How do indigent people afford ER bills? Thousands of dollars a visit.

[Anonemous]

they don't pay.

pretty simple.

They also sue if you don't treat them.

 

[zinfamous]

They also sue if you don't treat them.

I don't doubt it...but how does a homeless person sue?

Well, I don't mean simply homeless--but mentally unstable, truly destitute individual.

 

[marvdmartian]

1. Poor people go to ER
2. Hospital presents them with bill that they know will never get paid
3. Hospital raises costs for everyone else, to cover their losses
4. Those of us with insurance pay through the nose

The best part of the whole Obamacare plan? No matter how much they promised that we wouldn't pay for it, that it would pay for itself........you just KNOW that those of us that already had insurance would end up paying for it.

 

[TheNinja]

If you don't work and don't have an income, things are free for you in America. Free food and shelter, and free healthcare. This is why everyone wants to come here

Yup. If you work and do have an income, you get to pay for things like food, shelter, and healthcare for other people. This is why people in America don't like to work.

 

[CVSiN]

They'll have their lawyers garnish your wages for the rest of your life.

nope not true.. and they cannot even report to credit either...
and by law they cannot turn you away either.

they can send nastygrams and send your account to collections but cant do anything else.

and even if you don't pay they have to take you as a patient again..

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Get on welfare and never worry about problems like food and healthcare again.

 

[Lithium381]

Yup. If you work and do have an income, you get to pay for things like food, shelter, and healthcare for other people. This is why people in America don't like to work.

yay communism!!

 

[nanette1985]

nope not true.. and they cannot even report to credit either...
and by law they cannot turn you away either.

they can send nastygrams and send your account to collections but cant do anything else.

and even if you don't pay they have to take you as a patient again..

Where do you live? In my state the bold part is not true.

 

[spidey07]

Where do you live? In my state the bold part is not true.

Yep. You sign forms that say they have the right to bill you and collect. Providing false information is also fraud and a serious crime (then again that doesn't stop the leeches who have nothing to lose from commiting it).

 

[Mark R]

It sounds like a large proportion of the cost of medical care in the states must be contained in the admin costs.

A huge amount is spent on admin. You think the NHS has too many managers and back-office staff? You've seen nothing compared to what happens in the US.

A lot of it though is hospitals just billing 'funny money' so that those who can pay subsidise those who don't.

You don't really think an MRI of the brain costs $5000? The NHS pays £200.

 

[JohnnyGage]

Usually, there is some kind of coverage for it. Taxpayers and Medicare and whatever version your state has for medicare. Social workers usually help in this regard.

 

[Demo24]

This is why so many hospitals in California around to the south are having money troubles and are on the verge of closing down. I know there are two hospitals in atlanta that have been bailed out a couple times cause they are forced to treat so many people who do not have insurance(or green cards...). At some point there will be no money to bail them out. I don't remember the figure, but the amount of money the hospitals have to eat by birthing children of people who cannot afford children was amazing to me. But ah well, it gets them more welfare.

And who is going to want to go through college and medical school to become a doctor who basically works for nothing?

I think the main one was Grady memorial hospital, it's in a area and the hospital looks it so hardly surprising. This is why the super speed ticker came into effect here in GA to help pay for the hospitals (get it if going over 80mph).

 

[Meghan54]

1. Poor people go to ER
2. Hospital presents them with bill that they know will never get paid
3. Hospital raises costs for everyone else, to cover their losses
4. Those of us with insurance pay through the nose

The best part of the whole Obamacare plan? No matter how much they promised that we wouldn't pay for it, that it would pay for itself........you just KNOW that those of us that already had insurance would end up paying for it.

WTF are you talking about with the snide Obamacare comment?


The uninsured problem using ER's as their primary treatment center is a problem that has existed for many decades.....I remember it existing back in the 1970's and I'm sure the problem easily stretched further back than that.

But we've got the health care system we wanted.....the insured pay for those who cannot either obtain insurance because of lack of funds (being poor) or prior existing health conditions.

The answer is either get everyone insured so the cost per person drops or institute a national health insurance program. Either solution would alleviate a lot of what's wrong with our system.

And before you come back screaming about you won't pay via taxes the health care costs.....remember, if health care became open to all without the insurance companies being involved, sure taxes would go up, but your health ins. premiums you pay would disappear along with what your employer pays for the ins., also

And the gov't can and does administer health care pretty well already in many cases....the VA is one example----unfortunately they're chronically underfunded and their funds get cut every year, amazing what they do accomplish with as little funding as they get.....and the Medicare program---not to be confused with Medicaid----has worked quite well for the elderly for a long time.

As long as we continue to stick our heads in the sand and refuse to fix the problem at its root, we'll continue to be the country that outspends every other country on earth in health care yet gets so little to show from it. (In almost every measure of health care outcomes, such as infant mortality, etc., the U.S. ranks down with a lot of 2nd and 3rd world countries while we spend 16% of our GDP on health care......the next highest spending country spends around 10% of their GDP on health care.)

So, we spend the most and have some of the worst results for a 1st world, industrialized country. Shame that we require better health care for our cows than we give to a large portion of our citizens.

 

[Dulanic]

When my friend was in town and his gf had to go to the er they didn't even bill her. She didn't have insurance at the time and they just treated her and sent her on her way.

Is it right that the rest of us pay for her visit? Nope but we do becaue our healthcare system fucking blows and charges insane prices to make up for he uninsured and non payers.

 

[Icepick]

If you don't work and don't have an income, things are free for you in America. Free food and shelter, and free healthcare. This is why everyone wants to come here

Bullshit.

 

[mattpegher]

<----- Board Certified Emergency Medicine/Internal Medicine Physician for 20 years.

1. The vast majority of uninsured that utilize the ER, never intend to pay the bill. They actually cost the system more because of the repeated man-hours required to bill them. Few actually have anything worth sending them to collections for.
2. Your cost for emergency care increases because, you pay for the care of 1-2 other people everytime you use the ER.
3. Admin cost are higher for ER, because of the many people required just to get paid.
4. We utilize the same physicians in our urgent care for 1/5 the price due to the fact that we expect payment for every visit (cash pay or participating insurance, no free care, no medicaid)
5. Indigent are 5x more likely to sue, using lawyer on contigency.
6. Because the ER is the only place they can recieve free care, they overwhelm the system forcing patients to wait, increasing the likely-hood that legitimate patients will suffer short term and possibly longterm.
7. No system that only controls funding without taking the responsibility for the actual costs will work.
8. The VA system works by minimizing costs, first they hire the worst doctors and pay the least. Second they limit and delay care. They have no emergency care system that is in place nationwide. They routinely change patients medicines to minimize costs.
9. At this rate, I anticipate that we will see a two teir system in emergency care. As Urgent cares get more and more sophisticated. They will be the place to go to get fast and efficent care where you only have to pay for your own care, and you dont have to wait for hours due to indigents clogging up the system.

 

[LookBehindYou]

<----- Board Certified Emergency Medicine/Internal Medicine Physician for 20 years.

1. The vast majority of uninsured that utilize the ER, never intend to pay the bill. They actually cost the system more because of the repeated man-hours required to bill them. Few actually have anything worth sending them to collections for.
2. Your cost for emergency care increases because, you pay for the care of 1-2 other people everytime you use the ER.
3. Admin cost are higher for ER, because of the many people required just to get paid.
4. We utilize the same physicians in our urgent care for 1/5 the price due to the fact that we expect payment for every visit (cash pay or participating insurance, no free care, no medicaid)
5. Indigent are 5x more likely to sue, using lawyer on contigency.
6. Because the ER is the only place they can recieve free care, they overwhelm the system forcing patients to wait, increasing the likely-hood that legitimate patients will suffer short term and possibly longterm.
7. No system that only controls funding without taking the responsibility for the actual costs will work.
8. The VA system works by minimizing costs, first they hire the worst doctors and pay the least. Second they limit and delay care. They have no emergency care system that is in place nationwide. They routinely change patients medicines to minimize costs.
9. At this rate, I anticipate that we will see a two teir system in emergency care. As Urgent cares get more and more sophisticated. They will be the place to go to get fast and efficent care where you only have to pay for your own care, and you dont have to wait for hours due to indigents clogging up the system.

Serious question. Why is it that ERs even exist? Wouldnt it be better for both the physicians/companies and the paying/insured patients if there were just Urgent Care places everywhere that were staggered hours or open 24 hrs?

Not so serious addition. This would get rid of all the people abusing the system, they wouldn't be get treated causing the increased cost problem now, and without even being treated, may die off. Win win

 

[WelshBloke]

A huge amount is spent on admin. You think the NHS has too many managers and back-office staff? You've seen nothing compared to what happens in the US.

A lot of it though is hospitals just billing 'funny money' so that those who can pay subsidise those who don't.

You don't really think an MRI of the brain costs $5000? The NHS pays £200.

A while back they got all strict about us reporting or finding out if our patients were UK residents so they could chase up on payments for the ones who weren't.

It didnt last long as it was way too much work for everyone involved.

 

[WelshBloke]

Serious question. Why is it that ERs even exist? Wouldnt it be better for both the physicians/companies and the paying/insured patients if there were just Urgent Care places everywhere that were staggered hours or open 24 hrs?

Not so serious addition. This would get rid of all the people abusing the system, they wouldn't be get treated causing the increased cost problem now, and without even being treated, may die off. Win win

ER is there to stabilise you before you get taken for treatment in the appropriate hospital dept. If you move the ER away for the hospital then people are going to tie up the ER resources for way too long.

 

[LookBehindYou]

ER is there to stabilise you before you get taken for treatment in the appropriate hospital dept. If you move the ER away for the hospital then people are going to tie up the ER resources for way too long.

Shit, forgot about the rest of the hospital. How bout instead of an ER attached to the hospital, it's an Urgent Care attached to the hospital. Pay for the care, and off you go.

No pay, go find a hospital with an ER not an Urgent Care

 

[Inspector Jihad]

Shit, forgot about the rest of the hospital. How bout instead of an ER attached to the hospital, it's an Urgent Care attached to the hospital. Pay for the care, and off you go.

No pay, go find a hospital with an ER not an Urgent Care

you should think this through a little more.

 

[LookBehindYou]

you should think this through a little more.

But then I wouldn't have anything to post.

 

[1sikbITCH]

If you are homeless, some hospitals here have compassionate care programs where they write off your bill and claim it as a loss on their taxes.

On the other hand if they determine that you do have assets, they try to collect just like anything else and then eventually they get a judgement to garnish your wages.

 

[NeoV]

Meg - one of the best posts of the year, should be required reading for everyone who thinks that 'universal' health care is evil

 

[Red Squirrel]

I've always wondered this myself. That's a shit ton of money, and if you are sick, maybe you have to take time off work, so then your really having trouble paying it. (often you don't get your works comp months or years later) America's health care system is very cruel. Taxes should cover all that, you pay them for a reason, for government services. Sure you can just "not pay it" but how many strikes till they throw you out? Not to mention the collection companies will be all over your ass, your credit goes to crap etc. No thanks, I'll stay in Canada.