How does everyone feel about Valve pulling 'Hatred' from Greenlight?

[Subyman]

This is yet another parenting issue, not a vendor responsibility issue.

I agree, kids can pirate whatever they want, so Walmart, et al not selling it doesn't do anything.

 

[escrow4]

Killing is the point of Hatred. There's no other goal in the game. In games like CoD, BF or RPG games (or any other sane game), you have a goal (save someone, kill a bad guy, conquer the world, something) and the game puts enemies on your path you need to dispose of to reach your goal. It's either them (game over for you) or you (move to next objective/win). This makes a huge difference, I don't understand how can this be not understood? As an example, one of the CoD games had a section where you had to kill innocent people on an airport. This was crossing the line for me. There is never any reason to kill innocent people and making it a goal for the player is sickening for me. Even if it's just a game.

Is anyone ever really truly so pure and innocent?

 

[rivethead]

So you want Steam to filter out games based on completely arbitrary protesting? I despise that way of thinking, it's absolutely sickening to me. Far worse than anything I could imagine in that game.

Nope. I want Steam to filter out games that don't appeal to mainstream normal gamers like myself. I believe the vast majority of gamers would not be interested in this type of game.

 

[pcslookout]

I think the game looks ok. Really don't care that they pulled it.

 

[Qbah]

The realism in games today is mind blowing. When I was young (late 80s, early 90s), Atari and Commodore were all the rage. 8-bit gaming... We were not subject to such things, so my parents had an easier time teaching me about values. Even TV was a luxury.

Kids these days get fed such things daily, directly or indirectly, from the very beginning. You think a game rating or Steam ban will stop them from playing? Think again. They will find a way to play such games, no matter how hard you try to prevent it. Even if it starts innocently (curiosity), it can end really bad after a while. There's this story now about an 18 year old stabbing both his parents to death in their sleep because they did not approve of his girlfriend... Regular folks, kid was a typical teenager at school. Trust me, kids are not old enough to always tell the difference that this is wrong and you will not be always there to explain it to them and tell what is wrong and right. I experienced the evolution of gaming, from the early days, my value system was not subject to such things when I was growing up. Current generation is being brought up with things we couldn't even imagine - an example being a very realistic depiction of pointless violence. What I'm trying to say is, it's irresponsible to create such games. I'm old enough to tell the difference. Not everybody who will play such games, is.

Violence is part of our world, so is gaming. Everything sane has a place, with proper moderation. Some things require explanations and reasoning, especially about values. Pointless violence is something we can all live without, in gaming or otherwise. Why would any adult play such a game is beyond me. Kids are not supposed to play it. So who is this for?

I'm 32, in case people are wondering.

 

[JumBie]

Killing is the point of Hatred. There's no other goal in the game. In games like CoD, BF or RPG games (or any other sane game), you have a goal (save someone, kill a bad guy, conquer the world, something) and the game puts enemies on your path you need to dispose of to reach your goal. It's either them (game over for you) or you (move to next objective/win). This makes a huge difference, I don't understand how can this be not understood? As an example, one of the CoD games had a section where you had to kill innocent people on an airport. This was crossing the line for me. There is never any reason to kill innocent people and making it a goal for the player is sickening for me. Even if it's just a game.

Huh?... Killing is the MAIN part of all shooting games. We aren't playing them to shoot cardboard targets. We are killing animated humans, most of the time they are representing different cultures and backgrounds. The end goal is winning by which ever means possible. Postal has us killing innocent civilians for fun, pissing on their body and running a chainsaw through their skull but for some reason that remains on steam. I see nothing wrong with this game, the only reason people see something wrong is because the media has clearly put an idea in your head. I also assume the game itself wants to create this sort of buzz in hopes that it well sell more copies. If the game looks good on release I'll purchase it and give it a go.

 

[Qbah]

Huh?... Killing is the MAIN part of all shooting games. We aren't playing them to shoot cardboard targets. We are killing animated humans, most of the time they are representing different cultures and backgrounds. The end goal is winning by which ever means possible. Postal has us killing innocent civilians for fun, pissing on their body and running a chainsaw through their skull but for some reason that remains on steam. I see nothing wrong with this game, the only reason people see something wrong is because the media has clearly put an idea in your head. I also assume the game itself wants to create this sort of buzz in hopes that it well sell more copies. If the game looks good on release I'll purchase it and give it a go.

I would be happy if postal was removed too. I remember trying the first one many years ago. The violence made me sick. I did not want to play it again.

Typical FPS games are about killing enemies that fight back and are dangerous. Great FPS games give you a choice (like Deus Ex or Dishonored). Some games are also about consequences of your actions. Others make it a point to be over the top or have a fantasy setting. Pointless violence should never be the goal of a game, ever.

 

[StrangerGuy]

I would be happy if postal was removed too. I remember trying the first one many years ago. The violence made me sick. I did not want to play it again.

Typical FPS games are about killing enemies that fight back and are dangerous. Great FPS games give you a choice (like Deus Ex or Dishonored). Some games are also about consequences of your actions. Others make it a point to be over the top or have a fantasy setting. Pointless violence should never be the goal of a game, ever.

How about you stay in that kindergarten of yours and keep drinking milk while rest of us grown ups decide what they want for entertainment and mature enough to understand that concept?

Mmmkay?

 

[JumBie]

I would be happy if postal was removed too. I remember trying the first one many years ago. The violence made me sick. I did not want to play it again.

Typical FPS games are about killing enemies that fight back and are dangerous. Great FPS games give you a choice (like Deus Ex or Dishonored). Some games are also about consequences of your actions. Others make it a point to be over the top or have a fantasy setting. Pointless violence should never be the goal of a game, ever.

Like a previous poster said, killing is killing no matter how you look at it. Whether you split a guys head open because he came at you with a knife, or whether you split a guys head open for no reason what so ever, hes dead. The aftermath is the same, the only thing that changes is the reason. If it makes you sick to kill an innocent computer a.i vs one that's shooting at you with a gun then I think you might have deep psychological issues that are triggering these feelings.

 

[taserbro]

Honestly, the violence doesn't appeal to me and the gameplay looked generic, unfun and completely uninspired. I found the trailer to be disturbing long before the gaming press had tried to tell me what to think.

What I find awful is that relatively sane corporations like valve would bow to the pressure of the same interests groups who revel in the power of their "think of the children" appeal to emotions when they never really gave a shit about video games, violence or anyone's child.

Everytime a company or retail chain caves to this fake outrage, those who are out there to push their messed up with-us-or-against us flavor of demagoguery become more influential and I fear it's only a matter of time before video games suffer the same fate as the american comic books industry did for those old enough to remember.

 

[Bateluer]

Looks like its back on Steam now.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=356532461

 

[TheSlamma]

I don't think any game should be censored.. but I also think if a company wants to pull the title off their platform that is 100% fine too. That game can be distributed elsewhere.

 

[Dankk]

Looks like its back on Steam now.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=356532461

Great. :thumbsup:

I was about to write some long-winded post about my surprise with all the posts here saying "I find the content in this game offensive, therefore I'm glad the game was removed from Steam".

Sure, as a private company, Steam has a right to not sell it; and you also have a right to not buy it if you don't like it. The beautiful thing, though, is that it is possible for game developers to make whatever kind of game they want - including games like this - and people are free to support it as they please.

In the US, video games are protected as a form of art, just like movies, music, or books. You can make a video game about, literally, almost anything you want. Sure, making a video game about being a Nazi soldier gassing innocent people in WWII Germany would be pretty vile, but hey; you're still free to make a game like that if you want, and the idea that you can make whatever you want is pretty great IMO.

There's the argument: "Well, Steam doesn't want to sell this game because they don't want to be associated with that kind of hyper violence"; but then why are they still selling games like Postal? Manhunt? GTA? Saints Row?

Let's face it. Valve is all about the dollar signs. The reason why they put the game back up is probably because of the countless emails, petitions and other feedback that exploded yesterday when the game was taken offline. On Facebook, the developer actually posted some Greenlight stats from when the voting was enabled. Over the course of a mere two hours (from when the game was up, to when it was taken back down), it accrued somewhere to the tune of fifteen-thousand (!) "yes" votes, about ~90% of the vote. It's pretty clear that people want to play this game.

And, last time I checked, the "violent video games make people violent" argument has been debunked multiple times. But if someone can link me to some credible, reliable research that violent video games are bad for people - not just some junk science - I'd be happy to look at it.

Also, if you think the developers are some kind of terrible, awful people, try reading any interview with them. They seem pretty reasonable IMO. http://www.gamona.de/games/hatred,interview-pc:article,2549037.html

 

[Bateluer]

I don't think any game should be censored.. but I also think if a company wants to pull the title off their platform that is 100% fine too. That game can be distributed elsewhere.

These days, a game pulled from Steam will lose the bulk of its sales. Especially from a relatively unknown developer. Its financially damning.

 

[M0oG0oGaiPan]

eh finally watched the video. it's not that bad. looks like a generic isometric run n gun game with fatalities thrown in. basically another postal or a gta game that's already at 5 stars. doesn't help the voiceover is so terrible.

i don't see how playing this game is instantly going to make a kid one to go on a shooting spree. if anything playing something like dota where the kids are talking shit to each other over voice is going to trigger some kind of anti bullying rampage.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Without reading the entire thread. Steam is allowed to sell or not sell essentially what every they want. Yes GTA and such you can kill innocents but its not the entire point of the game. This game seems kind of distasteful to me. Is anyone pissed WalMart didn't pick it up to sell?

 

[tidy]

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[master_shake_]

i was always a fan of going in to the mall in vice city and having a shooting spree.

 

[ImpulsE69]

I always liked the football field in Carmageddon

Point is, the game looks like it is essentially Postal 3, and it doesnt' even look like it is first person. Still looks overhead 3rd person. There is a goal other than killing people of course. That is not to die...well until you are ready I imagine.

 

[Qbah]

The game is back in the store. I guess money wins again. People saying this is censorship - are you kidding me? Have you any idea what that word means? Freedom of speech (which obviously includes freedom of expression) does not mean you can say or do whatever you want. I couldn't care less about gaming preferences of adults. However allowing to promote and sell a game whose sole purpose is to glorify pointless violence - that's what I have a problem with.

 

[Bateluer]

The game is back in the store. I guess money wins again. People saying this is censorship - are you kidding me? Have you any idea what that word means? Freedom of speech (which obviously includes freedom of expression) does not mean you can say or do whatever you want. I couldn't care less about gaming preferences of adults. However allowing to promote and sell a game whose sole purpose is to glorify pointless violence - that's what I have a problem with.

What Valve attempted to do was censorship, by the very definition of the word.

Incidentally, it was Gabe Newell himself who personally intervened to restore the game to Steam's Store.

From his FB page.

 

[StrangerGuy]

The game is back in the store. I guess money wins again. People saying this is censorship - are you kidding me? Have you any idea what that word means? Freedom of speech (which obviously includes freedom of expression) does not mean you can say or do whatever you want. I couldn't care less about gaming preferences of adults. However allowing to promote and sell a game whose sole purpose is to glorify pointless violence - that's what I have a problem with.

Hey look, a guy who wants a game banned just because he finds it offensive is now lecturing us about censorship and freedom of speech!

Seriously, you have far worse problems in the head than violent media.

 

[PrincessFrosty]

And, last time I checked, the "violent video games make people violent" argument has been debunked multiple times. But if someone can link me to some credible, reliable research that violent video games are bad for people - not just some junk science - I'd be happy to look at it.

Also, if you think the developers are some kind of terrible, awful people, try reading any interview with them. They seem pretty reasonable IMO. http://www.gamona.de/games/hatred,interview-pc:article,2549037.html

OMG it's a rational, sane and sensible human being who expects facts and evidence to back claims rather than believing completely unsupported nonsense.

GET HIM!

[/sarcasm]

On a more serious note, I'm glad there's at least one other member on this forum with a brain, seriously...so many people lose their minds over this kind of thing and have zero ability to think logically or critically about it, they immediately leap into emotional defense mode where the strength of how offended they are is their primary argument to apply censorship.

I'm so glad this game is back on steam, I didn't have particular plans to buy it up until this point, but I've just upvoted it and will probably grab it on launch, just because it makes so many of the SJWs mad that other people can enjoy themselves to entertainment they personally find offensive.

Valve did the right thing here.

And to all the SJWs out there, try replying to people with evidence of whatever claim you have, if your claim is merely that you're offended then here's my counter claim, your face offends me. So what?

 

[Qbah]

Hey look, a guy who wants a game banned just because he finds it offensive is now lecturing us about censorship and freedom of speech!

Seriously, you have far worse problems in the head than violent media.

I had the unfortunate luck to live in a county where censorship was part of every day (I'm Polish, same as Hatred developers). I was too young to understand this when it was still around, but my parents and grandparents remember it very well and the topic is discussed often when we meet.

That Gabe reversed it is even worse. This can be taken as "the savior of PC gaming" personally approving such games. Do I think so? No. Will others refer to this in their arguments? Definitely.

And kindly drop the personal attacks.

EDIT : Anyway, I guess the difference of opinion here comes from the fact that I think some censorship is always needed. Things that can negatively impact a society as a whole - promoting senseless violence is such a thing for me, goes under harm principle for me and thus does not get freedom of expression. Nothing else to it.

 

[tidy]

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