How did the economy go from such surpluses to such deficits?

GoingUp

Lifer
Jul 31, 2002
16,720
1
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Dont give me some lame answer like Bush ruined it.

Is it because of the september 11th attacks and the economy suffering afterwards due to less flights, high insurance, consumers worrying? Dot com crashing? How did all the states and the fed govt go into debt so fast?
 

glugglug

Diamond Member
Jun 9, 2002
5,340
1
81
Reagan started the downward spiral.
Bush Sr. accelerated it.
Clinton slowed it a bit.
Bush Jr. actively looks for ways to force it down faster.

 

GoingUp

Lifer
Jul 31, 2002
16,720
1
71
Originally posted by: glugglug
Reagan started the downward spiral.
Bush Sr. accelerated it.
Clinton slowed it a bit.
Bush Jr. actively looks for ways to force it down faster.

Just what I was looking for... thanks asshat
 

Insane3D

Elite Member
May 24, 2000
19,446
0
0
Originally posted by: Gobadgrs
Originally posted by: glugglug
Reagan started the downward spiral.
Bush Sr. accelerated it.
Clinton slowed it a bit.
Bush Jr. actively looks for ways to force it down faster.

Just what I was looking for... thanks asshat

Look, can't you just ignore his post or something rather than call him a name because you don't agree?
 

rchiu

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2002
3,846
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What do you mean don't give you some lame anser like Bush runied it?

Check how much he spent after he came into the office. One tax cut in 2001 and one now, plus all the increase in budget, most significantly military spending. Of course the bad economy didn't help but the Federal government spending was the main cause of such high deficit.
 

Jmman

Diamond Member
Dec 17, 1999
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Well, in actuality the surplus was really just a "projected surplus". It wasn't like the money was in the bank or something. With the collapse of the stock market and the subsequent huge reduction in tax revenue from the economic slowdown, combined with the increased spending from such things as homeland defense, the war in Iraq, etc, we are seriously in the red......:(
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
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War on Terruh
Enron
Airline Bailouts
War on Terruh
Gas Pricing Troubles
Fear to fly === lotsa lost revenues
Tasks becoming more automated requiring less employees
WorldCom

DotComs and Personal Computer BOOM were the biggest reasons the Clinton Economy did so well.. even Bush could have kept that economy alive.


^these are just ideas...
 

SuperTool

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
14,000
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Let's see the difference between 1998 and 2003.
Control of Congress? Nope
Fed chairman? Nope
President? Why, YES

Who would have thunk it ;)
 

GoingUp

Lifer
Jul 31, 2002
16,720
1
71
Originally posted by: Jmman
Well, in actuality the surplus was really just a "projected surplus". It wasn't like the money was in the bank or something. With the collapse of the stock market and the subsequent huge reduction in tax revenue from the economic slowdown, combined with the increased spending from such things as homeland defense, the war in Iraq, etc, we are seriously in the red......:(

Thanks... thats the answer I was lookin for...
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,801
6,357
126
Originally posted by: Jmman
Well, in actuality the surplus was really just a "projected surplus". It wasn't like the money was in the bank or something. With the collapse of the stock market and the subsequent huge reduction in tax revenue from the economic slowdown, combined with the increased spending from such things as homeland defense, the war in Iraq, etc, we are seriously in the red......:(

Very true, especially concerning the "projected surplus".

Something interesting though, if the Tax Cuts were to be canceled/reversed, there would be a small Surplus as a result. Of course this is simply based upon amounts of taxes no longer collected as a result of the Tax Cuts and doesn't take into account the possibility that the Tax Cuts may have had some positive impact on the Economy.
 

tcsenter

Lifer
Sep 7, 2001
18,949
574
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It would be like 'predicting' that you'll make 3x as much next year than you did last year, so expenditure-lust sets in. You run - not walk - run out and spend based not on what you can afford now, but what you're 'predicting' you can afford to spend because you're going to make all this money next year. Except, 'all this money next year' never happens.

Really just your standard American fiscal wisdom.


 

HombrePequeno

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2001
4,657
0
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Well the internet bubble burst which took quite a bit of money out of the economy. September 11th hurt it even more. Also giving tax cuts while increasing spending doesn't help reduce the budget.
 

LeadMagnet

Platinum Member
Mar 26, 2003
2,348
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Originally posted by: TheBDB
A combination of increased spending and decreased tax revenue?

That says it all. The goverment got used to that big growing revenue for all their pet pork projects.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0
The Democrats are Tax and Spend and the Republicans are Tax Cut and Spend. I think the Republicans forgot that they were suppose to be fiscally Conservative.
 

phillyTIM

Golden Member
Jan 12, 2001
1,942
10
81
the republicans are hypocrites.... crying and whining about having a balanced budget, throughout clinton's term, yet now they spend us through the roof like a loose cannon, without rhyme or reason
 

XZeroII

Lifer
Jun 30, 2001
12,572
0
0
Don't listen to anyone here. All they care about is politics and slandering the other guy. If you take an economics course or actually looked at the situation objectively, you would learn... (not in any specific order)

1. The economy moves in cycles. The 1990's were not typical. 10 years w/o a recession was unheard of. Typically, you have approx 4 years of good economy, then a short recessions, then things start to pick up again for another 4 years. It's called the Business Cycle. The number of years of good/bad economy doesn't matter, just that recession is normal.
2. During periods of economic growth, our gov't typically gets more $$$ and with proper spending controls, we should be able to have some surpluses.
3. During recessions, our gov't gets less $$$ and typically runs into debt. Usually we have longer periods of growth than recession, so we make up the debt during our growths.
4. Our economy is said to be going up when GDP is rising. GDP is Gross Domestic Product and it measures how much money is spent on new item purchases. Buying a new car increases GDP. Buying a used car does not. Our economy is said to go down when the GDP goes down.

(These next two are theoretical. That means this is what SHOULD happen according to economists)
5. If people have more money, they will spend more money. When people spend more money, GDP goes up.
6. If a business has more money (because people spend more), they will be able to increase production and hire more workers or pay their existing workers more. When they hire more workers or pay existing workers more, more people have more money to spend. See item 5.

This is all stuff you would learn about in your first couple WEEKS of introductory economics. I don't think anyone could argue with what I just said. Learn this stuff before you say another word on anything having to do with our economy.

Here is the more controversial stuff, but it's all simply fact...

7. The economy started going downhill in 1999, during Clinton's term.
8. We fell into a recession approx one month after Bush took office. This means that there is no way that Bush could be in any way responsible for the recession. First because recession is normal and can't be stopped anyway. Second, he also can't possibly be directly or indirectly responsible for it because nothing he could have done would have such a quick impact on the economy.
9. Cutting taxes is one major way to fight recessions. Usually, one of the first things to do when faced with a recessions is to cut taxes. This will leave more money in individual's pockets, thus they will be willing to spend more. Bush implemented round the board tax cuts which means that everyone got a tax break, not just the rich. Please don't bring up that old rhetoric about the rich getting an unfair share of the cuts. That is another issue that I will not discuss because it's too lengthy. Suffice to say, it is not a good arguement.
10. Another way to fight a recession (which I do not personally agree with) is to increase gov't spending. This will send more money to business' as the gov't buys stuff from them. Once the business' have more money, they will hire more people which means that people will have more money to spend, and yadda yadda yadda (if you don't get it, take an economics class). I don't like this method because our gov't is spend happy and I feel like they are just bypassing the system when the do this. Limited increases in gov't spending is ok, but it shouldn't be major.
11. Another way to fight recession is to lower interest rates. Only the prime interest rate can be directly controlled (the rate banks charge each other for overnight loans). This means that people can borrow more (for less) and thus they will have more money and they will spend more, etc...
12. Bush has used all 3 of these tools to fight this recession. Technically, the recession ended long ago, but no one can figure out why unemployment has not risen. Normally, when business' get more money, they will hire more workers, but they have not. One oppinion is that our jobs are going overseas or that immigrants are coming in and taking all our jobs. There is no concrete evidence one way or the other. (my oppinoin: Since no one knows why unemployment has not risen, it is unfair to blame Bush for this.)

I'm sure there is more, but hopefully after reading this you will be more informed and we can stop all this nonsensical bickering.
 

BOBDN

Banned
May 21, 2002
2,579
0
0
Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx
Originally posted by: Gobadgrs
Originally posted by: glugglug
Reagan started the downward spiral.
Bush Sr. accelerated it.
Clinton slowed it a bit.
Bush Jr. actively looks for ways to force it down faster.

Just what I was looking for... thanks asshat


You read my mind :)

That must've been a very short read.

"How did the economy go from such surpluses to such deficits?"

Bush ruined it.
 

rchiu

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2002
3,846
0
0
Originally posted by: Jmman
Well, in actuality the surplus was really just a "projected surplus". It wasn't like the money was in the bank or something. With the collapse of the stock market and the subsequent huge reduction in tax revenue from the economic slowdown, combined with the increased spending from such things as homeland defense, the war in Iraq, etc, we are seriously in the red......:(

Wrong, it was not only projected surplus, we had an actual surplus of $281 billion in year 2000. And had projected surplus of $5.6 trillion by year 2011. Clinton used quite a bit of those surplus to pay off US debt, so those surplus were used in something, not just paper money.

Bush started the handoff by announcing a trillion dollar tax cut in 2001 because he thought we got plenty of money. But then once the economy went south and tax reveune reduced, did he call off the tax cut? Plus if you review his budget, in a shrinking economy, you would think the budget would reduced proportionally, but did it? I am not even gonna mention about starting a war without careful planning and knowing the cost.

It's clear that that this admin is only interested in its political agenda without regard to the fundamental economy health of this country.
 

lozina

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
11,711
8
81
Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx
Originally posted by: glugglug
The slope on this graph should make things a bit more clear:

link




This makes that so-called chart "a bit more clear."


"Welcome to Butt-head's Cool Page"


Well, if you're too spoiled and need to be fed by a silver spoon:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/fy2004/pdf/hist.pdf

Take the data from the historical chart and plot it in excel.

It's also interesting to see the debt as a percentage of the GDP. A little while after Bush took office, but before 9/11, it shot up and continues to do so.