How do hybrid SSD/Spindle drives work?

[techs]

I was wondering how the data is apportioned between the flash and the platter. For example, does the drive controller put the Windows and Program Files directories on the SSD?
Anyone have a link that explains this?
Thanks

 

[Blain]

This might help... "Adaptive Memory Technology"

 

[Zap]

As I understand it, the SSD part is just a cache. It's probably a lot more complex than this, but thinking about it this way makes sense and is easy to wrap the mind around. Think of your typical performance spindle drive with 16MB, 32MB and now even 64MB cache. More cache = better, right? Well, how about a whopping 4GB cache! Not only that, but the cache is persistent, meaning it doesn't flush when you turn your computer off.

 

[corkyg]

Having 3 hybrid drives, I can attest that the 4 is a little different that a pure cache. What it does is load program files you use the most into that region. That makes them more responsive than if they were only on the platter part of the drive. The hybrid drive learns as you use it. It responds to your repetative habits.

 

[techs]

Having 3 hybrid drives, I can attest that the 4 is a little different that a pure cache. What it does is load program files you use the most into that region. That makes them more responsive than if they were only on the platter part of the drive. The hybrid drive learns as you use it. It responds to your repetative habits.

Oh. I thought it was that there was a small SSD plus a spindle drive combined into one that would allow a user to see only one drive lettter and the drive would take care of apportioning the data so that basically the OS and programs would reside on the SSD portion and data on the spindle.

 

[Hacp]

Hybrid drives will not work(be effective) unless they change the implementation. Hybrid drives will need to be able to communicate with the OS in the future to be effective. The portion that spindle drives suck at(small file read and writes) is what needs to be written and stored in the flash part. However, that can not happen if the "controller" doesn't have any knowledge of the files and file system. Microsoft needs to get off its ass and coordinate something with the hardware manufacturers to make windows a more enjoyable experience.

 

[Rubycon]

Ripoff IMO.
I tried a Momentus XT (compared to Intel X25E) in a notebook and the really annoying long load time was there. Not much difference between the Momentus 7200.4 that the computer shipped with. It was actually a bit noisier.

 

[GundamF91]

These "hybrid tech" never work as well as a full implementation. I would definitely not buy into this interim solution. You either go big or go home, and the SSD is where the speed is at for faster response time. For bigger storage, HDD is still the king and it also has its place for high capacity storage, but SSD is the future, at least for application needs. Therefore there really is no room for hybrids. That Momentus is just living on borrowed time until SSD get cheap enough to drive it off the market.

 

[Zap]

Ripoff IMO.
I tried a Momentus XT (compared to Intel X25E) in a notebook and the really annoying long load time was there. Not much difference between the Momentus 7200.4 that the computer shipped with. It was actually a bit noisier.

Two thoughts. First, did you run the hybrid long enough? It has to go through a learning process, so initially it will perform exactly like a normal 7200RPM notebook drive. It has to learn which files get accessed more.

Second thing is that you're comparing it to an Intel X25-E? Seriously? A high end SLC drive?

 

[techs]

Oh. I thought it was that there was a small SSD plus a spindle drive combined into one that would allow a user to see only one drive lettter and the drive would take care of apportioning the data so that basically the OS and programs would reside on the SSD portion and data on the spindle.

Hybrid drives will not work(be effective) unless they change the implementation. Hybrid drives will need to be able to communicate with the OS in the future to be effective. The portion that spindle drives suck at(small file read and writes) is what needs to be written and stored in the flash part. However, that can not happen if the "controller" doesn't have any knowledge of the files and file system. Microsoft needs to get off its ass and coordinate something with the hardware manufacturers to make windows a more enjoyable experience.

Ah, so what I thought they did, is what you think they should do. Makes sense. It just seemed logical that what you and I agree should be the implementation would be the best union of the two technologies.

 

[wpcoe]

Two thoughts. First, did you run the hybrid long enough? It has to go through a learning process, so initially it will perform exactly like a normal 7200RPM notebook drive. It has to learn which files get accessed more.

Agreed. :thumbsup:

After I replaced the HDD in my new (at the time ... in Sept 2010) notebook with a Momentus XT, the first boot (Win7 Pro) took the same time. However, the next 3 or 4 boots, the boot-up time got incrementally faster and has pretty much stayed there. A hybrid drive has a learning curve (its own, not for the user.)

To me, it's worth it for two reasons: (1) faster boot and (2) more storage -- I got a 500GB drive -- for only US$100. I carry a lot of files with me on my notebook and even a 128GB SSD would be a tight fit. Larger SSD's are simply too expensive. So, for my use, the Momentus XT was a good compromise.

The Momentus XT is a 7200 rpm drive which in itself can be an upgrade for a typical notebook drive which can be a 5400 (or 4200) rpm drive.

My usage of the notebook may be atypical. Boot time is important as I'm frequently starting and closing down the computer for short times with relatively long times between usage. With the hybrid, boot time is shorter with a cold start than using hybernate. Using sleep/suspend often drains the battery between uses.

For my desktop computer, I did not consider a hybrid drive. I use a smallish 64GB SSD for boot Win7 drive, with large spindle drives for data storage. But for a notebook the Momentus XT seems to be a good fit.

 

[dbcooper1]

They work fine for what they are; happy with the two I have. I believe they cache reads only and don't do anything for writes. Performance is definitely better for many things but I didn't see any improvement in battery run time as some have reported. Boot times are noticeably quicker after the first few starts.

 

[biostud]

isn't it a little like an intelligent RAID1, where the 4Gb of data most used get stored on both the SSD and the HDD?

 

[Emulex]

its easier to make a tight fit than deal with laggy hard drives

 

[kmmatney]

I just bought the 500GB Momentus XT for $99 shipped. I currently have an 80GB Intel G1 SSD, but needed more space, as I run a lot of virtual machines on my laptop. I think there is a market for this type of drive. This is a work laptop, and I do a lot of the same things (except when running VMs).

 

[Minerva]

I just bought the 500GB Momentus XT for $99 shipped. I currently have an 80GB Intel G1 SSD, but needed more space, as I run a lot of virtual machines on my laptop. I think there is a market for this type of drive. This is a work laptop, and I do a lot of the same things (except when running VMs).

Where from?
That's pretty decent.
I was in worst buy and they wanted $149.
(more like fail buy!)

 

[Rubycon]

Two thoughts. First, did you run the hybrid long enough? It has to go through a learning process, so initially it will perform exactly like a normal 7200RPM notebook drive. It has to learn which files get accessed more.

Second thing is that you're comparing it to an Intel X25-E? Seriously? A high end SLC drive?

I ran it long enough to know it wasn't for me. If that wasn't long enough then I know I made the right decision. All I had was a tiny SLC drive to compare it to hence needing more space. I'll just replace it with one of the new 640GB Intel drives and be done with it. I cannot stand a laggy computer (zero tolerance PERIOD!) and hybrid stuff is a gimmick IMO. Perhaps if you're a monotonous user that does the same thing day in and day out this may work. I could not care less about reduced boot times. Most people that work hard don't.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

The xt costs $120 usually. I got a new OCZ vertex 120gb SSD for $160. Really a no brainer IMO. Maybe if the xt was $80-90 it would be good but not at it's current price.

 

[Zap]

I ran it long enough to know it wasn't for me. If that wasn't long enough then I know I made the right decision. All I had was a tiny SLC drive to compare it to hence needing more space. I'll just replace it with one of the new 640GB Intel drives and be done with it. I cannot stand a laggy computer (zero tolerance PERIOD!) and hybrid stuff is a gimmick IMO. Perhaps if you're a monotonous user that does the same thing day in and day out this may work. I could not care less about reduced boot times. Most people that work hard don't.

My conclusion is that you are too hardcore for the 4GB SSD part of the hybrid drive.

 

[Rubycon]

My conclusion is that you are too hardcore for the 4GB SSD part of the hybrid drive.

It's just not enough.
It's like that boy that put a leaf blower on his car thinking it would work like a super charger. :biggrin: