How dare these activist judges mess with Good Christians like this

[DealMonkey]

Not to even get into the whole issue of a fetus not being the same as an eleven-year old kid. FFS, I don't even know why I talk to you imbeciles half the time.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Not to even get into the whole issue of a fetus not being the same as an eleven-year old kid. FFS, I don't even know why I talk to you imbeciles half the time.

At what point is it no longer a fetus? 3rd trimester? When the head is crowning? When the umbilical cord is cut?

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: FaaR
Religion is an interesting concept.

I once saw a movie clip from a midevial monastery in Italy, famous for its chapel which had beautiful ceiling frescoes, during an earthquake. The ceiling of the chapel collapsed and fell on some monks, killing around seven of them. It was quite a brutal sight actually, unlike a movie when people get struck by rubble, you knew those people that disappeared under smoke and debris DIED for real, right there on the screen.

So I have to wonder how religious people justify events like that. Why would any god deliberately drop his own house of worship on his followers, where's the logic in that?

It would have to be a pretty mean-spirited god to do such a thing wouldn't you say... Or an insane one.

..Or one could conclude, that there is no logic, and no god, and instead just random events that occur naturally and spontaneously.

I know which one I'd rather choose.

I was visited by a priest in school, probably over a quarter century ago now. He said he knew prayer worked because he'd lost his wallet one day, he'd prayed over it, and then recovered his wallet. I can't remember if he found it himself or if someone else did it for him.

My take on the matter of prayer is, you can't be certain prayer works unless your lost wallet appears in a puff of smoke and falls to the ground right in front of you. ...Coz, it's possible to find lost items even without praying about it, and often lost (or rather, stolen) things remain stolen no matter how much you pray about it.

Several years ago I worked with a self-proclaimed born-again Christian woman. We sometimes talked about religion, and one day the subject was miracles, which I claimed (and still claim) to NEVER have experienced. She told me a story that she said reinforced her faith in God's active role in our daily lives. Years earlier (she told me), her then-infant daughter was happily rolling around on a bed (or a sofa or something like that). For some reason, the woman was carrying several utensils, including a large knife across the room, but she somehow stumbled, lost control of her collection, and dropped the knife. At the same instant, the baby rolled off the bed and fell to the floor, where she landed on her back. The knife flew, point downward, and imbedded itself in the floor about a half inch from the infant's eye.

So the woman was profoundly moved by this example of God sparing her daughter.

Naturally, I asked her why God had allowed her daughter to fall off the bed.

 

[Atreus21]

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: FaaR
Religion is an interesting concept.

I once saw a movie clip from a midevial monastery in Italy, famous for its chapel which had beautiful ceiling frescoes, during an earthquake. The ceiling of the chapel collapsed and fell on some monks, killing around seven of them. It was quite a brutal sight actually, unlike a movie when people get struck by rubble, you knew those people that disappeared under smoke and debris DIED for real, right there on the screen.

So I have to wonder how religious people justify events like that. Why would any god deliberately drop his own house of worship on his followers, where's the logic in that?

It would have to be a pretty mean-spirited god to do such a thing wouldn't you say... Or an insane one.

..Or one could conclude, that there is no logic, and no god, and instead just random events that occur naturally and spontaneously.

I know which one I'd rather choose.

I was visited by a priest in school, probably over a quarter century ago now. He said he knew prayer worked because he'd lost his wallet one day, he'd prayed over it, and then recovered his wallet. I can't remember if he found it himself or if someone else did it for him.

My take on the matter of prayer is, you can't be certain prayer works unless your lost wallet appears in a puff of smoke and falls to the ground right in front of you. ...Coz, it's possible to find lost items even without praying about it, and often lost (or rather, stolen) things remain stolen no matter how much you pray about it.

Several years ago I worked with a self-proclaimed born-again Christian woman. We sometimes talked about religion, and one day the subject was miracles, which I claimed (and still claim) to NEVER have experienced. She told me a story that she said reinforced her faith in God's active role in our daily lives. Years earlier (she told me), her then-infant daughter was happily rolling around on a bed (or a sofa or something like that). For some reason, the woman was carrying several utensils, including a large knife across the room, but she somehow stumbled, lost control of her collection, and dropped the knife. At the same instant, the baby rolled off the bed and fell to the floor, where she landed on her back. The knife flew, point downward, and imbedded itself in the floor about a half inch from the infant's eye.

So the woman was profoundly moved by this example of God sparing her daughter.

Naturally, I asked her why God had allowed her daughter to fall off the bed.

How, then, in a world without any higher force, did the vast majority of humans throughout the entire history of our species came to attribute all this to a wise and good creator?

Do you seriously believe that you are among the enlightened few who, at long last, are liberated from mankind's most pervasive superstition? Has every thinker, philosopher, and teacher who fundamentally believed in God(s) since the beginning of time been a deluded fool?

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: Atreus21

Originally posted by: shira
Several years ago I worked with a self-proclaimed born-again Christian woman. We sometimes talked about religion, and one day the subject was miracles, which I claimed (and still claim) to NEVER have experienced. She told me a story that she said reinforced her faith in God's active role in our daily lives. Years earlier (she told me), her then-infant daughter was happily rolling around on a bed (or a sofa or something like that). For some reason, the woman was carrying several utensils, including a large knife across the room, but she somehow stumbled, lost control of her collection, and dropped the knife. At the same instant, the baby rolled off the bed and fell to the floor, where she landed on her back. The knife flew, point downward, and imbedded itself in the floor about a half inch from the infant's eye.

So the woman was profoundly moved by this example of God sparing her daughter.

Naturally, I asked her why God had allowed her daughter to fall off the bed.

How, then, in a world without any higher force, did the vast majority of humans throughout the entire history of our species came to attribute all this to a wise and good creator?

Do you seriously believe that you are among the enlightened few who, at long last, are liberated from mankind's most pervasive superstition? Has every thinker, philosopher, and teacher who fundamentally believed in God(s) since the beginning of time been a deluded fool?

I believe humans evolved to believe in a world controlled by magical forces because it gave them the strength to cope with hardships that they might otherwise have been unable to overcome. A similar phenomenon - with advantages theorized by psychologists - is the tendency of children (about two-thirds of them) to invent "imaginary friends." If you're going to argue that the prevalence of a belief is evidence of the validity of the believe, even in the absence of any underlying objective evidence to support it, then you must also believe that the imaginary friends of children are actually real.

I wouldn't use the word "enlightened," since that has connotations that don't apply to me. But I'm better educated than most, and it's a well documented fact that the belief in God decreases as the level of education increases. Light pierces darkness.

People aren't deluded fools just for believing in God. But it's a good start.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: NaughtyGeek

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: NaughtyGeek

. What happens in my family due to my beliefs is my business whether that be a detriment or a saving grace.

no, its not. Someone has to protect children from their moron parents, they aren't your property for you to do as you wish.

Says you, and in your defense the law in most cases as well. That doesn't change the fact that I signed no contact with you agreeing to live as you see fit and it is only by my choice that I will or will not choose to live by your morally "superior" rules. Whether you disagree or not has no bearing on that fact. Live and let live my friend, my life and my family are certainly no business of yours unless I choose to make it so.

Nope. Your children didn't sign a contract to be stuck with a douche of a parent, as you no doubt are.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: JS80
What about atheists who mistreat their kids and cause them to die. Will you FUCK ATHEISM then?
What about all the religious people who live normals lives like the rest of us?
If some hippies cause their kid to die because of holistic medicine then will you FUCK HIPPIE LIBERALS?

Stupid people are stupid. Don't pin this one on religion. There is not one passage in the Bible that discourages medical treatment. If there was, all us religious wingnuts would have been Darwin'ed out of existence.

if atheists kill there kids because of atheism, then you would have a legitimate point. We already fuck hippies for stupid vegan/holistic shit.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: NaughtyGeek

Originally posted by: JS80
Islam on the other hand in the Koran has very explicit instructions on how to deal with infidels.

You are taking the jackholes that exploit the Christian church's religious authority for political purposes and extrapolating it to the entire people who follow Christ. Here's a clue: it's not a duck this time.

O'rly?

To your second point, I'm saying that those who say the Muslim faith is more violent than Christianity "are taking the jackholes that exploit the Muslim church's religious authority for political purposes and extrapolating it to the entire people who follow Allah."

The Koran is full of ambiguity when it comes to violence. And most followers in western countries obviously choose the "good" to trump over the ambiguity. However, like I said before, Christ is never ambiguous in his teachings; he always teaches to side with humility. Turn the other cheek. There is nothing in there you can misinterpret to commit such acts such as the Crusades.

But to your statement, we can obviously conclude that stupid people are stupid, and sociopaths are sociopaths, and its unfortunate some use religion to exploit power.

the bible pretty self contractory, ever looked at the old testament?

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Atreus21


Do you seriously believe that you are among the enlightened few who, at long last, are liberated from mankind's most pervasive superstition? Has every thinker, philosopher, and teacher who fundamentally believed in God(s) since the beginning of time been a deluded fool?

yes?


its not like atheism is new, in a large potion of people throughout history have been atheists; ie Buddhists and Confucians

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Atreus21
How, then, in a world without any higher force, did the vast majority of humans throughout the entire history of our species came to attribute all this to a wise and good creator?

Do you seriously believe that you are among the enlightened few who, at long last, are liberated from mankind's most pervasive superstition? Has every thinker, philosopher, and teacher who fundamentally believed in God(s) since the beginning of time been a deluded fool?

That's always been my central question on whether or not god exists. The only answer that has ever made sense is that we humans, being sentient, have a natural tendency to wonder why we are here, why we exist, and questions how we got here in the first place. I imagine it's a common theme among any sentient beings that might arise in our universe. In order to answer that question to the best of their knowledge, humans have attributed that to a higher power. After all, how can one not look at everything that surrounds us and not conclude that there is some sort of creator?

However, what bothers me is the complete failure of humans to come to a concensus of who that god, or gods, are. If there truly was only one he would have made it perfectly clear to everyone, with no ambiguity. There are still hundreds, if not thousands, of gods worshipped to this day. Even the idea of a single god is a realtively recent human belief. Before that there were multiple gods.

In the last few centuries science has demonstrated that a god is not really a necessity for human existence and as science continues to advance the likelyhood of a god become more and more a superstitious belief.

People used to believe all kinds of superstitious things in the past that were not grounded in reality. imo, belief in a god is another one of those same superstitious beliefs.

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian
Parents screw up their kids. It's their job. They did a great job here. They screwed up and lost their daughter. If that isn't enough punishment how can any amount of prison time be?

They were stupid enough to believe that mumbling to themselves would magically cure their daughter. I doubt that they're learning anything from this. 1) There'll be grief initially. 2) They're likely also following the delusion that their daughter is in a magic happy place of "afterlife." 3) They probably think it's all part of God's beautiful, perfect plan anyway.
They likely wouldn't think twice about taking the same course of inaction the next time something like this would happen.

Originally posted by: Vic
Made up ad homs like that usually do. Critical thinking is far from FNE's strong suit. It might get in the way of his ideology.

Anyway, my issue with these faith healers is that IMO they demonstrate a serious lack of faith. God already answered their prayers in the form of modern medicine, yet they persist in challenging Him for a greater sign.

Or rather, humanity answered their prayers in the form of modern medicine, devised and researched by people. Until I see God in a lab coat doing some actual work, I'd sooner assign responsibility for our achievements to those who make the accomplishments.


I wonder how many other aspects of modern technology they shun? Maybe they'd feel at home with the Amish.
(Of course, at one time, horse-drawn carriages were considered modern technology, as was woven cloth. Imagine that.)

Originally posted by: JS80
What about atheists who mistreat their kids and cause them to die. Will you FUCK ATHEISM then?
What about all the religious people who live normals lives like the rest of us?
If some hippies cause their kid to die because of holistic medicine then will you FUCK HIPPIE LIBERALS?

Stupid people are stupid. Don't pin this one on religion. There is not one passage in the Bible that discourages medical treatment. If there was, all us religious wingnuts would have been Darwin'ed out of existence.

Like I say, I'm just so glad that the Bible was written so very clearly that it leaves no room for (mis)interpretation. The writer(s) sure did a hell of a good job there.

Originally posted by: Atreus21
How, then, in a world without any higher force, did the vast majority of humans throughout the entire history of our species came to attribute all this to a wise and good creator?

Do you seriously believe that you are among the enlightened few who, at long last, are liberated from mankind's most pervasive superstition? Has every thinker, philosopher, and teacher who fundamentally believed in God(s) since the beginning of time been a deluded fool?

It's something of a systemic problem, like a bug in the software. People want to have something watching them, something to keep them safe, even if it's totally useless. Give a kid a security blanket or a stuffed animal, and tell them that the object will keep them safe from nonexistent threats like monsters. Right away, they feel better. It's a placebo effect. And wouldn't you know it, monsters never leap out of the closet or from under the bed, so that teddy bear must surely be doing its job.
Once you get older though, you realize that a blanket or other inanimate object has no real powers. You need a new protector. A really powerful one, something to protect you from threats bigger than imagined monsters. The world's a big, dangerous place. You need a really powerful friend that's everywhere, all the time. And so, you have this god/deity thing.

But then you notice that bad things still seem to happen, and not things that can be blamed on people, like murder. Earthquakes and hurricanes still show up and cause incredible devastation and death. So where was this protector? Time to rationalize it away - we can't possibly understand such a powerful being.
I guess that means that it's ok if this deity decides to kill more than 200,000 people with an earthquake and a subsequent tsunami.


Point is, the myths of deities are told in some form to children at a young age, and it's a comforting idea for our primate minds to maintain, a parent figure that is always there. And it just sticks there, like a computer virus, eventually seeking to perpetuate itself, when these kids grow to become parents of their own, infecting their own children with the myth of a god.

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: Atreus21


Do you seriously believe that you are among the enlightened few who, at long last, are liberated from mankind's most pervasive superstition? Has every thinker, philosopher, and teacher who fundamentally believed in God(s) since the beginning of time been a deluded fool?

yes?


its not like atheism is new, in a large potion of people throughout history have been atheists; ie Buddhists and Confucians

As they say, if you believe in the Christian God, you're an atheist toward the hundreds or thousands of other possible deities out there. And history is obviously not ending yet. New religions have yet to spring up. Your Christian God might not even be the right one. Maybe we are still 500,000 years away from finding the one TRUE god, and since we're all not believing in that one yet, we're all going to Ultra-Hell for 34 eternities of torment.