How do we break society off the government teet?

[rudeguy]

As we stand with the poor economy, unstable job market and rising inflation, more people are turning to the government to support themselves and their families. I 1000% think there should be temporary assistance programs to help people, however we have gone far beyond that.

I am not blaming the individual, the government or any group. Its society that has made it ok for this to happen. Its no longer seen as a bad thing to live on welfare for years or decades at a time. Apparently now Disability is another option for people that don't want to work. Of course not everyone on Disability has this problem (my own mom is on it) but there are plenty of people on it who very well COULD work.

I believe a large number of the people in this situation got there through a form of evolution. Lets say their mom was a single mom and had to turn to the state for food stamps. After a while, the state will offer mom free education, rent and even a car to help. That's not a bad thing. But the child grows up seeing the government as their provider, a father figure if you will. When the child grows up and hits a rough patch, they will turn to daddy for some help. That's completely normal. But this continues the vicious cycle and it goes on and on.

Education has been tried. But there are plenty of college graduates out there getting food stamps and collecting checks. We obviously can't just cut them off and let them starve. But there is no way us working folks can continue to support all the non-working folks. So what do we do?

I have no answer but I'd really like to hear anyone else's answers.

 

[PokerGuy]

In the words of Benjamin Franklin: "When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."

He hit the nail on the head hundreds of years in advance. We've reached the tipping point where 50% of the people pay no income taxes, and a significant number of people live on the government handout. What incentive is there for those people not to keep voting idiots into office to keep the handouts flowing?

B. Franklin rep ++

 

[EagleKeeper]

Tough love will have to be tried.

those that can not stomach seeing tough love applied can step forward with open doors and wallets.

 

[PokerGuy]

Tough love will have to be tried.

Tough love can only be tried when there is someone able to do it. Politicians who are beholden to the vote of the constituents are going to be very hard pressed to apply tough love to those constituents if it results in them getting booted out of office and replaced with someone else who will continue the handouts.

 

[fskimospy]

In the words of Benjamin Franklin: "When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."

He hit the nail on the head hundreds of years in advance. We've reached the tipping point where 50% of the people pay no income taxes, and a significant number of people live on the government handout. What incentive is there for those people not to keep voting idiots into office to keep the handouts flowing?

B. Franklin rep ++

There is no evidence that Ben Franklin ever said such a thing.

 

[PokerGuy]

There is no evidence that Ben Franklin ever said such a thing.

It's widely attributed to him, but I haven't seen any real evidence that it really was his statement.

Regardless of who said it, they hit the nail on the head, we're seeing it happen.

 

[EagleKeeper]

There is no evidence that Ben Franklin ever said such a thing.

Many places have it attributed as a quote of his.

I however, can not find a site that details when/where the statement was written/heard

 

[nehalem256]

It is called values.

Unfortunately liberals have spent the last half-century eradicating values and destroying families by replacing the father with the government. Straight out of the communist manifesto.

 

[fskimospy]

Many places have it attributed as a quote of his.

I however, can not find a site that details when/where the statement was written/heard

Yes, it's a widely misattributed quote. (or at least a quote without any basis for attribution)

As best as I can tell it popped up somewhere in the 1980's and spread from there. It's not contained in anything he ever wrote or any transcript of his statements.

 

[QuantumPion]

It's not impossible by any means. When republicans passed welfare reform in 1994, the number of blacks on welfare and unemployment reduced by something like 50% in 3 years IIRC.

 

[PokerGuy]

It is called values.

Unfortunately liberals have spent the last half-century eradicating values and destroying families by replacing the father with the government.

I agree completely regarding the destruction of values by libs, but it probably goes even deeper than that. Repubs in office have done no better in terms of promising everything for free to their constituents. "cut taxes!.... but keep spending" is not much better than "raise taxes and spend ever more!".

 

[nehalem256]

I agree completely regarding the destruction of values by libs, but it probably goes even deeper than that. Repubs in office have done no better in terms of promising everything for free to their constituents. "cut taxes!.... but keep spending" is not much better than "raise taxes and spend ever more!".

Republicans are no paragon of values either.

See Newt Gingrich, he who cheated on his first 2 wives and asked one of them for an open marriage. And he was the "values" candidate

EDIT: Perhaps I should say that if one of your serious Presidental candidates asks for an open marriage then your party is not conservative.

 

[Lithium381]

just tax the rich!!!!!

 

[PokerGuy]

Republicans are no paragon of values either.

See Newt Gingrich, he who cheated on his first 2 wives and asked one of them for an open marriage. And he was the "values" candidate

You're right, they are not. I guess the difference is really between those who pretend to hold dear the right values but then live their own life differently, versus those who actively seek to destroy the values. No great choice, but one is worse than the other.

 

[Lithium381]

It's not impossible by any means. When republicans passed welfare reform in 1994, the number of blacks on welfare and unemployment reduced by something like 50% in 3 years IIRC.

first person to talk about race . . .. are you by chance a republican? probably because republicans are racist!

 

[FerrelGeek]

There is no evidence that Ben Franklin ever said such a thing.

Correct. This quote has also been attributed to others:

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Alexander_Fraser_Tytler
http://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/465.Alexis_de_Tocqueville

Irrespective of the source, I do tend to agree with it. Why do people hate congress but love their congressperson? Said congressperson brings home enough .gov goodies to the district.

 

[brandonb]

first person to talk about race . . .. are you by chance a republican? probably because republicans are racist!

Yep... Because out of the two groups, who uses race to their advantage time and time again?

(opps! It is actually the libs!)

 

[sandorski]

1) Regulate the Industry(specifically Finance) whose actions can lead to the failure of the Economy
2) Improve Economic conditions. At this time, a large Government Works program can improve Employment, get much needed Infrastructure built, and all this done at bargain rates that simply can not be matched during good Economic times.

 

[nehalem256]

1) Regulate the Industry(specifically Finance) whose actions can lead to the failure of the Economy
2) Improve Economic conditions. At this time, a large Government Works program can improve Employment, get much needed Infrastructure built, and all this done at bargain rates that simply can not be matched during good Economic times.

1.) Yes, finance has proved repeatedly throughout history that it cannot self regulate. I feel this is because finance can very easily become decoupled from reality, whereas say building cars has inherent checks in balances in that to build more cars you have to erect a factory, train workers, buy more steel, etc. Whereas you can create more derivatives with almost to effort.

 

[FerrelGeek]

1) Regulate the Industry(specifically Finance) whose actions can lead to the failure of the Economy
2) Improve Economic conditions. At this time, a large Government Works program can improve Employment, get much needed Infrastructure built, and all this done at bargain rates that simply can not be matched during good Economic times.

Point 1 is fine. As to point 2, I don't see how the work will get done cheaper as the work will need to be paid for with union wages. We're also crippled by an ever-growing national debt that won't be erased by simply 'taxing the rich'. Furthermore, I have no faith in the .gov executing this as the first 'stimulus' bill was a rousing failure.

 

[Steeplerot]

As we stand with the poor economy, unstable job market and rising inflation, more people are turning to the government to support themselves and their families. I 1000% think there should be temporary assistance programs to help people, however we have gone far beyond that.

I am not blaming the individual, the government or any group. Its society that has made it ok for this to happen. Its no longer seen as a bad thing to live on welfare for years or decades at a time. Apparently now Disability is another option for people that don't want to work. Of course not everyone on Disability has this problem (my own mom is on it) but there are plenty of people on it who very well COULD work.

I believe a large number of the people in this situation got there through a form of evolution. Lets say their mom was a single mom and had to turn to the state for food stamps. After a while, the state will offer mom free education, rent and even a car to help. That's not a bad thing. But the child grows up seeing the government as their provider, a father figure if you will. When the child grows up and hits a rough patch, they will turn to daddy for some help. That's completely normal. But this continues the vicious cycle and it goes on and on.

Education has been tried. But there are plenty of college graduates out there getting food stamps and collecting checks. We obviously can't just cut them off and let them starve. But there is no way us working folks can continue to support all the non-working folks. So what do we do?

I have no answer but I'd really like to hear anyone else's answers.

In the 21st century the anglo view of the protestant "work ethic" itself is outdated. We have so much automation and technology.

Why keep everyone wage slaves? Are we not moving beyond the "human beasts of burden" phase?

This old way of victorian thinking has always been hypocritical, and the foundation of white superiority and racism trips.

We already have people pointing out that certain races will not work hard enough for the elites. Go figure.


Conservatives really have literally no vision sometimes. Nor adaptability.

One day people will look at this shit and think how barbaric/backward we were still.

 

[nehalem256]

In the 21st century the anglo view of the protestant "work ethic" itself is outdated. We have so much automation and technology.

Why keep everyone wage slaves? Are we not moving beyond the "human beasts of burden" phase?

So only some people should be forced to be wage "slaves" while others get to sit around be taken care of?

Sounds to me like you want to replace wage "slavery" with actual slavery.

 

[yllus]

This is a rather unpopular argument with Americans, but it rather seems that you currently need more, better government - not less. Less is what got you here. Alternatively if you took the amount you spend on the DEA and drug war in general and instead used it on regulatory bodies imagine the difference you'd make.

 

[Steeplerot]

So only some people should be forced to be wage "slaves" while others get to sit around be taken care of?

Sounds to me like you want to replace wage "slavery" with actual slavery.

No, I am saying this idea that everyone should outdo each other in the race to the bottom to fullfill some victorian era idea of a protestant work ethic (founded in racial superiority) is as silly as refusing to move beyond telegraph technology from centuries past.

Why not automate more and let those who are inspired to better themselves work?

This is how you foster a true work ethic in people, not the false liberty of wage slavery or starvation.

Like I said, this is victorian era barbarism, and a economic threat that hangs over our heads.

Real life does not work like this. Nor does it promote family values having parents gone or endlessly twisting the cog of capitalism to enrich a few the whole while needlessly turning humans into literal beasts of burden their whole productive adult lives.

We can do far better.

It may sound odd, but then full-on slavery made perfect economic sense in the 1850s to many also.

Low and behold the elites who told us that scam for cheap labor were wrong then too in the long run.

 

[nehalem256]

Why not automate more and let those who are inspired to better themselves work?

So you live in a delusional world where people work for fun.