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How did we get here? Phil Donahue of course

KMFJD

Lifer
Was reading this article and thought it was an interesting read and worth a share:



What do you think happened to America to bring about a President like Trump?
So this is going to sound really silly but hear me out.
The person responsible for Donald Trump is actually someone I used to watch on television, someone who I respected a great deal for his levelheaded analysis and complex understanding on many topics important to Americans; a man who was trying to give the average man and woman a voice in public affairs of importance. His name, which some of you will know, is Phil Donahue.

Prior to Donahue, Americans would sit and watch television as a passive audience. We listened and sometimes formed opinions but we were not given a public voice, a platform for our often ignorant ideas. In many ways, this was good. A layman often knows nothing about the complexity of mathematics, physics, economics, philosophy, etc., and without some significant time and effort is generally incapable of grasping them. Consequently, the people provided a public platform to discuss topics were people who were knowledgeable in their fields and, because the rest of us were not given the opportunity to talk on those topics (because we really knew nothing about them), we listened and learned.

Then Donahue came along and did what seemed like a brilliant idea at the time. Having heard an audience member call out something in contradiction to one of his guests, he went to the person and gave him (or her, I cannot exactly recall) the opportunity to publicly disagree. Now, to his great credit, Donahue did not merely accept what his audience members said, he would artfully point out their ignorance, or give the guest the opportunity to respond and explain why they were incorrect. The Donahue show was a civil setting for discourse, at least in the beginning - and the new technique, which was the beginning of reality television, improved the ratings. Why? Because Joe Blow finally felt like he was being given the opportunity that only those with actual knowledge, the experts, were given before - Joe and Josephine Blow now had a public forum. They were also given the opportunity for fame.

Suddenly, anyone could obtain a little fame, with no qualifications or accountability, for the ignorant things they might say publicly through the medium of television. Soon, others caught on to the new way of being famous, and the silly desire to be noticed caused large numbers of people to begin saying something, anything, no matter how ridiculous, to get their fifteen minutes. Eventually, Donahue’s audience members were standing up and disagreeing solely for the purpose of getting noticed, not because they even cared about the topic. Of course, despite Donahue’s best efforts, there wasn’t time in the soundbite setting Donahue provided to root out the idiots and explain their ignorance. Moreover, part of the “fun” (and increased ratings) of the show became watching Phil run from one person to the next and seeing his expressions of exasperation at things they might say. Consequently, Joe and Josephine began receiving just as much voice (and air time) as the experts and without any time for logical refutation. The average person, having no special understanding or knowledge, was now heard by the millions watching from home, even more than the expert guests who actually knew what they were talking about.

https://www.quora.com/What-do-you-t...out-a-President-like-Trump/answer/Martin-Veil
 
I'm pretty sure we got here when the republican party embraced identity politics and courted southern evangelicals. From there it morphed into a "win at all costs" mentality which peaked with newt Gingrich and his way of thinking and led to what we have now, a political party that obstructs when it doesn't have power and riggs the system to maintain its power when it is in power.

Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, fox news, Glen Beck, Alex Jones, Sean Hannity, and manny more are simply bi-products of the 60's (70's) republican machine.
 
Was reading this article and thought it was an interesting read and worth a share:
I'm glad you did. I find the premise of giving voice to average people and them using it for ego gratification playing a greater part in what is happening in our country today than many might suspect,
 
Prior to Donahue, Americans would sit and watch television as a passive audience. We listened and sometimes formed opinions but we were not given a public voice, a platform for our often ignorant ideas. In many ways, this was good. A layman often knows nothing about the complexity of mathematics, physics, economics, philosophy, etc., and without some significant time and effort is generally incapable of grasping them.

Oh boy. Sounds like Democracy.
A rather poor system, just not as bad as the alternatives we had previously come up with.

The "layman" was given a voice, and eventually that lead to one getting the Presidency. Maybe not the best idea our people had come up with.

Yet it speaks to a founding principle of America. Are not all men created equal? Equal rights? Equal... access? Position, and station in life? Perhaps we misunderstood the meaning of all being equal. Surely Trump is not the equal to our prior Presidents?
 
I'm glad you did. I find the premise of giving voice to average people and them using it for ego gratification playing a greater part in what is happening in our country today than many might suspect,

I think a greater problem might be the bubblefication of our views. It's still ego driven though as people feel good in hearing others say the same things they are feeling. However it's the ease of being able to ignore/filter contrary views/facts that I see as the problem. When people are able to dismiss facts or create/hear alternative realities we are in trouble.
 
I'm pretty sure we got here when the republican party embraced identity politics and courted southern evangelicals. From there it morphed into a "win at all costs" mentality which peaked with newt Gingrich and his way of thinking and led to what we have now, a political party that obstructs when it doesn't have power and riggs the system to maintain its power when it is in power.

Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, fox news, Glen Beck, Alex Jones, Sean Hannity, and manny more are simply bi-products of the 60's (70's) republican machine.

Winning at top down class warfare since 1980. Divide & conquer has always been a huge part of it. Do I need to quote LBJ?
 
I think a greater problem might be the bubblefication of our views. It's still ego driven though as people feel good in hearing others say the same things they are feeling. However it's the ease of being able to ignore/filter contrary views/facts that I see as the problem. When people are able to dismiss facts or create/hear alternative realities we are in trouble.
These are all factual points in my opinion, but they seem to me to be more derivative and a consequence of the factor the link focuses on, a desire for attention, and the human factors of our condition that outlet to garner attention triggers.

Before you can have alternate reality beliefs, or bubbles, you have to have a case for that position that a lot of people also agree with at an emotional level. There needs to be a need, and that need, I think, if because our democracy is dead. The government is run by and for the wealthy to benefit them, and the rest of us cattle are just along for the ride.

So when ordinary people suddenly get excited by having a voice and feeling proud of the attention, bells go off that here is money to be made. We get Springer and Heraldo Limpbrow and others and of course the Republican party quickly piling in to insure the message that is given fits with their political aims. And this is, of course, as was suggested in the link, that it is. There is money to be made wherever angry eyes can be directed to a problem that will fix hemorrhoids or vote for a person you would otherwise know would give you them. People who are asleep form a machine that eats itself. Self hate is the driver of the need for attention.
 
These are all factual points in my opinion, but they seem to me to be more derivative and a consequence of the factor the link focuses on, a desire for attention, and the human factors of our condition that outlet to garner attention triggers.

Before you can have alternate reality beliefs, or bubbles, you have to have a case for that position that a lot of people also agree with at an emotional level. There needs to be a need, and that need, I think, if because our democracy is dead. The government is run by and for the wealthy to benefit them, and the rest of us cattle are just along for the ride.

So when ordinary people suddenly get excited by having a voice and feeling proud of the attention, bells go off that here is money to be made. We get Springer and Heraldo Limpbrow and others and of course the Republican party quickly piling in to insure the message that is given fits with their political aims. And this is, of course, as was suggested in the link, that it is. There is money to be made wherever angry eyes can be directed to a problem that will fix hemorrhoids or vote for a person you would otherwise know would give you them. People who are asleep form a machine that eats itself. Self hate is the driver of the need for attention.
Anonymity plays a huge role in all of this. How many "Reality " hosts rather than shoving a microphone in a commenter's face first said "this is John Smith from podunkville Iowa, what's your question? " It certainly wouldn't eliminate the 30 seconds of fame crowd but, it would greatly reduce it. That's the thing, there are no controls just like the internet.
 
Anonymity plays a huge role in all of this. How many "Reality " hosts rather than shoving a microphone in a commenter's face first said "this is John Smith from podunkville Iowa, what's your question? " It certainly wouldn't eliminate the 30 seconds of fame crowd but, it would greatly reduce it. That's the thing, there are no controls just like the internet.
I agree, when you hate yourself, you fear what others will think of you because you project your own feelings onto them. Anonymity tends to reduce that fear of experiencing personal shame from ridicule. That is also what makes the group bubble appealing, the safety of herd membership.
 
Society functions more like a pendulum. When there is an excess of a particular attitude, it gets resisted by its opposite by an organization of those who are "progressive". Until that becomes the excess. It is a fantasy that someone will lead knowledgeably about the impending overcorrection and who can push for progress while honoring the value of what is currently in excess.

In that time, there was a reverence for those who earned status as experts -- doctors, scientists, etc. The common public deferred to them and idealized them without appreciating their human faults. This swung another way where we have devalued a college degree and find that those representing authority are not to be trusted due to their quest for power and money. We emphasized the potential of all individuals and taught everyone to trust themselves and gave them great access to information without tools on how to interpret or verify basic accuracy of it. We sacrificed union jobs, pensions, etc. which made the 50s dream plausible and American manufacturing and agriculture viable for middle class families.

But neither is right. It's all relative. And the individuals who think independently and capable of challenging their own identifications as rare as ever. Trump is an odd duck. Promising the ideals of a bygone era but doing so by capitalizing on our value of individualism and distrust of authority.
 
The part about communication being facilitated by a third party that is trying to manipulate the parties that are conversing shoots straight to the heart of one of the major issues with large internet companies.
Hehe, sure does and I can still feel an irrational, or apparently irrational fear of having to pay for content. Not very encouraging morally speaking.
 
Donahue maintained civility on his show. It took Geraldo and then Jerry to send the concept into the gutter.

Pretty much this Phil Donahue attempted to keep the discussions on his show at least based in the realms of logic and reason...
Later other hosts fed the touchy feely emotional side and brought those out in place of logical discussion starting with Oprah then others went and took it into the gutter...
Had all other hosts followed Donahues format the talk shows would be rather staid today by comparison.


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