How does 7850 compare to 5850, clock for clock?

Discussion in 'Video Cards and Graphics' started by The Sauce, Apr 21, 2012.

  1. The Sauce

    The Sauce Diamond Member

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    I tend to be a bargain mid-range GPU buyer and generally overclock the crap out of them. I only game occasionally these days but I like the eye candy when I do. I have $460 in Amazon rewards points sitting in that account at the moment waiting to be blown on something I don't need. Stuck with the dilemma of deciding whether to upgrade my GPU to a 7850, go balls-out for a 7900 series or Kepler, or upgrade my monitor to a 120Hz. I only run a 23" single monitor at standard resolutions, in general. Thoughts?
     
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  3. BallaTheFeared

    BallaTheFeared Diamond Member

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    Since it's not a major need right now it would probably be best to see what Nvidia offers as far as the two lesser gk104 cards go. If anything it will shake up AMD's current mid ranged price monopoly.
     
  4. Freddy1765

    Freddy1765 Senior member

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    Well, the recently-announced MSI 7850 Power Edition apparently offers more control over voltage regulation, so it should enhance the already excellent OC potential of the 7850s.
    I'm getting one of those myself once they hit the shelves!
    Food for thought..
     
  5. The Sauce

    The Sauce Diamond Member

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    The big question about upgrading to a 7850 is, how much better is it than a 5850? I probably wouldn't buy it for less than a 50% improvement.
     
  6. aaksheytalwar

    aaksheytalwar Diamond Member

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    A stock 7850 is going to be a lot faster than a stock 5850. Something like 30-60% faster on an average and perhaps even faster with a lot of tesselation involved. An oced 7850 will be nearly twice as fast as an oced 5850. Don't expect things to be get much better for at least another 6-12 months down.
     
  7. BallaTheFeared

    BallaTheFeared Diamond Member

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    Woah twice as fast? Man I thought the 470 and 5850 were closer than that performance wise.
     
  8. Jaydip

    Jaydip Diamond Member

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  9. toyota

    toyota Lifer

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    #8 toyota, Apr 21, 2012
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2012
  10. railven

    railven Diamond Member

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    If you want 50% + you're looking at minimum HD 7950, or a nicely OC'de HD 7870.

    If I were you, and I had a ~$460 budget, I'd look at monitors and see what you can squeeze in. The HD 7850 OC's nicely and will get into GTX 580/HD 7950 stock territory (of course this will depend on the card you get.) That leaves you about ~$200-230 change left, find a decent monitor in that range.

    A little of both worlds. :)
     
  11. aaksheytalwar

    aaksheytalwar Diamond Member

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    Just compare 5850 to 6970. Stock vs stock the performance diff is about 30-40%+ and in games with tesselation at least 40-60%.

    When overclocked, the 5850 will probably perform 10-15% faster with a 20-30% oc. With a 40% oc the 7850 will probably perform 30-35% faster.

    So instead of being 40% faster stock vs stock, the oced 7850 will be like 50-60% faster in almost all cases and in some cases of extreme tesselation it will easily be nearly twice as fast.

    To compare an oced 5850 vs oced 7850. Just check reviews of 5870 vs 7950 or 5870 vs 580 oced.
     
  12. aaksheytalwar

    aaksheytalwar Diamond Member

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    Acc to this review, stock vs stock the difference varies from 20-50% on avg with some greater variations. Ocing both will increase that difference by at least 20% as well so in most cases the difference will be a minimum of 40-60% and minimum FPS will be even better.

    http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/512?vs=549

    http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/2012-vga-gpgpu/19-Tom-s-Hardware-Index-C-Extreme,2977.html

    Even according to toms, as you game at high settings, 19x10 with AA or 25x14 without AA or 19x10 without AA for intensive games, stock vs stock the difference is at least 30-40%. And with overclocking both, the difference will easily cross 50% on average and nearing 100% with the most intensive games as has been shown with AT's bench as well.

    http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/HD_7870_Twin_Frozr/26.html

    Even according to this review, at 19x12 and 25x14, without AA, the 7850 is 30-35% faster with average FPS when both are at stock. With minimum FPS the difference will probably be close to 40-50%+ or so. And when both are overclocked, the difference will be even greater because:

    1. Although the 5850 is a good overclocker, the 7850 is much much better in terms of % oc.

    2. The 5850 doesn't scale much with oc, while the 7850 scales nearly linearly.

    3. A high oc on the 5850 will increase performance by at most 10-15% so it will come in the 5870 1 gb league and in games with tessalation (all new games of 2012 and beyond) it won't be significantly better than a 6870 and may often be worse. This is after the overclock.
    An oced 7850 however will perform close to a 7950 stock or 7870 high oc onced overclocked which means an additional performance of at least 30%+ and the 2gb VRAM makes it future safe at decent settings for at least 1-2 years down.

    4. Stock 5850 = x
    Stock 7850 = 1.3 x range varies from 1.2 x - 1.5 x and often nearly 2 x, but mostly within 1.4 x.

    Oced 5850 = 1.1x - 1.15x
    Oced 7850 = 1.3 X 1.3 x approx = 1.69 x = 1.7 x

    1.7 x / 1.1 x = about 50-60% performance gain when both are overclocked without much tesselation/AA/AF/no need of 2gb vram. With games which require tesselation or VRAM, the difference will be nearly twice the performance.

    It is like saying that going from a 1 gb 6950 stock to 3gb 580 oc isn't a worth it deal when the prices are pretty reasonable.
     
    #11 aaksheytalwar, Apr 21, 2012
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2012
  13. railven

    railven Diamond Member

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    I'm not sure who you are talking to, but when I did my research stock HD 7970 was 40-50% faster than a stock HD 5870.

    A stock HD 5870 is about ~15-20% faster than a stock HD 5850. A stock HD 7970 is about 30-40% faster than a stock HD 7850. Outside of OCs (which will vary from user to user) I have no idea how you are claiming an HD 7850 is 30-60% faster than an HD 5850.

    Even your examples seem to only prove your point in tessellation heavy games (Batman:AC/Crysis 2) but in most games the difference is not even close to what you are claiming as an average.

    EDIT: You also used your lowest range for the HD 5850 OC and then rounded up for the HD 7850, using proper ranges it is <50% using your numbers, and again these aren't garaunteed results.
     
    #12 railven, Apr 21, 2012
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2012
  14. Jaydip

    Jaydip Diamond Member

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    Even @ two top resolutions 7850 is only around 20% faster than 5850 according to TPU
    http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/HD_7870_Twin_Frozr/26.html
    i.e. according to your own link
     
  15. railven

    railven Diamond Member

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    Okay, because I'm not finding your numbers you'll have to back them up:

    Using this provided link:
    http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/HD_7870_Twin_Frozr/26.html
    @19x12
    HD 5850 == 66% HD 7850 == 85%, difference is 19% - no where near the +30% range
    @25x16
    HD 5850 == 61%, HD 7850 == 82%, difference is 21% - still not seeing this +30% range

    Are you using the HD 7870 for your numbers, because that ist he only place I see >30% differences.

    Even on this link:
    http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/2012-vga-gpgpu/compare,2977.html?prod%5B5454%5D=on&prod%5B5398%5D=on
    The HD 7850 is no where near +30% faster, and not an HD 6950 1GB is 5-10% faster than a stock HD 5850.

    On this link:
    http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/512?vs=549
    Crysis 2 and Batman 2 are the only games showing huge scaling in the >30%, most are within 20-30%
     
  16. aaksheytalwar

    aaksheytalwar Diamond Member

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    I really can't help it if a person doesn't know to calculate using elementary maths.

    According to the link you posted:

    At 25x14:
    82/61 = 1.344 = 35%

    At 19x12
    85/66 = 1.28 approx = 28%

    This is stock vs stock. And the difference will increase with AA/AF/tesselation/minimum FPS/newer games etc.
    Overclocked difference will be nearly double. I can't explain without basic maths, sorry.

    Now, 7970 stock vs 6970 stock, difference is 45% approx. 7970 oc vs 6970 oc is about 65-70%, I own both cards so you don't need to tell me.

    Now, 5870 stock vs 7970 stock
    At 25x14
    130/73 = 1.78 = about 78%

    At 19x12,
    125/78 = approx 60%

    And minimum FPS will probably be 100% faster not 60%. And 60% means that in less intensive games you are just 30-40% faster, but in more intensive games you are 75-100% faster avg fps and minimum FPS will be even greater.

    i really can't help it if somebody doesn't know how to read charts. Sorry.
     
    #15 aaksheytalwar, Apr 21, 2012
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2012
  17. aaksheytalwar

    aaksheytalwar Diamond Member

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    I am sorry bro,This is not how you read a chart. Read my above comment. This is basic maths.
     
  18. BallaTheFeared

    BallaTheFeared Diamond Member

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    Yeah I didn't think my OC 470s were that much faster than the 5850, I mean maybe in select tess heavy games like Crysis 2 and Batman AC, but not on avg.


    [​IMG]
     
    #17 BallaTheFeared, Apr 21, 2012
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2012
  19. toyota

    toyota Lifer

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    yeah going from 66% to 85% is 30% improvement not 19%.
     
  20. Jaydip

    Jaydip Diamond Member

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    ;)
     
    #19 Jaydip, Apr 21, 2012
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2012
  21. toyota

    toyota Lifer

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    never mind
     
    #20 toyota, Apr 21, 2012
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2012
  22. aaksheytalwar

    aaksheytalwar Diamond Member

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    Acc to AT BENCH

    Metro 2033.
    38/29.5 = 29% improvement

    Dirt 3 minimum FPS
    63/46 = 37% improvement approx, avg FPS diff is lower.

    Shogun 2
    71/57 = 25% diff

    Portal 2 is irrelevant because it runs perfect on ancient hardware.

    BF3, 32/25 = 28% improvement

    Starcraft, 30% improvement.

    Civilization V, 100% improvement.

    Unigine,
    45% improvement

    On an average 30-40% improvement stock vs stock in current games which a few games with 50-100% improvement. This means minimum FPS on an average would be 40-50%+ better even in current games. And a 30% overclock on a 7850 is sort of a given.
     
  23. aaksheytalwar

    aaksheytalwar Diamond Member

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    I can't help you. You are beyond being helped. One bench from one website with results which match that of no other user on the planet means zilch. I have shown several top websites including some of you guys where I have proved my point.

    If you want to commit suicide and make the wrong decision, be my guest. As if I care a damn if you make the wrong decision. I was just trying to help.

    An on an avg 470 is about 5-15% faster than a 5850. So 470 SLI is on an average 60-100%+ faster than a 5850 stock. A 470 stock SLI competes with 580 stock or oc.
     
    #22 aaksheytalwar, Apr 21, 2012
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2012
  24. railven

    railven Diamond Member

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    My apologies, I didn't do the math properly in my TUP calculations, but the AT and THG I didn't have percentages, I did the calcs for a few games and didn't get >30% on majority. It seem to be more 20-25% with Crysis 2 and Batman: AC being in the >30% range.

    Even your own numbers (where you used the lowest range for the 5850) would have been 1.69/1.15 == <50%.
     
  25. aaksheytalwar

    aaksheytalwar Diamond Member

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    I have calculated for each game. All games are above 25%, and most are +-30% stock vs stock.

    1.15 on the 5850 isn't a given but the max it may touch. 1.69 on the 7850 is assured under every circumstance.

    So a 45% difference in avg FPS is guaranteed irrespective of everything. But in a more realistic situation it is going to be 50-75% avg FPS and 60-100% minimum FPS.

    I can't waste more time. I tried to help. The OP can decide whatever he wants, if you need more help with details, please PM me. I am tired of fighting.
     
  26. BallaTheFeared

    BallaTheFeared Diamond Member

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    Woah, no reason to get hostile here.

    Heh, a bit over dramatic there aren't we?