How does dual monitor support work on a ATI 9800PRO?

[Salvador]

I'm just curious. I'm having a tough time deciding between the 9800PRO and the 9800PRO AIW. The only thing that's keeping me from making the decision to just go with the AIW is that the 9800PRO has dual monitor support and the AIW does not.

That being said.. How does the dual monitor work exactly? Are both monitors on at the same time or can you just run one at a time? If you can run both monitors at a time, can you have something different on both monitors or would it be like an expanded desktop?

Someone has already mentioned that there is no dual dvi support, so you'd either have to run both monitors in VGA (one with a DVI to VGA adapater) or run the one with DVI and the other with VGA.

One of the things that I thought about doing was hooking up my 21" CRT for gaming and videos and then hook up my 18" LCD on the DVI for everything else. Would this be a good set up and would it work the way that I want it to? That is running a game on the CRT while I have the desktop free on the LCD?

TIA,

Sal

 

[acemcmac]

It works just great, but I always prefer to run my secondary monitors off of a secondary video card. I have a 9100 PCI I'll be looking to sell soon 😉

But yeah, just get the 5$ dvi adapter and you're all set. They usually come with the retail cards. THe only time that the 5$ adapter doesent work is when you're talking about the older cards... the ones based on DVI-I instead of DVI-D... like the 8500/9100's. Not only do they not support dual head, they dont even take the adapter b/c different pin out. They need like a 200$ modulator instead lol. GL. :beer:

 

[acemcmac]

Furthermore:

Extended desktop IS different stuff on both monitors... you COULD mirror, but why? go look into a little app called ultramon. It MAKES the dual monitor experience happen :beer: My current res is 1024x2560.

 

[Salvador]

I never thought about using a secondary PCI card. You get the same effect then? If I'm using an LCD for things like web surfing, email, etc.. I don't even need a very good 3d card. Just something that would play the occasional video that someone posts.

What I meant by how the dual monitor set up works is if it just extends the desktop area to another monitor or if you can start a game on one monitor and then still surf the internet with the other monitor. That way I could pause the game, but still keep it up on the screen and then go back to it quickly. I'm sure there are other uses, but I'm just giving an example.

Thanks again.

Sal

 

[rbV5]

THe only time that the 5$ adapter doesent work is when you're talking about the older cards... the ones based on DVI-I instead of DVI-D

The other way around. The models that ommited the optional external RAMDAC in the R200 cards used the DVI-D (DVI-digital) connector. The DVI-I connector contains both analog and digital pins. This is no longer a issue since the RAMDAC are now embedded in the core on all the models, so 2 monitor connectors means dual head/dual RAMDAC everytime with the Radeon cards.

 

[acemcmac]

Yeah... I don't really know how it works without Ultramon... I wouldnt even consider using duals if it wasnt for that utility. It just makes multiple monitors so much more friendly...

I havent found a single thing my 9100 wont do, and I always run games on the 98 anyway :beer:

 

[acemcmac]

Originally posted by: rbV5

THe only time that the 5$ adapter doesent work is when you're talking about the older cards... the ones based on DVI-I instead of DVI-D

The other way around. The models that ommited the optional external RAMDAC in the R200 cards used the DVI-D (DVI-digital) connector. The DVI-I connector contains both analog and digital pins. This is no longer a issue since the RAMDAC are now embedded in the core on all the models, so 2 monitor connectors means dual head/dual RAMDAC everytime with the Radeon cards.

mmm tyvm. That helps me in my emergency card replacement dilema too....

 

[rbV5]

I never thought about using a secondary PCI card. You get the same effect then?

Be advised that AFAIK, enabling the secondary PCI card will disable the WDM drivers for the AIW, in other words..no TV tuner, or video capture while its enabled. It was that way when I used my original AIW, so perhaps they've fixed it, but not that I know of..just so you're aware that it maybe an issue.

 

[Salvador]

Oh man.. I still can't make a decision here on if I want the 9800PRO or 9800 PRO AIW. One of the things that bugs me about the AIW card is that it only has a DVI connection. I can't get a straight answer if the DVI to VGA adapter kills some video perfomance when you use a CRT that's only VGA.

acemcmac: Why do you prefer using a second card for a secondary monitor over using the dual monitor on the 9800 PRO? Just curious.

Sal

 

[acemcmac]

Originally posted by: Salvador
Oh man.. I still can't make a decision here on if I want the 9800PRO or 9800 PRO AIW. One of the things that bugs me about the AIW card is that it only has a DVI connection. I can't get a straight answer if the DVI to VGA adapter kills some video perfomance when you use a CRT that's only VGA.

acemcmac: Why do you prefer using a second card for a secondary monitor over using the dual monitor on the 9800 PRO? Just curious.

Sal

I cant notice the signal difference between straight vga and dvi-vga... I wouldnt worry about it.

I've always been a pretty serious gamer and I really like having the 9800 dedicated to the primary monitor. I have a lot of dual monitor friends and I'ts always been our common belief that splitting the primary reduced performance by partitioning the power first between displays, and then allocating the appliation. Regardless of the vailidity of this, when I want to watch a Divx and play UT2003 at the same time, I can only do it because I have 2 VPU's. Now that I want to add a 3rd CRT, I have to upgrade the 9100 to something that can supprt 2 monitors on its own... but the money is "use it or loose it tonight," hence my other thread 😉

 

[rbV5]

I can't get a straight answer if the DVI to VGA adapter kills some video perfomance when you use a CRT that's only VGA.

C'mon now, I know I answered that one for you twice in your other thread🙂 No it does not.

 

[acemcmac]

Originally posted by: rbV5

I can't get a straight answer if the DVI to VGA adapter kills some video perfomance when you use a CRT that's only VGA.

C'mon now, I know I answered that one for you twice in your other thread🙂 No it does not.

lol, im so glad we're acually having a discussion here 😀

this is the first live discussion ive ever been in outside of OT :beer:

 

[rbV5]

Take a look at this Article on using a DVI-I splitter to give you 1)DVI-D for your LCD + 1)VGA for your CRT. I mentioned it in your other thread. You might send of an email to Pacific Custom Cable, as I remember someone mentioning he would refund the purchase if it didn't work for you. Worth a consideration IMHO.

 

[Salvador]

C'mon now, I know I answered that one for you twice in your other thread No it does not

Sorry. I don't remember that particular question being answered. Thanks for repeating it for me though. 😀

I just read the article about the adapter to do dual display with the AIW. A couple of things bothered me. One is that people have issues with it. Sure you can return the adapter, but then you can't do dual display with the card unless you go with another video card. The second thing that bothered me was that the reviewer said that this splitter or adapter actually gave better video performance through the VGA than with the supplied adapter. I thought that it didn't make a difference?

I think I'm leaning towards the regular 9800PRO simply because I still have a CRT that I want to use. Being able to hook up a CRT through VGA and a LCD through DVI is also a plus for me.

I do really want the added features of the AIW. Maybe I'll get an AIW for another machine down the road or get a lesser AIW used to try out like a 8500 AIW. The card doesn't have to be as fast if I'm just using it for the tv and capture functions, does it?

I don't even know if I'm going to use the AIW features anyway. I have digital cable and I don't know how that would interface. The box says 125 channels, but I have more than 125 channels. If I couldn't record things like the Speed Channel, it would be worthless to me. Does anyone know how the AIW tv functions interface with digital cable?

The last thing is video editing. If I had the 9800PRO along with some good software and a firewire port, would the AIW be of any benefit to me over the regular 9800PRO?

Sorry for all of the addtional questions. This post has kind of morphed into something different from my original question. Sorry about that. I'm just having a tough time making a decision here.

Thanks again.

Sal

 

[rbV5]

The second thing that bothered me was that the reviewer said that this splitter or adapter actually gave better video performance through the VGA than with the supplied adapter. I thought that it didn't make a difference?

Shouldn't make a difference, the adaptor simply uses the analog pins from the DVI-I port. Every user using an AIW with a CRT uses the same adaptor. I've owned several AIW cards, using the adaptor with every one and I can't tell any difference over using the VGA with no adaptor on my 8500le. I use a large 22" monitor at higher resolutions and refresh rate.

The card doesn't have to be as fast if I'm just using it for the tv and capture functions, does it?

Not at all, although you need the 9600/9700/9800 series to use the hardware video soap and MPEG assist and any of them from AIW 9000 up use the newer Theater 200 chip.

I have digital cable and I don't know how that would interface. The box says 125 channels, but I have more than 125 channels. If I couldn't record things like the Speed Channel, it would be worthless to me. Does anyone know how the AIW tv functions interface with digital cable?

I have digital cable as well. To record the digital cable channels you have to use the output from the STB. Connecting the cable directly to the AIW gives me just the analog cable channels. Think of it like your TV or VCR. I use it to record the digital cable that way, but its not nearly as handy as using the Guide+ interactive guide.

The last thing is video editing. If I had the 9800PRO along with some good software and a firewire port, would the AIW be of any benefit to me over the regular 9800PRO?

The benefit would be from using the video shaders in the Pinnacle software, which I believe are only exposed in the AIW cards even though the regular 9800pro uses the same GPU. Definately not a deal breaker, its not a powerful feature yet. With the dual heads, the 9800pro has advantages over the AIW in an editing environment IMHO.

Sorry for all of the addtional questions. This post has kind of morphed into something different from my original question. Sorry about that. I'm just having a tough time making a decision here.

Don't be, thats what these forums are for! You can't have to much information to make an informed decision, and someone else may benefit also. You don't want buyers remorse after you find you don't have what you need.

 

[Salvador]

Don't be, thats what these forums are for! You can't have to much information to make an informed decision, and someone else may benefit also. You don't want buyers remorse after you find you don't have what you need.

Thanks so much for your information and thanks for understanding about all the questions. Hopefully, some of this information will help others. I don't want to be the guy on the fs/ft forums wanting to trade a 9800PRO AIW for a 9800PRO plus cash. 😉

Could you please elaborate on why the 9800PRO has the advantage over the AIW in the video editing dept? From what you said, it sounded like the AIW had more features with the Pinnacle software and then you said that the 9800PRO has the edge.

I'm almost thinking about buying the 9800PRO for my main system to use for gaming, video editing, etc.. and then buying a 9000 or 9600 AIW for an A/V system. I wouldn't need the graphics power for gaming with an A/V system and by what you said, I'd have all the extra goodies that the 9800/9700/ AIW series have. Does that sound like a good plan? Would I be missing anything with the 9000/9600 AIW over the 9800PRO AIW if I use it for a dedicated A/V system?

What is hardware video soap and MPEG assist? Does MPEG assist only help you with analog video? Would it be worthwhile to go to a 9600 AIW over a 9000 series if I were to use it as a card for an A/V system?

Thanks so much again.

Sal

 

[Alptraum]

I think he was saying the regular 9800pro will have an advantage in video editing due to the native dual monitor support.

 

[oldfart]

I'll chime in here too. Its a complex topic. When you capture DV video, it can be done basically, one of two ways. You can capture it in raw AVI format (with the DV codec) or do a real time MPEG2 conversion during capture.

I dont use or like the latter because
a) reduced quality. It is very difficult to do real time MPEG encoding without a very expensive piece of hardware. The MPEG assist is of very little value if any at all. For best results, capture in AVI, do your editing, then render to MPEG in whatever format will be the final product.
b) editing a video is much more difficult when it is in MPEG format. In particular, the program I use, Pinnacle Studio 8 does not work well when trying to edit a video that is already in MPEG format. Again, capture in best quality AVI, do the editing, then render to MPEG. This will get you the best results.

this is why all you really need is a firewire port for working with DV video. Analog is another story. If you are doing that, or are recording TV shows, the AIW features are handy.