. They just happened to be curvy and outlived others that weren't curvy?

What the hell is evolution then?

Umm, evolution is the process that shapes species by desirable traits outliving nondesirable traits?

Think about it...there's a certain variation in beak curviness. You kill the bottom third, and breed the rest of them. Now you have another generation with various beak curves, but the average is more curvy. Once again kill the bottom third and breed the rest. Do this for thousands of generations. That's evolution.

You know how Chihuahuas and Great Danes got to be as different as they are? The same process, but selection was done by humans rather than nature.

 

[E equals MC2]

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: chambersc

Originally posted by: jagec
No, what happens is that the birds with worse-shaped beaks don't get as much honey, and so they won't be as reproductively successful, and thus won't pass on their genes.

Of course, that doesn't explain the peculiar case of the hyena...

Oh, do explain please.

Heck if I know, I'm not a biologist. Google "hyena sex". I have no clue why evolution would take that path.

i am not googling hyena sex at work.

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: E equals MC2

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: E equals MC2

Originally posted by: jagec
No, what happens is that the birds with worse-shaped beaks don't get as much honey, and so they won't be as reproductively successful, and thus won't pass on their genes.

Of course, that doesn't explain the peculiar case of the hyena...

um.. how did the bird with curvy beaks start out that way then? I'm sure Darwin documented that the beaks actually changed over time throughout its generations. It's not the case of already existing curvy beaks and they 'outproduced' the straight beaks.

well, it's just like some of us humans are taller than others... or some of us have pointy noses, and some of us don't... i think they call it genetic diversity.

So it's not 'evolution' then. A curvey beak wasn't 'developed' over time. They just happened to be curvy and outlived others that weren't curvy?

What the hell is evolution then?

you should really think about what people are saying before jumping to conclusions. that is exactly evolution. now, the beaks don't have to start out as curvy as they are now... as the curvier beaked birds reproduce more successfully than the other birds, the beaks of the overall population will end up curvier and curvier.

if, as humans, we only bred people with pointy noses, you can bet that over a long period of time, we'd end up with people with really really pointy noses, perhaps pointier than any that exist today.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Mutants are everywhere, living among us.

 

[yhelothar]

Originally posted by: E equals MC2

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: E equals MC2

Originally posted by: jagec
No, what happens is that the birds with worse-shaped beaks don't get as much honey, and so they won't be as reproductively successful, and thus won't pass on their genes.

Of course, that doesn't explain the peculiar case of the hyena...

um.. how did the bird with curvy beaks start out that way then? I'm sure Darwin documented that the beaks actually changed over time throughout its generations. It's not the case of already existing curvy beaks and they 'outproduced' the straight beaks.

well, it's just like some of us humans are taller than others... or some of us have pointy noses, and some of us don't... i think they call it genetic diversity.

So it's not 'evolution' then. A curvey beak wasn't 'developed' over time. They just happened to be curvy and outlived others that weren't curvy?

What the hell is evolution then?

In a way a curvy beak was developed over time.
Think of it this way.
Giraffes have long necks right? How did they develop them? They probably started off as a species of horses that ate leaves from trees. The horses with the longer necks got all the leaves, leaving none for the ones with the shorter necks. Thus the shorter necks died off. The gene pool is now has longer neck traits. Now the shorter of the former long necks won't have food to eat.. so they die off, and the necks get even longer in the gene pool. Multiply this by millions of years, and you get giraffes with 6ft long necks.

 

[djheater]

This is the reason evolution needs to be taught in school. My 8 year old has a better grasp of it than OP.

 

[E equals MC2]

Originally posted by: virtualgames0

Originally posted by: E equals MC2

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: E equals MC2

Originally posted by: jagec
No, what happens is that the birds with worse-shaped beaks don't get as much honey, and so they won't be as reproductively successful, and thus won't pass on their genes.

Of course, that doesn't explain the peculiar case of the hyena...

um.. how did the bird with curvy beaks start out that way then? I'm sure Darwin documented that the beaks actually changed over time throughout its generations. It's not the case of already existing curvy beaks and they 'outproduced' the straight beaks.

well, it's just like some of us humans are taller than others... or some of us have pointy noses, and some of us don't... i think they call it genetic diversity.

So it's not 'evolution' then. A curvey beak wasn't 'developed' over time. They just happened to be curvy and outlived others that weren't curvy?

What the hell is evolution then?

In a way a curvy beak was developed over time.
Think of it this way.
Giraffes have long necks right? How did they develop them? They probably started off as a species of horses that ate leaves from trees. The horses with the longer necks got all the leaves, leaving none for the ones with the shorter necks. Thus the shorter necks died off. The gene pool is now has longer neck traits. Now the shorter of the former long necks won't have food to eat.. so they die off, and the necks get even longer in the gene pool. Multiply this by millions of years, and you get giraffes with 6ft long necks.

Ahh.. so in a way, at first giraffs are actually rare freaks of nature with extra long necks, however when other shortnecked ones died off over millions of years, the long-necked became the 'norm' as we see today.

correc?

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: E equals MC2

Originally posted by: virtualgames0

Originally posted by: E equals MC2

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: E equals MC2

Originally posted by: jagec
No, what happens is that the birds with worse-shaped beaks don't get as much honey, and so they won't be as reproductively successful, and thus won't pass on their genes.

Of course, that doesn't explain the peculiar case of the hyena...

um.. how did the bird with curvy beaks start out that way then? I'm sure Darwin documented that the beaks actually changed over time throughout its generations. It's not the case of already existing curvy beaks and they 'outproduced' the straight beaks.

well, it's just like some of us humans are taller than others... or some of us have pointy noses, and some of us don't... i think they call it genetic diversity.

So it's not 'evolution' then. A curvey beak wasn't 'developed' over time. They just happened to be curvy and outlived others that weren't curvy?

What the hell is evolution then?

In a way a curvy beak was developed over time.
Think of it this way.
Giraffes have long necks right? How did they develop them? They probably started off as a species of horses that ate leaves from trees. The horses with the longer necks got all the leaves, leaving none for the ones with the shorter necks. Thus the shorter necks died off. The gene pool is now has longer neck traits. Now the shorter of the former long necks won't have food to eat.. so they die off, and the necks get even longer in the gene pool. Multiply this by millions of years, and you get giraffes with 6ft long necks.

Ahh.. so in a way, at first giraffs are actually rare freaks of nature with extra long necks, however when other shortnecked ones died off over millions of years, the long-necked became the 'norm' as we see today.

correc?

it doesn't have to be that there were initially freak giraffes... through random mutations and whatnot, you're naturally going to have a spectrum of neck lengths to begin with.

 

[igowerf]

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: E equals MC2

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: E equals MC2

Originally posted by: jagec
No, what happens is that the birds with worse-shaped beaks don't get as much honey, and so they won't be as reproductively successful, and thus won't pass on their genes.

Of course, that doesn't explain the peculiar case of the hyena...

um.. how did the bird with curvy beaks start out that way then? I'm sure Darwin documented that the beaks actually changed over time throughout its generations. It's not the case of already existing curvy beaks and they 'outproduced' the straight beaks.

well, it's just like some of us humans are taller than others... or some of us have pointy noses, and some of us don't... i think they call it genetic diversity.

So it's not 'evolution' then. A curvey beak wasn't 'developed' over time. They just happened to be curvy and outlived others that weren't curvy?

What the hell is evolution then?

you should really think about what people are saying before jumping to conclusions. that is exactly evolution. now, the beaks don't have to start out as curvy as they are now... as the curvier beaked birds reproduce more successfully than the other birds, the beaks of the overall population will end up curvier and curvier.

if, as humans, we only bred people with pointy noses, you can bet that over a long period of time, we'd end up with people with really really pointy noses, perhaps pointier than any that exist today.

Exactly. When you're thinking about evolution, you HAVE to keep in mind that it has no point. It's completely random and whatever traits are better, tend to become more common.

For example, most humans are born with the ability to produce lactase, which lets us digest lactose (the sugar in milk), but lactase production decrease as we grow older. Milk is like a nutritional powerbar for babies and we don't really need it when we get older.

However, people who have ancestors in regions where dairy was common tend to keep the ability to digest dairy. Those ancestors probably relied on dairy for nutrition, and those who could drink milk without getting sick grew big and strong and had healthy bones. They obviously lived longer and had a better chance at reproducing. Now, thousands of years later, some people are blessed with the ability to drink milk without regretting it afterwards.

This "mutation" doesn't really benefit us today in a developed country, but it was probably significant enough to make a difference thousands and thousands of years ago.

 

[yhelothar]

Originally posted by: E equals MC2

Originally posted by: virtualgames0

Originally posted by: E equals MC2

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: E equals MC2

Originally posted by: jagec
No, what happens is that the birds with worse-shaped beaks don't get as much honey, and so they won't be as reproductively successful, and thus won't pass on their genes.

Of course, that doesn't explain the peculiar case of the hyena...

um.. how did the bird with curvy beaks start out that way then? I'm sure Darwin documented that the beaks actually changed over time throughout its generations. It's not the case of already existing curvy beaks and they 'outproduced' the straight beaks.

well, it's just like some of us humans are taller than others... or some of us have pointy noses, and some of us don't... i think they call it genetic diversity.

So it's not 'evolution' then. A curvey beak wasn't 'developed' over time. They just happened to be curvy and outlived others that weren't curvy?

What the hell is evolution then?

In a way a curvy beak was developed over time.
Think of it this way.
Giraffes have long necks right? How did they develop them? They probably started off as a species of horses that ate leaves from trees. The horses with the longer necks got all the leaves, leaving none for the ones with the shorter necks. Thus the shorter necks died off. The gene pool is now has longer neck traits. Now the shorter of the former long necks won't have food to eat.. so they die off, and the necks get even longer in the gene pool. Multiply this by millions of years, and you get giraffes with 6ft long necks.

Ahh.. so in a way, at first giraffs are actually rare freaks of nature with extra long necks, however when other shortnecked ones died off over millions of years, the long-necked became the 'norm' as we see today.

correc?

Not correct.
They were horse-like animals with slightly longer necks than the average. As then shorter necks died off, the population's average neck length became higher. Thus the below average lengths will die off, and thus the average will get higher and higher over time. After millions of years, the effect multiplies, resulting in the average length of the neck to be very long like today's giraffes.

 

[E equals MC2]

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: E equals MC2

Originally posted by: virtualgames0

Originally posted by: E equals MC2

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: E equals MC2

Originally posted by: jagec
No, what happens is that the birds with worse-shaped beaks don't get as much honey, and so they won't be as reproductively successful, and thus won't pass on their genes.

Of course, that doesn't explain the peculiar case of the hyena...

um.. how did the bird with curvy beaks start out that way then? I'm sure Darwin documented that the beaks actually changed over time throughout its generations. It's not the case of already existing curvy beaks and they 'outproduced' the straight beaks.

well, it's just like some of us humans are taller than others... or some of us have pointy noses, and some of us don't... i think they call it genetic diversity.

So it's not 'evolution' then. A curvey beak wasn't 'developed' over time. They just happened to be curvy and outlived others that weren't curvy?

What the hell is evolution then?

In a way a curvy beak was developed over time.
Think of it this way.
Giraffes have long necks right? How did they develop them? They probably started off as a species of horses that ate leaves from trees. The horses with the longer necks got all the leaves, leaving none for the ones with the shorter necks. Thus the shorter necks died off. The gene pool is now has longer neck traits. Now the shorter of the former long necks won't have food to eat.. so they die off, and the necks get even longer in the gene pool. Multiply this by millions of years, and you get giraffes with 6ft long necks.

Ahh.. so in a way, at first giraffs are actually rare freaks of nature with extra long necks, however when other shortnecked ones died off over millions of years, the long-necked became the 'norm' as we see today.

correc?

it doesn't have to be that there were initially freak giraffes... through random mutations and whatnot, you're naturally going to have a spectrum of neck lengths to begin with.

So.. how does this explain the evolutions BETWEEN species? A briefly land-hopping fish to amphibian to lizard to warm blooded animals...

Survival of the fittest doesn't quite explain this here.

 

[Goosemaster]

It's all based on CDMA....


oh..wait

 

[igowerf]

Originally posted by: E equals MC2
So.. how does this explain the evolutions BETWEEN species? A briefly land-hopping fish to amphibian to lizard to warm blooded animals...

Survival of the fittest doesn't quite explain this here.

Those are generally referred to as "missing links," which are fossil records between species that are... well... missing.

 

[Kevin1211]

Originally posted by: E equals MC2
How does evolution work?

You weren't awake during 9th grade biology, right?

 

[Praxis1452]

Originally posted by: E equals MC2

So.. how does this explain the evolutions BETWEEN species? A briefly land-hopping fish to amphibian to lizard to warm blooded animals...

Survival of the fittest doesn't quite explain this here.

As lakes turned into swamps those who could survive longer without water lived. The drying theory or something was proven wrong. gah I watched a whole nova series on this just forget it though...

Anyway it seems to me your looking for an answer you'll never find.