how do you weigh when to call it quits on a car?

[rasczak]

A while back I had a thread here about my 99 passat quitting on my wife while she sat at a stop light. I was finally able to put some time into looking at the problem and did find, which some of you pointed out) that the timing belt did break. Considering what type of engine it was (1.8 t aeb. interference type) I have a strong feeling that there will be valve damage. I also found some minimal cracks on the head (between the spark plugs).

Per KBB the car is worth $3400 in good working condition (which i know it's now, but that's middle of the road if the car were running.) As I've stated before I am not well versed in cars,can do minimal repair, but this is bigger than I realized.

options:
1. I've priced out the cost of the parts to roughly $1100 if I do the repairs myself (which I'm unsure of).

2. I've also gone and found a mechanic who would give me a 3year warranty and do an engine rebuild for $1700.

3. And of course there's the dealership which could run upwards of $3500 or more.

4. Junking it for $300

5. Parting it out and then junking it.

prior to the car dying on me, I purchased four new tires ($450) as well as a new Mass Air Flow Sensor ($200) which would have brought the total cost to $2350.

I like the $1700 dollar option, but that's a lot of money to put into a car that's worth $3400.

So my question is what would you do in my situation?

 

[CraigRT]

I would fix it, but of course I would do the job myself.. Parts would be a hundred or 2 max if the head is not damaged. if it is, dont know what VW parts are worth. That is the difference when buying a used car if you aren't going to maintain it yourself, vs maintaining it yourself.

So it makes the answer different for everyone.

I'd most definitely keep it unless I hated the car. That is of course just my .02.

 

[rasczak]

You know what, you're right. What's there to lose? If I am unsuccessful in fixing the car, I am only out on the parts I purchased, which i could turn around and sell on the internet anyway.

 

[lavaheadache]

on vw vortex a complete aeb engine can be had for less than 1k nevermind a complete useable head.

 

[rasczak]

on vw vortex a complete aeb engine can be had for less than 1k nevermind a complete useable head.

got a link? I've not been able to find anything less than $2000.

 

[exdeath]

I don't let my cars get to such a state that they cost more to fix than they are worth. Just fix it yourself, use a torque wrench and take you time and have a fun experience. It's not as scary as it seems, and it will be rewarding like no other when all your self doubt is obliterated when you start it up for the first time.

 

[rasczak]

I don't let my cars get to such a state that they cost more to fix than they are worth. Just fix it yourself, use a torque wrench and take you time and have a fun experience. It's not as scary as it seems, and it will be rewarding like no other when all your self doubt is obliterated when you start it up for the first time.

Yea, I know. I am really kicking myself because I had thought about replacing the timing belt about 6 months prior to it actually breaking. Boneheaded move I know, but my first priority at that point was buying the MAF since that was the biggest problem. I actually just told the wife I was going to do the repairs myself. I'll start with replacing the belt and water pump (might as well since I'm in there. Then do a compression test to check for bent valves. (pretty sure there will be a few.)

 

[Painman]

I had a look at your previous thread - What you state as your first plan of action (TB, WP, compression test) is a good starting point. Replace the tensioner/idler puilleys and the tensioner too. You might luck out and have no valve damage, but your engine is definitely, absolutely, 100% certainly an interference type, so be prepared for the possibility of head replacement.

If the compression test is bad, then pull the head (you'll need a Polydrive to remove the head bolts). That'll save you some labor cost, and then you can get further assessment of the damage without towing the car around.

Take some photos of the piston crowns and post 'em here. Since it was a low RPM failure, they'll probably be OK. I don't like the sound of cracks in the head casting between the spark plugs, though. Have that head examined thoroughly by a reputable local engine shop. They can tell you more Re: repair vs. replacement.

Good luck, and replace your TB and and everything it touches within 75K next time.

 

[T2urtle]

Just fix it yourself, use a torque wrench and take you time and have a fun experience. It's not as scary as it seems, and it will be rewarding like no other when all your self doubt is obliterated when you start it up for the first time.

+1 on that BUT, if you fire it up and it doesn't work... you loose a lot of hair and tools start flying...

i would do the belt, pump and tensioner. get a compression but more importantly do a leak down test. from there, if its crap, i would get a used motor installed. if the piston and valve are messed up it will cost more to tear down and replace.

not on a passat but i got a jetta/gti 1.8T motor from LKQ with warranty for $1800 shipped. And a TDI head was $1500 from LKQ since i couldn't get a whole engine.

but i would not bother with the engine replacement. Spend $200 on the belt and pump and then if its dead then just part out the car. lots of VW nuts on vortex and etc. Make a couple hundred and then tow the car.

 

[HarryLui]

I'd opt for the mechanic if I were in your position.

 

[DivideBYZero]

I'd go the Part-it-out route and get something else

 

[StageLeft]

Pay $1700 and get it going again. First of all it's ridiculous to not pay for that repair with the vehicle worth twice as much, so even if you turn around and sell it on craigslist it's still worth doing. Second, just because a repair costs more than the car is otherwise worth does not mean it's the wrong decision. My kids are worth more to me than I could get on the open market so value to me is often different than fair market value, not just of human children but also of other things.

 

[halik]

You should be able to get this wrapped up for 300-400 bucks.

Also you'll definitely have some bent valves. without question.

 

[Vette73]

You should be able to get this wrapped up for 300-400 bucks.

Also you'll definitely have some bent valves. without question.

How did you come to that number?

The timing belt kit is $180, the head gasket set is $120, intake valves are $4.50 each, exhust valves are $10.50 each, thermostat $5, water pump $35, etc...

Hes pushing $400 easy before the head even hits the machine shop and that is if its ok.
I had to do a rebuild of my Turbo 4cyl Saab so it adds up real quick. European cars are not as reliable as most American/Asian ones and cost more on most of the parts as well.

 

[PricklyPete]

How many miles is on this thing? I'd put $1700 into it and get it back in working order unless there is an ungodly amount of miles on the car. '99 is not that old and that $1700 is a hell of a lot less than what you'll put into a new car.

 

[rasczak]

I had a look at your previous thread - What you state as your first plan of action (TB, WP, compression test) is a good starting point. Replace the tensioner/idler puilleys and the tensioner too. You might luck out and have no valve damage, but your engine is definitely, absolutely, 100% certainly an interference type, so be prepared for the possibility of head replacement.

If the compression test is bad, then pull the head (you'll need a Polydrive to remove the head bolts). That'll save you some labor cost, and then you can get further assessment of the damage without towing the car around.

Take some photos of the piston crowns and post 'em here. Since it was a low RPM failure, they'll probably be OK. I don't like the sound of cracks in the head casting between the spark plugs, though. Have that head examined thoroughly by a reputable local engine shop. They can tell you more Re: repair vs. replacement.

Good luck, and replace your TB and and everything it touches within 75K next time.

I am properly chastised. hehe. I will definitely take pictures. I wanted to do the entire process of replacing the valves myself. If I go that far then I'll probably do a write-up and post it here for future reference.

 

[rasczak]

how many miles is on this thing? I'd put $1700 into it and get it back in working order unless there is an ungodly amount of miles on the car. '99 is not that old and that $1700 is a hell of a lot less than what you'll put into a new car.

125,000.

 

[halik]

How did you come to that number?

The timing belt kit is $180, the head gasket set is $120, intake valves are $4.50 each, exhust valves are $10.50 each, thermostat $5, water pump $35, etc...

Hes pushing $400 easy before the head even hits the machine shop and that is if its ok.
I had to do a rebuild of my Turbo 4cyl Saab so it adds up real quick. European cars are not as reliable as most American/Asian ones and cost more on most of the parts as well.

Used head for ~$250 (it's 1.8T, everyone and their ma has one sitting around), head gasket is ~$28 bucks, $20 for head bots, $15 for water pump, $20 for the belt. Figure extra 50 bucks for misc roller and what not and you're still in that price range.

1.8T is by far the cheapest german motor to service - huge aftermarket parts base.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

When they start to cost more to keep than to replace. (including the cost of working around when they break down) The more work you can do yourself and the more you can deal with problems the longer the car will last.

 

[PricklyPete]

125,000.

Yeah...I'd definitely spend the 1700 and try to get a few more years out of it.

 

[bruceb]

If the body and interior are still in good shape and you have the time to spend on it, and alternate transportation, then try to fix it yourself. If nothing else, you will get some good experience doing that type of repair.

 

[Vette73]

Used head for ~$250 (it's 1.8T, everyone and their ma has one sitting around), head gasket is ~$28 bucks, $20 for head bots, $15 for water pump, $20 for the belt. Figure extra 50 bucks for misc roller and what not and you're still in that price range.

1.8T is by far the cheapest german motor to service - huge aftermarket parts base.

Where are you getting those prices? The numbers I gave are direct from rockauto. That and you think he can get by without the intake gasket? Exhust? stem seals? Put a used head on without seeing a machine shop?

If you want him to to a shitty hack job then yea. If he does it right it will be no where near your numbers.
I saw cars fixed like you are describing all the time when I ran my shop. They were always a nice flow of work for me when I had to go back and do it right.

OP if you are going to do the work, do it right or just part it out.

 

[halik]

Where are you getting those prices? The numbers I gave are direct from rockauto. That and you think he can get by without the intake gasket? Exhust? stem seals? Put a used head on without seeing a machine shop?

If you want him to to a shitty hack job then yea. If he does it right it will be no where near your numbers.
I saw cars fixed like you are describing all the time when I ran my shop. They were always a nice flow of work for me when I had to go back and do it right.

OP if you are going to do the work, do it right or just part it out.

Straight out of google shopping search. Reinz makes the head gaskets and bolts for dirt cheap.

And yeah, 1.8T comes with metal exhaust gaskets that you can reuse, and you can reuse intake gaskets without much issue. Otherwise it's extra $3.

You don't need to deck a head that's not warped and 1.8T heads aren't prone to warping unless they overheat. Either can you can check whether it's in spec per Bentley.

That "do it right" FUD is great for a new car with some random failure, not a 10 year old VW with 100K miles. With this approach, you'll still get another 100K miles out of it, with ease. Or you can spent a grand on a machined head with all new stems and million angle valve job and then put it on a $3K car with 150K mile lower end... makes total economic sense.

 

[StageLeft]

With a good body you could private it for $4k.

 

[desy]

Fix it
look like your net money ahead if you sell it over the other options