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How do casinos get an advantage from "war"?

M

MrDingleDangle

Lifer
i noticed that they have "war" tables in vegas now...my question is, if its played normally it is a 50/50 probability on who will win...knowing that vegas hates 50/50 chances, how do they get the probability in their favor?
 
because when you go to "war," you have to double down just to keep in. otherwise, they get your money, and if you win, they only match your original bet, not what you currently have on the table. there's the advantage
 
Originally posted by: FFMCobalt
It's never 50/50. War may seem like that to you in your head, but it's just like playing the slot machines:

THE CASINOS CHEAT 😛
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yep.

and besides, even if it is 50/50, they're still getting you INTO the casino, where you're likely to gamble at other games, or go to shows, or do something else. in the end you WILL walk out of there less rich than before.
 
they take odds. like horse racing. It's not 50/50. let's say there is a 25% chance Iraq wins. Let's say casino will pay you 3 times what you bet. That means you are paying $1 for a 1/4th chance to win $3. So basically you are giving them $1 for a $0.75 value, so statistically they have an edge.
 
Or if there is 75% chance that the US wins. Then casino will only pay $1.25 if US wins. So you are paying $1 for a 0.75 chance to win 1.25. 0.75*1.25=0.93, so casino has a 7 cent edge over you.
 
Originally posted by: dolph
because when you go to "war," you have to double down just to keep in. otherwise, they get your money, and if you win, they only match your original bet, not what you currently have on the table. there's the advantage
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Originally posted by: neovan
Originally posted by: dolph
because when you go to "war," you have to double down just to keep in. otherwise, they get your money, and if you win, they only match your original bet, not what you currently have on the table. there's the advantage
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hmm makes sense...still seems that it would be a good game to play compared to others oddswise
 
Originally posted by: MrDingleDangle
Originally posted by: neovan
Originally posted by: dolph
because when you go to "war," you have to double down just to keep in. otherwise, they get your money, and if you win, they only match your original bet, not what you currently have on the table. there's the advantage
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

hmm makes sense...still seems that it would be a good game to play compared to others oddswise
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play poker, your not playing against the house.
 
Originally posted by: Ameesh
Originally posted by: MrDingleDangle
Originally posted by: neovan
Originally posted by: dolph
because when you go to "war," you have to double down just to keep in. otherwise, they get your money, and if you win, they only match your original bet, not what you currently have on the table. there's the advantage
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

hmm makes sense...still seems that it would be a good game to play compared to others oddswise
Click to expand...

play poker, your not playing against the house.
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Yet, the house still wins...
 
I would say that no one has told the total truth behind it yet. Here's the deal. In games like War or Poker where the house has no advantage (like in War) or where you are playing other people and not the house (like Poker) the house retains some of the winnings. For example if you play $1 per hand of war and win 5 out of 10 hands you get around $4.50 in winnings. It's nice if you win 6 out of 10 because you will get something like $5.50 and you just made 50 cents. It comes down to if you bet $1 per hand you only win like $.90 or $.95 something like that. And Poker has all different rules such as "buy in" where you pay to get in a table, or where they take a percentage of the winnings at a table.
 
Originally posted by: Staley8
I would say that no one has told the total truth behind it yet. Here's the deal. In games like War or Poker where the house has no advantage (like in War) or where you are playing other people and not the house (like Poker) the house retains some of the winnings. For example if you play $1 per hand of war and win 5 out of 10 hands you get around $4.50 in winnings. It's nice if you win 6 out of 10 because you will get something like $5.50 and you just made 50 cents. It comes down to if you bet $1 per hand you only win like $.90 or $.95 something like that. And Poker has all different rules such as "buy in" where you pay to get in a table, or where they take a percentage of the winnings at a table.
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uh dude, "buy in" is the minimum amount of money you have to put on the table before they'll let you play the game. It doesn't mean you pay anyone to get in.
 
Originally posted by: cheapbidder01
Originally posted by: Staley8
I would say that no one has told the total truth behind it yet. Here's the deal. In games like War or Poker where the house has no advantage (like in War) or where you are playing other people and not the house (like Poker) the house retains some of the winnings. For example if you play $1 per hand of war and win 5 out of 10 hands you get around $4.50 in winnings. It's nice if you win 6 out of 10 because you will get something like $5.50 and you just made 50 cents. It comes down to if you bet $1 per hand you only win like $.90 or $.95 something like that. And Poker has all different rules such as "buy in" where you pay to get in a table, or where they take a percentage of the winnings at a table.
Click to expand...

uh dude, "buy in" is the minimum amount of money you have to put on the table before they'll let you play the game. It doesn't mean you pay anyone to get in.
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fine, that is why I put "buy in" in quotes, I wasn't sure of the correct term for paying to get on a table. Regardless the rest of my post is good 🙂
 
Originally posted by: SuperTool
they take odds. like horse racing. It's not 50/50. let's say there is a 25% chance Iraq wins. Let's say casino will pay you 3 times what you bet. That means you are paying $1 for a 1/4th chance to win $3. So basically you are giving them $1 for a $0.75 value, so statistically they have an edge.
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Hahaha, they're talking about cards. I can't call you a tool though. 🙂
 
Originally posted by: MrDingleDangle
i noticed that they have "war" tables in vegas now...my question is, if its played normally it is a 50/50 probability on who will win...knowing that vegas hates 50/50 chances, how do they get the probability in their favor?
Click to expand...

Lets assume for the moment that the odds are 50/50, and the casino doesn't cheat:

Think of it from a psycological standpoint. Say you start winning. You say, "hey, this is great!" and keep playing. Inevitably, you will have a losing streak, at which point, you have a strong desire to get back what you lost, so you keep going. Eventually, you gains turn into a loss. You could eventually start winning again, but you don't have the money to wait that long, so leave the tabhle, while the casino gets your money. The casino, on the other hand, can front all the money in the world until you lose, so they only have to bide their time.

That's the real reason the house always wins.
 
Originally posted by: ClueLis
Originally posted by: MrDingleDangle
i noticed that they have "war" tables in vegas now...my question is, if its played normally it is a 50/50 probability on who will win...knowing that vegas hates 50/50 chances, how do they get the probability in their favor?
Click to expand...

Lets assume for the moment that the odds are 50/50, and the casino doesn't cheat:

Think of it from a psycological standpoint. Say you start winning. You say, "hey, this is great!" and keep playing. Inevitably, you will have a losing streak, at which point, you have a strong desire to get back what you lost, so you keep going. Eventually, you gains turn into a loss. You could eventually start winning again, but you don't have the money to wait that long, so leave the tabhle, while the casino gets your money. The casino, on the other hand, can front all the money in the world until you lose, so they only have to bide their time.

That's the real reason the house always wins.
Click to expand...

haha...casinos will never do a game that is 50/50...


 
Dolph got it right... The game actually is 50/50, unless you have a tie, and it was already explained what happens. Even with the small percentage of ties, the expected return of the game is much less than craps or 21 played with proper strategy.
 
no limit blackjack is the only game you can reliably come out ahead. which is why blackjack always has a limit.
 
Originally posted by: Staley8
Originally posted by: cheapbidder01
Originally posted by: Staley8
I would say that no one has told the total truth behind it yet. Here's the deal. In games like War or Poker where the house has no advantage (like in War) or where you are playing other people and not the house (like Poker) the house retains some of the winnings. For example if you play $1 per hand of war and win 5 out of 10 hands you get around $4.50 in winnings. It's nice if you win 6 out of 10 because you will get something like $5.50 and you just made 50 cents. It comes down to if you bet $1 per hand you only win like $.90 or $.95 something like that. And Poker has all different rules such as "buy in" where you pay to get in a table, or where they take a percentage of the winnings at a table.
Click to expand...

uh dude, "buy in" is the minimum amount of money you have to put on the table before they'll let you play the game. It doesn't mean you pay anyone to get in.
Click to expand...

fine, that is why I put "buy in" in quotes, I wasn't sure of the correct term for paying to get on a table. Regardless the rest of my post is good 🙂
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no it's not. i don't know where you play war, but a winning hand from War always pays 1:1, unless it's a tie.

casino's advantage is when there's a tie. i've seen Indian casinos where you can either surrender half of your bet, or ante up another bet same amount as original to stay in it. this is where you go to "War" with the casino. if you win the subsequent hand, then the casino pays out 1:2 (same amount as your original bet, but you had to double your bet to win the original amount). but using the same Indian casino example, if you end up in another tie, the casino will pay out double the normal amount they pay (in this case it's 1:1).

so you could look at it a couple of different ways. your odds are 50:50, except when you surrender your tie hand, then your odds are slightly below 50:50. but if you always go to "war" with casinos, then you will have slightly better than 50:50 odds that you will win the hand.
however, you have to risk double the amount to win your original hand, when you go to "war". so even if you slightly more than 50% of your hands after going to "war", the casino will still come out ahead in terms of monies taken.



 
Originally posted by: ClueLis
Originally posted by: MrDingleDangle
i noticed that they have "war" tables in vegas now...my question is, if its played normally it is a 50/50 probability on who will win...knowing that vegas hates 50/50 chances, how do they get the probability in their favor?
Click to expand...

Lets assume for the moment that the odds are 50/50, and the casino doesn't cheat:

Think of it from a psycological standpoint. Say you start winning. You say, "hey, this is great!" and keep playing. Inevitably, you will have a losing streak, at which point, you have a strong desire to get back what you lost, so you keep going. Eventually, you gains turn into a loss. You could eventually start winning again, but you don't have the money to wait that long, so leave the tabhle, while the casino gets your money. The casino, on the other hand, can front all the money in the world until you lose, so they only have to bide their time.

That's the real reason the house always wins.
Click to expand...

No the casino always wins because they know the exact expected return for every game on their floor to the 3rd or 4th decimal place and most games have an expected return of anywhere from 80% to 99.95% The casino balances the games on the floor so that on any given day they will average and 8% return. In other words, for every dollar bet in the casino they keep 8 cents on average.

It is not impossible to walk out of a casino with winnings. Games are designed so that people can win and come out ahead on a given day. It's just that other people lose.

For example how many possible games can a person play on a weekend trip to Vegas? Each game counts as a turn on a slot machine or a hand in poker. Lets go high and say 1000. 1000 games is a lot of gambling for a weekend. In those thousand games you have a 90% chance of winning anywhere from 35%-155% of your winnings (those numbers change on a game to game basis) To get those number down to a +or- od 1% you would have to play 100,000 games. That is a lifetime of gambling.

This is why it is so easy to go to Vegas and win. It takes a lifetime of gambling to start to converge to the house average because one person simply can't gamble that much. The casino can get away with it because it is Very easy for a crowd of people to play that many games in a weekend. This is the whole luck factor and why some people can walk away ahead and some lose their shorts.
 
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