How do we decide which way is "North" on other planets?

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
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The question popped into my head. I found this:

http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=5324

Which way is north on your new planet?

So, here you are in your starship, happily settling into orbit around an Earthlike world you intend to survey for colonization. You start mapping, and are immediately presented with a small but vexing question: which rotational pole should you designate as ‘North’?

There are a surprisingly large number of ways one could answer this question. I shall wander through them in this essay, which is really about the linguistic and emotive significance of compass-direction words as humans use them. Then I shall suggest a pragmatic resolution.


First and most obviously, there’s magnetic north. Our assumption ‘the planet is Earthlike’ entails a nice strong magnetic field to keep local carbon-based lifeforms from getting constantly mutated into B-movie monsters by incoming charged particles. Magnetic north is probably going to be much closer to one pole than the other; we could call that ‘North’.

Then there’s spin-axis north. This is the assignment that makes north relate to the planet’s rotation the same way it does on Earth – that is, it implies the sun setting in the west rather than the east. Not necessarily the same as magnetic north; I don’t know of any reason to think planetary magnetic fields have a preferred relationship to the spin axis.

Next, galactic north. Earth’s orbital plane is inclined about 26% from the rotational plane of the Milky Way, which defines the Galaxy’s spin-axis directions; these have been labeled ‘Galactic North” and “Galactic South” in accordance with the Earth rotational poles they most closely match. On our new planet we could flip this around and define planetary North so it matches Galactic North.

Finally there’s habitability north. This one is fuzzier. More than 3/4ths of earth’s population lives in places where north is colder and south is warmer. We might want to choose ‘North’ to preserve that relationship, which is embedded pretty deeply in the language and folklore of most of Earth’s cultures. Thus, ‘North’ should be the hemisphere with the most habitable land. (Or, if you’re taking a shorter-term view, the hemisphere in which you drop your first settlement. But let’s ignore that complication for now.)

If all four criteria coincide, happiness. But how likely is that? They’re probably distributed randomly with respect to each other, which means we’ll probably get perfect agreement on only one in every sixteen exoplanets.

But not all these criteria are equally important. Magnetic North really only matters to geophysicists and compass-makers. Galactic North is probably interesting only to stargazers.

I think we have a clear winner if spin-axis north coincides with habitability north. This choice will preserve continuity of language pretty well. If they’re opposite, and galactic north coincides with magnetic north, that’s a tiebreaker. If the tiebreakers don’t settle it, I’d go with spin-axis north.

But reasonable people could differ on this. Discuss; maybe we could submit a proposal to the IAU.

Apparently, there are multiple ways you might choose to determine "North."

  • Magnetic North (will flip over time, but hasn't happened since before recorded human history)
  • Rotational North (based on sun rising in the East)
  • Galactic North (in a way, still relative to Earth)

I'm inclined to go with magnetic North (at the time of the object's discovery) even though that doesn't always align with the axis of rotation. It's probably close enough to one end of the axis.

I might have a difficult time deciding if an object in question has no magnetic field and / or is not part of a solar system. What if the object has no perceptible rotation relative to anything nearby?

HR nailed it:
Too easy.

Find the pole that has penguins. North is the opposite one.
 
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SunnyD

Belgian Waffler
Jan 2, 2001
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We use Rotational North on Earth. The others are less relevant.

We do? I'm pretty sure we use magnetic north given that every traditional compass says so. Cartographers fixated on magnetic north because it hasn't changed during humanity's written lifespan.

This thread also makes me ask the question - in space, which way is "up"?
 

DaTT

Garage Moderator
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Feb 13, 2003
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Up is always North....according to most women.
 

Rakehellion

Lifer
Jan 15, 2013
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We do? I'm pretty sure we use magnetic north, given that every compass says so. Cartographers fixated on magnetic north because it hasn't changed during humanity's written lifespan.

This thread also makes me ask the question - in space, which way is "up"?

Magnetic North changes all the time. Rotation doesn't.

A compass points magnetic North, which isn't the same direction as it says on your map.
 

DesiPower

Lifer
Nov 22, 2008
15,299
740
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One way to look at it is, why do you need to know which way is North. If its for Navigation then is it really that important to know? The important thing is the navigational instrument or process, what is the point of reference, the point of reference might as well be a star in the sky. If the navigational instrument is more like a compass then the orientation of whatever is moving the needle is important to know. For mapping purposes, any point of reference can be chosen and called a pole and all directions can be documented based on that. To debate where is the "North Pole" just so that we can find Santa is futile.
 

DaTT

Garage Moderator
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Feb 13, 2003
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We use rotational, magnetic, and galactic. That will be true until the magnetic pole flips. Then we won't use magnetic north anymore.

Can't forget Construction North.
 

SunnyD

Belgian Waffler
Jan 2, 2001
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Magnetic North changes all the time. Rotation doesn't.

A compass points magnetic North, which isn't the same direction as it says on your map.

Yes, magnetic north changes "all the time", but not during the time spans of human history which is why north is north for us.

And yes, rotation does change - the earth's axis wobbles. So I guess it's settled, galactic north it is then.
 

randay

Lifer
May 30, 2006
11,018
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we dont decide north, north is north. its not in any way arbitrarily decided.
 

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
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One way to look at it is, why do you need to know which way is North. If its for Navigation then is it really that important to know? The important thing is the navigational instrument or process, what is the point of reference, the point of reference might as well be a star in the sky. If the navigational instrument is more like a compass then the orientation of whatever is moving the needle is important to know. For mapping purposes, any point of reference can be chosen and called a pole and all directions can be documented based on that. To debate where is the "North Pole" just so that we can find Santa is futile.

That's right. You have to choose a point to even start creating a map. To start navigating, how would you find that point that is not tied to the actual rotation or to the magnetic field?
 
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UncleWai

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2001
5,701
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Apparently the toronto raptors wannabe nba fans had decided they are North.
 

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
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we dont decide north, north is north. its not in any way arbitrarily decided.
Alright. Suppose there is a huge, round rock floating in space. It has no magnetic field. It is not part of a planetary system (no star). You can't even really tell if it's rotating. Which way is north? How do you even start to draw a map?
 

Ferzerp

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
6,438
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Yes, magnetic north changes "all the time", but not during the time spans of human history which is why north is north for us.

It changes by a massive amount every year. We're talking 25+ miles in a year. Just because it doesn't flip often doesn't mean it isn't always moving.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Magnetic_Pole#mediaviewer/File:Magnetic_North_Pole_Positions.svg


edit: that and the indicated north based on magnetic fields is not exactly towards that pole even. It is close, but it is always off due to local features.
 
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SunnyD

Belgian Waffler
Jan 2, 2001
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It changes by a massive amount every year. We're talking 25+ miles in a year. Just because it doesn't flip often doesn't mean it isn't always moving.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Magnetic_Pole#mediaviewer/File:Magnetic_North_Pole_Positions.svg

I didn't say it didn't change. Sheesh. Relatively speaking, north has always been north in human history. If you bust out a compass in Mexico and walk north, you're going to get to Canada eventually. It's been like that since the advent of the compass. Before that, yes, we'd have used celestial (or rotational if you'd like) north.

The OP's question is HOW will we judge "north" on a foreign planet. Presuming a magnetic field and given the options odds are we will use magnetic north as a convenient point of reference until we know more about the planet itself.

I'm still more interested on which way is "up" in space.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
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Probably because 'we' will all be dead by that point ;)

Unlikely. It should happen relatively soon. Might be next year. Might be 1000 years from now if not longer. It's overdue based on what evidence is out there.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
Alright. Suppose there is a huge, round rock floating in space. It has no magnetic field. It is not part of a planetary system (no star). You can't even really tell if it's rotating. Which way is north? How do you even start to draw a map?

Why would we waste our time with it, to the point we need factual references for North?
For simple mapping, recon, and possibly mining operations, they could just as easily make an arbitrary North and agree that all maps and operations will reference that orientation.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
72,233
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Alright. Suppose there is a huge, round rock floating in space. It has no magnetic field. It is not part of a planetary system (no star). You can't even really tell if it's rotating. Which way is north? How do you even start to draw a map?

If it's not rotating, the rock probably isn't round. :p

Anyway, since you're the first person on the non-rotating rock you get to pound a stake and declare the spot to be the 0, 0 point, pace off ten meters, pound another stake, scrawl an N on it, and start mapping. For longitude, it worked for the folks at Greenwich.
 

z1ggy

Lifer
May 17, 2008
10,010
66
91
Unlikely. It should happen relatively soon. Might be next year. Might be 1000 years from now if not longer. It's overdue based on what evidence is out there.

You trollin' or something? I didn't see a /s after that remark.. so......

wot?
 

Pulsar

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2003
5,224
306
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Yes, magnetic north changes "all the time", but not during the time spans of human history which is why north is north for us.

And yes, rotation does change - the earth's axis wobbles. So I guess it's settled, galactic north it is then.

You are 100% wrong. In fact, you can look at nautical charts because they plot both magnetic and true and show the offset - which changes significantly every year.
 

Pulsar

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2003
5,224
306
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You trollin' or something? I didn't see a /s after that remark.. so......

wot?

Why do you think he's trolling? Go do some research. The poles are overdue for a flip, based on scientific evidence.