How do British text/history books treat the American Revolution?

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iamwiz82

Lifer
Jan 10, 2001
30,772
13
81
Originally posted by: DVK916
Not everywhere in the U.S is one sided. In my H.S and college we use Howards Zinn book which is very critical of the U.S, hell my H.S teacher even did this thing on the evils of american history. All of the evil things the U.S did, like massacare over 500,000 women and children in the filipines. How we nuked Japan for no good reason. Stuff you don't get in alot of other class rooms.

Yeah, that sounds like a unbiased book :roll:

 

torpid

Lifer
Sep 14, 2003
11,631
11
76
Do they still teach the myth of columbus wanting to prove that the world is round in US schools? They did when I attended... really annoying to find out how much outright falsehoods they taught me in school when I got older.

I also recall glossing over the genocide against native americans, massive exaggeration of the role of the US in WWI, and virtually zero coverage of vietnam (none of watergate). WWII was done somewhat well, in that I was taught that Russia was largely responsible for allied victory (as opposed to what some people are saying they learned in the way of D-Day winning WWII type nonsense), and lots of info about stalin.
 

DVK916

Banned
Dec 12, 2005
2,765
0
0
Originally posted by: iamwiz82
Originally posted by: DVK916
Not everywhere in the U.S is one sided. In my H.S and college we use Howards Zinn book which is very critical of the U.S, hell my H.S teacher even did this thing on the evils of american history. All of the evil things the U.S did, like massacare over 500,000 women and children in the filipines. How we nuked Japan for no good reason. Stuff you don't get in alot of other class rooms.

Yeah, that sounds like a unbiased book :roll:

Before the nuke Japan offered a conditional surrender. The U.S and Allies refused to accept a conditional surrender.
 

Atheus

Diamond Member
Jun 7, 2005
7,313
2
0
Originally posted by: DVK916
Most people in the U.S don't learn that Russia was preparing for a million+ troops to invade Japan.

Yep:

Britain, soldiers served - 11,115,000, dead/missing - 580,000

USA, soldiers served - 11,260,000, dead/missing - 318,274

Russia, soldiers served - 34,476,700, dead/missing - 8,668,400

So if anything the Russians won the war. That isn't well known on either side of the pond.
 

dirtylimey

Senior member
Nov 22, 2006
296
0
0
Originally posted by: MmmSkyscraper
Originally posted by: DVK916
Well the other person said it goes from ancient history, to WW1 then to WW2.

I think most of the UK regulars are a decade away from their school days.

a) we won't remember every single thing we covered
b) we all studied to different levels under differing syllabuses

Indeed.

Really Rome and WW2 received the most emphasis and were covered the most. Other topics got brief mentions or were studied for a day, maybe 2. Like I forgot to mention the crusades, bubonic plague etc..

I'm still fairly in the dark about 1812 and such. Kind of need to do some studying to get up to speed.
 

DVK916

Banned
Dec 12, 2005
2,765
0
0
We can thank russia for ending ww2, not our nukes. Their threat of invasion and slaughter that would ensue helped motivate japan the most.
 

Feldenak

Lifer
Jan 31, 2003
14,090
2
81
Originally posted by: DVK916
Not everywhere in the U.S is one sided. In my H.S and college we use Howards Zinn book which is very critical of the U.S, hell my H.S teacher even did this thing on the evils of american history. All of the evil things the U.S did, like massacare over 500,000 women and children in the filipines. How we nuked Japan for no good reason. Stuff you don't get in alot of other class rooms.

That's just plain stupid. You really need to reevaluate your Anti-American bent. You think you could get this many chins eating dog in the land of your ancestors?
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,920
46
91
Originally posted by: DVK916
Originally posted by: iamwiz82
Originally posted by: DVK916
Not everywhere in the U.S is one sided. In my H.S and college we use Howards Zinn book which is very critical of the U.S, hell my H.S teacher even did this thing on the evils of american history. All of the evil things the U.S did, like massacare over 500,000 women and children in the filipines. How we nuked Japan for no good reason. Stuff you don't get in alot of other class rooms.

Yeah, that sounds like a unbiased book :roll:

Before the nuke Japan offered a conditional surrender. The U.S and Allies refused to accept a conditional surrender.

Why should we have been willing to let them set the terms of their surrender?
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,590
16,581
146
Originally posted by: DVK916
Not everywhere in the U.S is one sided. In my H.S and college we use Howards Zinn book which is very critical of the U.S, hell my H.S teacher even did this thing on the evils of american history. All of the evil things the U.S did, like massacare over 500,000 women and children in the filipines. How we nuked Japan for no good reason. Stuff you don't get in alot of other class rooms.

You teacher had his/her head up their ass.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
Originally posted by: Atheus
Well that's reassuring. I mentioned it because I've talked to Americans about this before - ask them who provided the troops for D-day they'll say America, whereas really it was about 50-50.

I don't think that's because of what we were taught, but because of what we remember. D-Day is always pushed as the main day (i.e. start) for the American offensive of Europe in World War 2. So, in light of that, I could see why a typical American may just kind of think of D-Day as a "purely American offensive."

Originally posted by: Atheus
Of course they mention colonialism, but the USA was only one of many many colonies, each of which has since gained it's independence. Should they cover all of them in school? Or just the Americas?

The fact that America is the most powerful nation at this point... it may be worth a paragraph or two :p.

Originally posted by: DVK916
Well the other person said it goes from ancient history, to WW1 then to WW2.

When I was in High School, we went from Ancient History to US Cultures (1 and 2... essentially first half of the book and then the second half), European History (don't remember where we started from) and then US Government.
 

DVK916

Banned
Dec 12, 2005
2,765
0
0
Originally posted by: Feldenak
Originally posted by: DVK916
Not everywhere in the U.S is one sided. In my H.S and college we use Howards Zinn book which is very critical of the U.S, hell my H.S teacher even did this thing on the evils of american history. All of the evil things the U.S did, like massacare over 500,000 women and children in the filipines. How we nuked Japan for no good reason. Stuff you don't get in alot of other class rooms.

That's just plain stupid. You really need to reevaluate your Anti-American bent. You think you could get this many chins eating dog in the land of your ancestors?

Just telling you what we learned in my U.S history class in college and H.S
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,590
16,581
146
Originally posted by: DVK916
Originally posted by: iamwiz82
Originally posted by: DVK916
Not everywhere in the U.S is one sided. In my H.S and college we use Howards Zinn book which is very critical of the U.S, hell my H.S teacher even did this thing on the evils of american history. All of the evil things the U.S did, like massacare over 500,000 women and children in the filipines. How we nuked Japan for no good reason. Stuff you don't get in alot of other class rooms.

Yeah, that sounds like a unbiased book :roll:

Before the nuke Japan offered a conditional surrender. The U.S and Allies refused to accept a conditional surrender.

What were the Japanese conditions?

What? You don't know?

Wow. :roll:
 

DVK916

Banned
Dec 12, 2005
2,765
0
0
Read howard zinns book, it is a standard in most U.S history classes now, or atleast it should be. The U.S is moving away from being one sided with our history.
 

iamwiz82

Lifer
Jan 10, 2001
30,772
13
81
Originally posted by: DVK916
Originally posted by: iamwiz82
Originally posted by: DVK916
Not everywhere in the U.S is one sided. In my H.S and college we use Howards Zinn book which is very critical of the U.S, hell my H.S teacher even did this thing on the evils of american history. All of the evil things the U.S did, like massacare over 500,000 women and children in the filipines. How we nuked Japan for no good reason. Stuff you don't get in alot of other class rooms.

Yeah, that sounds like a unbiased book :roll:

Before the nuke Japan offered a conditional surrender. The U.S and Allies refused to accept a conditional surrender.

And the Japanese refused an unconditional military surrender. They rejected the Potsdam Declaration, which specifically stated "...The alternative for Japan is complete and utter destruction."
 

loic2003

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2003
3,844
0
0
lol I always think that American history is such a cop-out subject since the history only goes back 5 minutes... I'm just joking though, the story of how the US came to be is quite interesting, and I'm sure you could study it for a decade and still not know the half of it.

I never studied it at school other than Pre-GCSE. I dropped history when I started my GCSEs as at the time I figured it a waste of time studying past events and figured history could be of no more use than for interesting anecdote. Science was more up my street. These days, I appreciate history (hell, it repeates itself, doesn't it?) and am facinated by the ancient past and how people devoted all their lives to religions etc.
 

Feldenak

Lifer
Jan 31, 2003
14,090
2
81
Originally posted by: DVK916
Originally posted by: Feldenak
Originally posted by: DVK916
Not everywhere in the U.S is one sided. In my H.S and college we use Howards Zinn book which is very critical of the U.S, hell my H.S teacher even did this thing on the evils of american history. All of the evil things the U.S did, like massacare over 500,000 women and children in the filipines. How we nuked Japan for no good reason. Stuff you don't get in alot of other class rooms.

That's just plain stupid. You really need to reevaluate your Anti-American bent. You think you could get this many chins eating dog in the land of your ancestors?

Just telling you what we learned in my U.S history class in college and H.S

Your instructors were idiots.
 

DVK916

Banned
Dec 12, 2005
2,765
0
0
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: DVK916
Originally posted by: iamwiz82
Originally posted by: DVK916
Not everywhere in the U.S is one sided. In my H.S and college we use Howards Zinn book which is very critical of the U.S, hell my H.S teacher even did this thing on the evils of american history. All of the evil things the U.S did, like massacare over 500,000 women and children in the filipines. How we nuked Japan for no good reason. Stuff you don't get in alot of other class rooms.

Yeah, that sounds like a unbiased book :roll:

Before the nuke Japan offered a conditional surrender. The U.S and Allies refused to accept a conditional surrender.

What were the Japanese conditions?

What? You don't know?

Wow. :roll:

Something about keeping thier military and such.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
48,241
37,648
136
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: DVK916
Originally posted by: iamwiz82
Originally posted by: DVK916
Not everywhere in the U.S is one sided. In my H.S and college we use Howards Zinn book which is very critical of the U.S, hell my H.S teacher even did this thing on the evils of american history. All of the evil things the U.S did, like massacare over 500,000 women and children in the filipines. How we nuked Japan for no good reason. Stuff you don't get in alot of other class rooms.

Yeah, that sounds like a unbiased book :roll:

Before the nuke Japan offered a conditional surrender. The U.S and Allies refused to accept a conditional surrender.

What were the Japanese conditions?

What? You don't know?

Wow. :roll:

Didn't your mother tell you to watch out for trolls under bridges?

:p

 

MmmSkyscraper

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2004
9,472
1
76
Originally posted by: Atheus

Britain, soldiers served - 11,115,000, dead/missing - 580,000
USA, soldiers served - 11,260,000, dead/missing - 318,274
Russia, soldiers served - 34,476,700, dead/missing - 8,668,400

:Q
rose.gif
 

DVK916

Banned
Dec 12, 2005
2,765
0
0
Originally posted by: iamwiz82
Originally posted by: DVK916
Originally posted by: iamwiz82
Originally posted by: DVK916
Not everywhere in the U.S is one sided. In my H.S and college we use Howards Zinn book which is very critical of the U.S, hell my H.S teacher even did this thing on the evils of american history. All of the evil things the U.S did, like massacare over 500,000 women and children in the filipines. How we nuked Japan for no good reason. Stuff you don't get in alot of other class rooms.

Yeah, that sounds like a unbiased book :roll:

Before the nuke Japan offered a conditional surrender. The U.S and Allies refused to accept a conditional surrender.

And the Japanese refused an unconditional military surrender. They rejected the Potsdam Declaration, which specifically stated "...The alternative for Japan is complete and utter destruction."

What is so terrible about a conditional military surender.
 

BrokenVisage

Lifer
Jan 29, 2005
24,770
12
81
Originally posted by: Platypus
Originally posted by: Citrix
Originally posted by: Platypus
Probably as one-sided as American text books on the subject.. interesting though, maybe some UK AT'ers can reply about their school experience.

my school books were not one-sided. we were taught and understood what the war was about and why we were fighting the brits, and why the brits were fighting us.


Interesting.. everything up to and including high school was ridiculous.. although once I was in high school history, my teachers taught the real history of things and even made fun of the texts if I recall.

History is such a beguiling subject, simply because lots of things that have happened in our past can be falsified and reconstructed to the content of those in power, especially back centuries ago. What happens is many professors of History think they can read through the supposed facts in our books and tell their side of the story as a parallel to what is said to have happened. I have no problem with this, it even led to some nice debates in my College History course, but if what the professor teaches contradicts whats in the textbook he's suppose to be teaching off of then it can get a little dicey with homework/tests/reports.
 

Feldenak

Lifer
Jan 31, 2003
14,090
2
81
Originally posted by: MmmSkyscraper
Originally posted by: Atheus

Britain, soldiers served - 11,115,000, dead/missing - 580,000
USA, soldiers served - 11,260,000, dead/missing - 318,274
Russia, soldiers served - 34,476,700, dead/missing - 8,668,400

:Q
rose.gif

IIRC, Stalin liked frontal assaults and would just repeatedly throw men into meat grinders. The other Allies tended to "care" more for the troops.
 

iamwiz82

Lifer
Jan 10, 2001
30,772
13
81
Originally posted by: Feldenak
Originally posted by: MmmSkyscraper
Originally posted by: Atheus

Britain, soldiers served - 11,115,000, dead/missing - 580,000
USA, soldiers served - 11,260,000, dead/missing - 318,274
Russia, soldiers served - 34,476,700, dead/missing - 8,668,400

:Q
rose.gif

IIRC, Stalin liked frontal assaults and would just repeatedly throw men into meat grinders. The other Allies tended to "care" more for the troops.

I have to wonder how many Russians died of friendly fire. I knew it happened in Stalingrad, but I was watching a documentary on the last days of Berlin, and they had German troops saying that it was happening there too. Russians would just mow down any Russian troops retreating.
 

Feldenak

Lifer
Jan 31, 2003
14,090
2
81
Originally posted by: DVK916
Originally posted by: iamwiz82
Originally posted by: DVK916
Originally posted by: iamwiz82
Originally posted by: DVK916
Not everywhere in the U.S is one sided. In my H.S and college we use Howards Zinn book which is very critical of the U.S, hell my H.S teacher even did this thing on the evils of american history. All of the evil things the U.S did, like massacare over 500,000 women and children in the filipines. How we nuked Japan for no good reason. Stuff you don't get in alot of other class rooms.

Yeah, that sounds like a unbiased book :roll:

Before the nuke Japan offered a conditional surrender. The U.S and Allies refused to accept a conditional surrender.

And the Japanese refused an unconditional military surrender. They rejected the Potsdam Declaration, which specifically stated "...The alternative for Japan is complete and utter destruction."

What is so terrible about a conditional military surender.

If you can't run with the big dogs, keep your ass on the porch. Japan fvcked up with the sneak attack on Pearl, the raping of SE Asia, and in general, being allied with Germany.
 

DVK916

Banned
Dec 12, 2005
2,765
0
0
Originally posted by: Feldenak
Originally posted by: MmmSkyscraper
Originally posted by: Atheus

Britain, soldiers served - 11,115,000, dead/missing - 580,000
USA, soldiers served - 11,260,000, dead/missing - 318,274
Russia, soldiers served - 34,476,700, dead/missing - 8,668,400

:Q
rose.gif

IIRC, Stalin liked frontal assaults and would just repeatedly throw men into meat grinders. The other Allies tended to "care" more for the troops.

And we can thank Russia for doing the most to end WW2.