How Democrats are handing Donald Trump a 2nd Term as POTUS.

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SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,001
126
bull fucking donkey shit.


I don't understand why you dolts can't understand that views can change and if a political party no longer fights for the ideals a voter considers important, it is ok to vote for the party that better does so. I'm still for the same things, equality, our liberties protected, fair treatment of people, etc. It is just that the Democrats are no longer the party that best represents those things for me. The Democrats today have radicalized (that "Green New Deal" is far from mainstream, and you guys lapped it up...) and no longer holds common sense views. "But Trump!" and "orange man bad" isn't a platform.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
I have a mother in law that is of the "minority groups" that works as a cashier for Walmart. She has grown depressed based on the amount of people she sees on benefits that for some reason have amazing clothing, amazing vehicles, and are overall not suffering. Yet they have drastic government benefits as well. How is that helping the case of getting people to feel productive, useful, and self sufficient? It doesn't. It got to the point where she feels so bad that she feels like she needs to apply because it's being so drastically abused.

How does she know they have drastic govt benefits? Because they used a SNAP benefits ebt card to buy some groceries? That's the only way she could possible determine that somebody is receiving benefits at all. Even that doesn't mean they receive those benefits all the time, either.
 

Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
5,037
2,615
136
I'm not concerned. There are plenty of issues to rally around and at the end of the day you're not converting minds but just playing the turn out game. All you have to do is run ads about people dying in botched military exercises, or no gays in the military or trump not knowing the Lord's prayer at presidential funerals or admitting to barebacking prostitutes whilst his wife was pregnant or caving on the longest government shutdown which was held for no freaking reason or locking kids in cages at the border and then caving on that too and you're good. Don't even run policy stuff. Make it purely personal because that's on what level most people are operating anyway.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,643
50,877
136
Hey, the guy who supported the Trump tax cuts (30 something percent support, depending on source and time) wants you to know that the Democrats don’t support mainstream ideas. Instead they support radical options out of the mainstream like Medicare for all (70% support)
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,747
40,188
136
I don't see how the worst potus we've ever had who is also a Putin stooge gets another term.

Tax fear is one thing, but the overwhelming majority of Americans don't want a mentally ill criminal at the wheel. A lot of Trump has been exposed to light in the last 2 years, and he's lost a significant slice of his support among the non teaparty types.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,001
126
I'm not concerned. There are plenty of issues to rally around and at the end of the day you're not converting minds but just playing the turn out game. All you have to do is run ads about people dying in botched military exercises, or no gays in the military or trump not knowing the Lord's prayer at presidential funerals or admitting to barebacking prostitutes whilst his wife was pregnant and you're good. Don't even run policy stuff. Make it purely personal because that's on what level most people are operating anyway.


Yea, run with those. Trump beat a crowded and deep GOP primary field and then won what might be the biggest political upset in US history because he was underestimated and all the left had was smear tactics and attacks on him. Maybe with a better candidate than Hillary it could work, but I think the left has to get back to moderates by stop being so radical.
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,008
8,041
136
Make it purely personal because that's on what level most people are operating anyway.
But Clinton already fell for that trap.
Meanwhile, places in economic decay flipped over an economic message from Trump.
He needs to be combated, and challenged over his lies and his failures, but policy is important.

2016Forum_Fig9_768x538.png
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,643
50,877
136
I don't see how the worst potus we've ever had who is also a Putin stooge gets another term.

Tax fear is one thing, but the overwhelming majority of Americans don't want a mentally ill criminal at the wheel. A lot of Trump has been exposed to light in the last 2 years, and he's lost a significant slice of his support among the non teaparty types.

Mainly what he has going for him is that presidents usually get re-elected, period. Research shows that economically what happens in the six months prior to the election is generally what’s important. What he has going against him is that he’s the most enduringly unpopular president in history. It’s not just liberals either, independents dislike him too.

His other big problem is that opinions on him are basically fixed and nothing that happens really changes his support much from somewhere around 38-42%. This may save him from impeachment but steady polls when you’re averaging 40% are very bad news. Recent polling has it at basically 50% of voters who say they will not vote for him under any circumstances, which spells trouble, not to mention the midterm blowout where voters clearly stated they were principally voting against Trump.

If he’s doing this badly with the economy performing well that tells you he’s much closer to his ceiling than his floor. If we go into a recession lord only knows how hated he will become.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
48,095
37,304
136
But Clinton already fell for that trap.
Meanwhile, places in economic decay flipped over an economic message from Trump.
He needs to be combated, and challenged over his lies and his failures, but policy is important.

Yes, the GOP has zero bullets in their policy gun that might even slightly interest most of the country. The whole 2020 campaign is going to be run on them trying to gin up fear that the Democrats will ruin the country. Wasn't so much a winning idea for 2018 so I'm skeptical the results are going to improve a lot. If Trump runs around the rust belt saying he fixed everything there could be enormous voter blowback.

McConnell is going to try and do a show vote on the GND in an effort to try pinning down Dems (won't work) but what it really exposes is how bare the conservative cupboard is of any goals/ideas whatsoever.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,643
50,877
136
Yes, the GOP has zero bullets in their policy gun that might even slightly interest most of the country. The whole 2020 campaign is going to be run on them trying to gin up fear that the Democrats will ruin the country. Wasn't so much a winning idea for 2018 so I'm skeptical the results are going to improve a lot. If Trump runs around the rust belt saying he fixed everything there could be enormous voter blowback.

McConnell is going to try and do a show vote on the GND in an effort to try pinning down Dems (won't work) but what it really exposes is how bare the conservative cupboard is of any goals/ideas whatsoever.

Oh yes, even if it weren't Trump 2020 was always going to be a shitstorm because as you say, the GOP has literally no policies that regular people want to run on. It will be entirely about how the Democrats are going to let the gay Mexican rapists get us.

This isn't exactly new though, The Onion pegged this years ago:

DAhC5lMXkAARZmo.jpg:large
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,040
136
Oh yes, even if it weren't Trump 2020 was always going to be a shitstorm because as you say, the GOP has literally no policies that regular people want to run on. It will be entirely about how the Democrats are going to let the gay Mexican rapists get us.

This isn't exactly new though, The Onion pegged this years ago:

DAhC5lMXkAARZmo.jpg:large
Republicans will trot out the old. tired campaign con.
Socialists, abortion, high taxes, and the scary brown people.
It's worked for decades on the simple minded.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,221
4,452
136
If Trump runs around the rust belt saying he fixed everything there could be enormous voter blowback.

He is not going to go around saying he fixed everything, that would be counterproductive since a large part of his base are people angry that things are not fixed, instead he is going to go around saying how he knows how to fix everything, and would have too if it wasnt' for those pesky Democrats.

The goal of the Republicans is, as always, to get enough power to enact their agenda, but not so many that they can't blame the Democrats for not enacting the agenda they told people about.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,643
50,877
136
He is not going to go around saying he fixed everything, that would be counterproductive since a large part of his base are people angry that things are not fixed, instead he is going to go around saying how he knows how to fix everything, and would have too if it wasnt' for those pesky Democrats.

The goal of the Republicans is, as always, to get enough power to enact their agenda, but not so many that they can't blame the Democrats for not enacting the agenda they told people about.

Exactly, he will say 'everything was going great, we were winning the most and you guys were about to see everything be great again any minute but then the mean Democrats came in and ruined it.'
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
20,942
5,564
136
Oh yes, even if it weren't Trump 2020 was always going to be a shitstorm because as you say, the GOP has literally no policies that regular people want to run on. It will be entirely about how the Democrats are going to let the gay Mexican rapists get us.

This isn't exactly new though, The Onion pegged this years ago:

DAhC5lMXkAARZmo.jpg:large
Every person in this nation should get down on their knees and pray we get a president that was half the man Reagan was.
Carter was a good man, but simply didn't have the backbone for the job. Though he will likely remain the best ex-president the nation has ever had for a very long time.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,643
50,877
136
Every person in this nation should get down on their knees and pray we get a president that was half the man Reagan was.
Carter was a good man, but simply didn't have the backbone for the job. Though he will likely remain the best ex-president the nation has ever had for a very long time.

I personally think Reagan was very, very weak on the policy front (this is an understatement) and is frequently credited for turning around the economy that was actually turned around by a absolutely colossal interest rate cuts by the Fed. I won't get into Iran-Contra. That being said, I think he did a very good job of providing a vision for the country and acting as inspiration for a country that was looking for it.
 

UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
24,938
9,221
136
There is a pathway to Trump winning in 2020, and it's not all that unlikely. It involves the Mueller report being inconclusive in final language (with evidence or details being redacted or squashed and a long drawn-out court battle goes beyond the election.) If Nancy is smart, there will be no move for impeachment without damning evidence from the Mueller report. If the House votes to impeach without damning evidence (or worse, Nancy calls the vote and it fails even in the House) then GOP will be trumpeting that this whole investigation was a political farce from the get-go. All of Mueller's hard work will be for naught.

It also involves 20-30+ Democrats all vying for media attention, the media bending over backwards to provide coverage and analysis and debates, and the Dems policy message getting lost in the shuffle. They need to unify behind a common message if they ever want to beat Trump (and dissuade Schultz from running or at least keeping him off the ballot in critical states.) I don't think it necessarily has to be a centrist message either.

Dems need to stack rank their priorities for 2020 and plan the message accordingly. I'm just one voter, but my preferred list of priorities would be as follows:

Year 1:
1. Remove dark money from politics (i.e. we need a President that can get behind HR 1)
2. Eliminate voter-suppression tactics, gerrymandering and other shenanigans that undermine representative democracy (might be too late for 2020 Census)
3. Fair tax policy that generates enough revenue to pay for all our existing programs and keep SS solvent.
4. Fix Obamacare exchanges and/or work towards Medicaid expansion, prescription drug pricing or other steps needed before "Medicaid for all"
5. Restore the authority of CFPB and critical components of Dodd-Frank that were weakened under Trump.

Year 2:
1. Comprehensive immigration reform (permanent one-time DACA with path to citizenship; guest worker program that also taxes outflows of US cash going to Mexico/Central America to fund border security; mandatory e-verify; expanded caps on lawful immigration & refugees--build processing centers in Mexico or countries of origin.)
2. Criminal justice reform at the federal level with guidelines for states.
3. A "Baby" Green New Deal--restore incentives on electrification of vehicles and Obama CAFE rules, promote clean energy, sunset subsidies for ethanol, oil/gas exploration, offshore drilling, fracking etc. Get us back into the Paris accord and start working with cities and states on climate change mitigation plans.

Year 3 and Beyond:
- Now you can finally start worrying about "Medicaid for All", "free tuition", universal childcare, or any of the other dreamy stuff as well as major foreign policy/trade initiatives.
 
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SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,001
126
Every person in this nation should get down on their knees and pray we get a president that was half the man Reagan was.
Carter was a good man, but simply didn't have the backbone for the job. Though he will likely remain the best ex-president the nation has ever had for a very long time.

Reagan was anti-2A, tax & spend, big government incarceration, and the Iran Contra leaves a big blemish too. I think he's overrated. But, the economy did well with him in office and the Soviets withered under him, so he is not without his merits, too.

*edit - And an argument could be made that he created Osama bin Laden as the terrorist he became.
 
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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
48,095
37,304
136
He is not going to go around saying he fixed everything, that would be counterproductive since a large part of his base are people angry that things are not fixed, instead he is going to go around saying how he knows how to fix everything, and would have too if it wasnt' for those pesky Democrats.

The goal of the Republicans is, as always, to get enough power to enact their agenda, but not so many that they can't blame the Democrats for not enacting the agenda they told people about.

I'm sure that will, in part, be the approach but he and the GOP have left themselves open to a lot of avenues of attack since Trump's populist promises have all been left for dead.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
48,095
37,304
136
There is a pathway to Trump winning in 2020, and it's not all that unlikely. It involves the Mueller report being inconclusive in final language (with evidence or details being redacted or squashed and a long drawn-out court battle goes beyond the election.) If Nancy is smart, there will be no move for impeachment without damning evidence from the Mueller report. If the House votes to impeach without damning evidence (or worse, Nancy calls the vote and it fails even in the House) then GOP will be trumpeting that this whole investigation was a political farce from the get-go. All of Mueller's hard work will be for naught.

It also involves 20-30+ Democrats all vying for media attention, the media bending over backwards to provide coverage and analysis and debates, and the Dems policy message getting lost in the shuffle. They need to unify behind a common message if they ever want to beat Trump (and dissuade Schultz from running or at least keeping him off the ballot in critical states.) I don't think it necessarily has to be a centrist message either.

Dems need to stack rank their priorities for 2020 and plan the message accordingly. I'm just one voter, but my preferred list of priorities would be as follows:

Year 1:
1. Remove dark money from politics (i.e. we need a President that can get behind HR 1)
2. Eliminate voter-suppression tactics, gerrymandering and other shenanigans that undermine representative democracy (might be too late for 2020 Census)
3. Fair tax policy that generates enough revenue to pay for all our existing programs and keep SS solvent.
4. Fix Obamacare exchanges and/or work towards Medicaid expansion, prescription drug pricing or other steps needed before "Medicaid for all"
5. Restore the authority of CFPB and critical components of Dodd-Frank that were weakened under Trump.

Year 2:
1. Comprehensive immigration reform (permanent one-time DACA with path to citizenship; guest worker program that also taxes outflows of US cash going to Mexico/Central America to fund border security; mandatory e-verify; expanded caps on lawful immigration & refugees--build processing centers in Mexico or countries of origin.)
2. Criminal justice reform at the federal level with guidelines for states.
3. A "Baby" Green New Deal--restore incentives on electrification of vehicles and Obama CAFE rules, promote clean energy, sunset subsidies for ethanol, oil/gas exploration, offshore drilling, fracking etc. Get us back into the Paris accord and start working with cities and states on climate change mitigation plans.

Year 3 and Beyond:
- Now you can finally start worrying about "Medicaid for All", "free tuition", universal childcare, or any of the other dreamy stuff as well as major foreign policy/trade initiatives.


Agenda Item 1 on year 1 should be to revise the apportionment formula to properly represent urban areas in the US House and admit all US territories (that pass a referendum) and DC as states.
 
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thilanliyan

Lifer
Jun 21, 2005
11,944
2,175
126
I'm someone that just a few short years ago could never have seen myself voting for someone like Trump. But, the left has radicalized so much, they've replaced common sense with extremism today to the point that now I cannot see myself voting for a Democrat over Trump.
What policies has Trump enacted that bettered your life?
Calling for "socialist" policies like universal healthcare is not extremism...most Americans SUPPORT that, unless you are calling 70% of Americans extremists?
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,336
136
How Trump will win in '20:
- The Mueller report will not be made public.
- Trump moves to the middle with 'socialist' policies like paid family leave and health care reform.
- The Dems will nominate a weak candidate, like Warren.
- Schultz runs as an independent, stealing about 5% of the Dem votes.

Trumps wins with maybe 45% of the popular vote and just over 300 electorals.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,336
136
I'm someone that just a few short years ago could never have seen myself voting for someone like Trump. But, the left has radicalized so much, they've replaced common sense with extremism today to the point that now I cannot see myself voting for a Democrat over Trump.
Why do you keep repeating this lie after how many times your own post history has shown you to be a hardcore right wing Republican going back to your join date in 2005?
 
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Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
11,880
8,300
136
Eliminating voter suppression isn't really possible without really redrawing state lines and creating new states so the heavy voter suppression states don't have victims to suppress.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,136
30,086
146
Every person in this nation should get down on their knees and pray we get a president that was half the man Reagan was.
Carter was a good man, but simply didn't have the backbone for the job. Though he will likely remain the best ex-president the nation has ever had for a very long time.

This country couldn't survive a president half of what Reagan was, again. That guy was a treasonous, traitorous piece of murdering shit, and only made to look better because of Dubs and Trump. Nixon was a saint compared to those others, tbh.

People love to forget how monumentally unpopular Reagan was when he was leaving, but the Newt/Rush/O'Reilly movement to completely reinvent and re-write the history of the man, rather soon into our already short-term memories, was quite effective.