How D. Rodman can help the North Korean people (Letter from an escaped NK prisoner)

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
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I thought this was very powerful.

Dear Mr. Rodman:

I have never met you, and until you visited North Korea in February I had never heard of you. Now I know very well that you are a famous, retired American basketball player with many tattoos. I also understand that you are returning this week to North Korea to coach basketball and perhaps visit for the third time with the country’s dictator, Kim Jong Un, who has become your friend.

I want to tell you about myself. I was born in 1982 in Camp 14, a political prison in the mountains of North Korea. For more than 50 years, Kim Jong Un, his father and his grandfather have used prisons such as Camp 14 to punish, starve and work to death people who the regime decides are a threat. Prisoners are sent to places like Camp 14 without trial and in secret. A prisoner’s “crime” can be his relation by blood to someone the regime believes is a wrongdoer or wrong-thinker. My crime was to be born as the son of a man whose brother fled to South Korea in the 1950s.

You can see satellite pictures of Camp 14 and four other labor camps on your smartphone. At this very moment, people are starving in these camps. Others are being beaten, and someone soon will be publicly executed as a lesson to other prisoners to work hard and obey the rules. I grew up watching these executions, including the hanging of my mother.

On orders of the guards in Camp 14, inmates are forced to marry and create children to be raised by guards to be disposable slaves. Until I escaped in 2005, I was one of those slaves. My body is covered with scars from torture I endured in the camp.

Mr. Rodman, if you want to know more about me, I will send you a book about my life, “Escape From Camp 14.” Along with the stories of many other camp survivors, my story helped persuade the United Nations to create a commission of inquiry that is now investigating human rights atrocities in my country. I was “witness number one.” In the coming year, the commission’s findings may force the U.N. Security Council to decide whether to approve a trial in the International Criminal Court of the Kim family and other North Korean officials for crimes against humanity.

I happen to be about the same age as your friend Kim Jong Un. But if you ask him about me, he is likely to refer to me as “human scum.” That is how his state-controlled press refers to me and all other North Koreans who have risked death by fleeing the country. Your friend probably also will deny that Camp 14 exists, which is the official position of his government. If he does, you can show him pictures of it on your phone.

Mr. Rodman, I cannot presume to tell you to cancel your trip to North Korea. It is your right as an American to travel wherever you wish and to say whatever you want. It is your right to drink fancy wines and enjoy yourself in luxurious parties, as you reportedly did in your previous trips to Pyongyang. But as you have a fun time with the dictator, please try to think about what he and his family have done and continue to do. Just last week, Kim Jong Un ordered the execution of his uncle. Recent satellite pictures show that some of the North’s labor camps, including Camp 14, may be expanding. The U.N. World Food Programme says four out of five North Koreans are hungry. Severe malnutrition has stunted and cognitively impaired hundreds of thousands of children. Young North Korean women fleeing the country in search of food are often sold into human-trafficking rings in China and beyond.

I am writing to you, Mr. Rodman, because, more than anything else, I want Kim Jong Un to hear the cries of his people. Maybe you could use your friendship and your time together to help him understand that he has the power to close the camps and rebuild the country’s economy so everyone can afford to eat.

No dictatorship lasts forever. Freedom will come to North Korea someday. When it does, my wish is that you will have, in some way, helped bring about change. I end this letter in the hope that you can use your friendship with the dictator to be a friend to the North Korean people.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...8e55dc-6689-11e3-8b5b-a77187b716a3_story.html

TL/DR - Dennis Rodman is a piece of shit.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
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Wow. Rodman is in a way no different from all the other celebrities who cozy up to brutal foreign dictators from Chavez to Hussein, but none of those have stunted an entire nation via malnutrition.

I read a white paper a few years back about how the average North Korean is roughly 6" - 8" shorter IIRC than the average South Korean. The authors made the point (which may or may not be true) that in as little as a thousand years the North Koreans could well be a genetically separate species as various mechanisms for coping with chronic malnutrition become genetically fixed. Although Lord willing, their oppression won't last anything like that long.
 

Zaap

Diamond Member
Jun 12, 2008
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I've changed my view on this- almost entirely from watching the Vice documentary on NK- which coincided with Rodman's last trip to NK.

Understand: the statist nitwits running NK (and their most sheepish followers among the populace) are forever as hopeless as statist nitwits anywhere. They're not the ones who benefit from westerners visiting NK.

But the common, everyday people of NK- every time they are exposed to foreiners, and are allowed some small contact with the outside world, and the more they are little by little allowed (inadvertently because the leadership of NK is so clueless, like all statists) to see that everything they've been told about the west and westerners is just lies, the more barriers are broken down.

The government of NK is too far gone up their own cloud of horseshit to even realize that they are little by little, sowing the seeds of their own demise- they actually think they're running a successful propaganda campaign in the OPPOSITE direction. (They believe allowing in influential westerners convinces those people that NK is just awesome, that Dear Leader is the shit, and that they are then coming back to the US and raving about how kickass NK is).

They have ZERO CLUE that the opposite effect is actually taking place- that their citizens who are really just ordinary, average people capable of reason and desiring of freedom if they actually know what freedom is, are the ones who are slowly but surely being changed.

The fact is, NK isn't going to invite over anyone but people they think are influential enough for their own propaganda campaign, hence, someone famous like Dennis Rodman. So that's who goes. Along with him, goes a small entourage, camera crews, etc. (At least in terms of the Vice trip). Every one of those people eventually comes into contact with average NK citizens, who then get some small exposure to the west and westerners, and start to see that we're not their enemies.

It's a process that will take a lot of time, but the more the barriers come down, the more the same thing that happened to the Soviet Union will happen to NK- newer generations of NK citizens less brainwashed as the current, having had exposure to the outside world, will eventually want better than their statist nitwit leadership.

Just sentencing everyone in NK to forever be the victims of their asshole government with no glimpses into the outside world is NOT the way to go. It was foreigners bring in bluejeans and walkmans and video tapes of outside TV shows that eventually helped fuel and avalanche that brought down the Soviet bullshit union. And it'll be similar that eventually brings sanity to NK.

You can just ball up your fist and say "FUCK NK!!!! AND SCREW EVERY WESTERNER THAT GOES THERE!!!!" all you want- but that approach will actually never get us anywhere.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
I've changed my view on this- almost entirely from watching the Vice documentary on NK- which coincided with Rodman's last trip to NK.

Understand: the statist nitwits running NK (and their most sheepish followers among the populace) are forever as hopeless as statist nitwits anywhere. They're not the ones who benefit from westerners visiting NK.

But the common, everyday people of NK- every time they are exposed to foreiners, and are allowed some small contact with the outside world, and the more they are little by little allowed (inadvertently because the leadership of NK is so clueless, like all statists) to see that everything they've been told about the west and westerners is just lies, the more barriers are broken down.

The government of NK is too far gone up their own cloud of horseshit to even realize that they are little by little, sowing the seeds of their own demise- they actually think they're running a successful propaganda campaign in the OPPOSITE direction. (They believe allowing in influential westerners convinces those people that NK is just awesome, that Dear Leader is the shit, and that they are then coming back to the US and raving about how kickass NK is).

They have ZERO CLUE that the opposite effect is actually taking place- that their citizens who are really just ordinary, average people capable of reason and desiring of freedom if they actually know what freedom is, are the ones who are slowly but surely being changed.

The fact is, NK isn't going to invite over anyone but people they think are influential enough for their own propaganda campaign, hence, someone famous like Dennis Rodman. So that's who goes. Along with him, goes a small entourage, camera crews, etc. (At least in terms of the Vice trip). Every one of those people eventually comes into contact with average NK citizens, who then get some small exposure to the west and westerners, and start to see that we're not their enemies.

It's a process that will take a lot of time, but the more the barriers come down, the more the same thing that happened to the Soviet Union will happen to NK- newer generations of NK citizens less brainwashed as the current, having had exposure to the outside world, will eventually want better than their statist nitwit leadership.

Just sentencing everyone in NK to forever be the victims of their asshole government with no glimpses into the outside world is NOT the way to go. It was foreigners bring in bluejeans and walkmans and video tapes of outside TV shows that eventually helped fuel and avalanche that brought down the Soviet bullshit union. And it'll be similar that eventually brings sanity to NK.

You can just ball up your fist and say "FUCK NK!!!! AND SCREW EVERY WESTERNER THAT GOES THERE!!!!" all you want- but that approach will actually never get us anywhere.
Maybe, but they are also getting the message that Dear Leader is admired by rich foreigners.
 

Zaap

Diamond Member
Jun 12, 2008
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They already get that message. NK is like the statist's dream on steroids- everything is about Dear Leader. They're taught to believe that literally *everything* is from Dear Leader- well, except for the crushing poverty, starvation, lack of virtually everything, etc.

The statist mentality is the same the world over- you'll find the exact same mindset right here in the US- seeking to have a Dear Leader type with just as much crazy authority over everyone as in NK- it's just that the few constraints of our constitution and political system doesn't fully allow it. (Not that many aren't trying to remove those barriers as well.)

Point is: people are fundamentally the same the world over. Just as there are people here that no matter how much propaganda horseshit you shovel at them, they'll always be of the mindset to see right past it and be capable of seeing what's really going on. Many people in NK know that Dear Leader is full of shit, and is the reason their lives suck. The only thing they may not know, is that the rest of the world isn't stuck in the same boat- because the crazy regime tells everyone that everywhere else is worse, and most common people have no way of peering outside the hermit kingdom and seeing that this isn't the case.

They also believe that everyone else in the world hates their living guts and wants to see them die, so that too works in the regime's favor.

My take is- why play into that? We in the west DON'T hate the people of NK- at least not if you're a normal sane human being. You just realize they're victims of an oppressive regime.

I want them to see the difference, no matter how it has to happen. There's no easy way of doing it. Once enough people see the truth, there will be no stopping them, and just like the case of the Soviet state, it will eventually collapse from within. It ALWAYS happens.

Statists are ALWAYS on the wrong side of human nature. ALWAYS. Their idiotic dreams of fooling all of the people all the time never work. The only way they can even hope to achieve that, it by completely isolating their people from the outside world, and just telling endless lies about it.

Every small contact with that outside world- even if it's just the entourage of some basketball star, or a film crew, or whoever, helps break down the wall of bullshit. Statist propaganda can never stand up to reality. Never has, never will. The smallest dose of reality shined into the darkness of places like NK is always a good thing.

It strikes me that people in the west have to somewhat believe the horseshit of NK propaganda NOT to realize that. Like you think their crazy leadership might have a point, that they're awesome and we suck. If so, then you'd be afraid of having anyone from our world visit theirs- they might see that their Dear Leader is right! But of course, most of us know there's nothing to fear in that direction, nothing what-so-ever. The regime is clueless, and even the smallest exposure to western influence is going to have an effect in the opposite direction from the system of absolute SHIT that is the reality of NK for the common citizen there. It's really a no-brainer.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,983
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They already get that message. NK is like the statist's dream on steroids- everything is about Dear Leader. They're taught to believe that literally *everything* is from Dear Leader- well, except for the crushing poverty, starvation, lack of virtually everything, etc.

The statist mentality is the same the world over- you'll find the exact same mindset right here in the US- seeking to have a Dear Leader type with just as much crazy authority over everyone as in NK- it's just that the few constraints of our constitution and political system doesn't fully allow it. (Not that many aren't trying to remove those barriers as well.)

Point is: people are fundamentally the same the world over. Just as there are people here that no matter how much propaganda horseshit you shovel at them, they'll always be of the mindset to see right past it and be capable of seeing what's really going on. Many people in NK know that Dear Leader is full of shit, and is the reason their lives suck. The only thing they may not know, is that the rest of the world isn't stuck in the same boat- because the crazy regime tells everyone that everywhere else is worse, and most common people have no way of peering outside the hermit kingdom and seeing that this isn't the case.

They also believe that everyone else in the world hates their living guts and wants to see them die, so that too works in the regime's favor.

My take is- why play into that? We in the west DON'T hate the people of NK- at least not if you're a normal sane human being. You just realize they're victims of an oppressive regime.

I want them to see the difference, no matter how it has to happen. There's no easy way of doing it. Once enough people see the truth, there will be no stopping them, and just like the case of the Soviet state, it will eventually collapse from within. It ALWAYS happens.

Statists are ALWAYS on the wrong side of human nature. ALWAYS. Their idiotic dreams of fooling all of the people all the time never work. The only way they can even hope to achieve that, it by completely isolating their people from the outside world, and just telling endless lies about it.

Every small contact with that outside world- even if it's just the entourage of some basketball star, or a film crew, or whoever, helps break down the wall of bullshit. Statist propaganda can never stand up to reality. Never has, never will. The smallest dose of reality shined into the darkness of places like NK is always a good thing.

It strikes me that people in the west have to somewhat believe the horseshit of NK propaganda NOT to realize that. Like you think their crazy leadership might have a point, that they're awesome and we suck. If so, then you'd be afraid of having anyone from our world visit theirs- they might see that their Dear Leader is right! But of course, most of us know there's nothing to fear in that direction, nothing what-so-ever. The regime is clueless, and even the smallest exposure to western influence is going to have an effect in the opposite direction from the system of absolute SHIT that is the reality of NK for the common citizen there. It's really a no-brainer.

Who would have thought that for once the most insane thing in a thread about North Korea would NOT be North Korea?
 

Zaap

Diamond Member
Jun 12, 2008
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^ And speaking of the insane statist nitwit mentality I was talking about that's like the perfect NK citizen just located elsewhere, meet one of the poster-children.

Remember, I'm talking about the reasonable SANE people that are trapped in NK. The statist nitwits are unreachable, writeoffs. Even when they live in the western world they pine away for a Dear Leader regime, so they're not who I'm talking about reaching, you simply CAN'T reach that insane mindset.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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^ And speaking of the insane statist nitwit mentality I was talking about that's like the perfect NK citizen just located elsewhere, meet one of the poster-children.

Remember, I'm talking about the reasonable SANE people that are trapped in NK. The statist nitwits are unreachable, writeoffs. Even when they live in the western world they pine away for a Dear Leader regime, so they're not who I'm talking about reaching, you simply CAN'T reach that insane mindset.

Like I said, what you wrote is somehow (and impressively) the most insane thing in a thread about North Korea. I can't imagine you actually believe this crazy shit you post, but on the offhand chance that you do please seek help.
 

Zaap

Diamond Member
Jun 12, 2008
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^ A nut that would fit right in in NK and believe *everything* Dear Leader told him, and blame everything on 'evil westerners' the same way he currently blames all his issues on 'evil rich people' and Republicans.

A writeoff. Not the type of person in NK or anywhere else that's able to be reasoned with, so obviously not who I'm talking about reaching.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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^ A nut that would fit right in in NK and believe *everything* Dear Leader told him, and blame everything on 'evil westerners' the same way he currently blames all his issues on 'evil rich people' and Republicans.

A writeoff. Not the type of person in NK or anywhere else that's able to be reasoned with, so obviously not who I'm talking about reaching.

Oh, so you're talking about some mythical type of enemy that you've cooked up in your mind. What a weird world you must live in.
 

Zaap

Diamond Member
Jun 12, 2008
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^Says a nut whose entire worldview is comprised of hatred and envy of successful people, convinced that if only we had a Dear Leader big govt powerful enough to take them down and teach them the evil of their daring-to-be-successful ways, then everything would be perfect. IE: the typical far-left statist mindset, IE: a subset of the same mindset that creates places like NK. IE: writeoffs. No one is wasting their time trying to reach your type, EXCEPT for the Dear Leaders of the world.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,983
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^Says a nut whose entire worldview is comprised of hatred and envy of successful people, convinced that if only we had a Dear Leader big govt powerful enough to take them down and teach them the evil of their daring-to-be-successful ways, then everything would be perfect. IE: the typical far-left statist mindset, IE: a subset of the same mindset that creates places like NK. IE: writeoffs. No one is wasting their time trying to reach your type, EXCEPT for the Dear Leaders of the world.

Right. Don't you see how insane this is? Do you really think this is the case, where I live my life filled with hatred and envy of success (despite being fairly successful myself, really)?

I mean this genuinely: if you actually think that's how other people view the world, you're insane. This is the type of thing where relatives cringe at family gatherings because you're doing the crazy uncle rant. Go meet some of these people who yearn to create a North Korea in America, you might be surprised at how much you like them and how much you have in common.

ie: they aren't anything like what you think, you're just so trapped in an ultra right wing bubble that you've lost all sense of reality. Seek help, you'll be happier.
 

davmat787

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2010
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Is there anyone out there besides me that often wonders about a sanctioned multilateral military action against NK based solely on humanitarian needs? Not only do they have at least a dozen gulags, but sometimes people are born there and die there, knowing nothing of the outside world or what it is like to be human.

Obviously there are serious consequences (thousands of innocents would die, SK, .etc) to this, and not to be taken lightly. But just how long can the world continue to ignore the human rights abuses of this despot ran shithole?
 

Zaap

Diamond Member
Jun 12, 2008
7,162
424
126
Right. Don't you see how insane this is? Do you really think this is the case, where I live my life filled with hatred and envy of success (despite being fairly successful myself, really)?

I mean this genuinely: if you actually think that's how other people view the world, you're insane. This is the type of thing where relatives cringe at family gatherings because you're doing the crazy uncle rant. Go meet some of these people who yearn to create a North Korea in America, you might be surprised at how much you like them and how much you have in common.

ie: they aren't anything like what you think, you're just so trapped in an ultra right wing bubble that you've lost all sense of reality. Seek help, you'll be happier.
Give it up. I've seen enough of your class-envy rants to know you're exactly a statist nitwit as charged. The only real objection you have to North Korea, is that you can actually see the end result, and you don't like it. You don't equate that end result with the very same idiocy that you believe in (overpowerful state, scapegoating your problems on the successful, etc.) but you subscribe the exact same mindset that created that situation in NK. It's not like the original selling points were the end result- it was all the pie-in-the sky idiocy that you fervently believe in! "We'll give you everthing you want! Dear Leader knows all, and will take care of you! We'll get even with all those greedy, evil, rich people you hate so much!" It's not like they actually stand up and say "We're going to make you hopelessly poor! You'll be resorting to canibalism! We're going to lock up everyone that we feel like locking up for no reason!" Statists are never actually honest about actual end-results, you just spew mindless propaganda that paints your crazy ideas as wonderful.

The content in the speeches of statist nitwits in NK are exactly the type of pablum you believe in, you just think that your brand of the same pablum will produce a different result. Same horrible economic ideas. The same class-envy and hatred of success. The same big government pipe dreams. The problem is, your ilk's insane ideas NEVER work- but then it isn't a results-based ideology, it's more like a crazy religion.

But like I say, you're a write-off. Hopefully, in the west, your crazy braindead economic ideas are always kept in check by all of those that know better. You have little chance of turning the country into Cuba or NK, so long as enough people that have common sense keep you from electing the type of Dear Leader assholes that would actually bring that type of craziness here. Now, to be certain, your ilk elects some crazy assholes that do damage to our country, but by no means have any of you yet succeeded in bringing on NK style damage yet. There's currently enough people to keep your craziness (and the craziness of the type of far-left nutbags you'd want in power) from going anywhere near that far.

NK and Cuba and other such places are examples where the balance tipped too far in the direction of your statist ilk.
 

Zaap

Diamond Member
Jun 12, 2008
7,162
424
126
Is there anyone out there besides me that often wonders about a sanctioned multilateral military action against NK based solely on humanitarian needs? Not only do they have at least a dozen gulags, but sometimes people are born there and die there, knowing nothing of the outside world or what it is like to be human.

Obviously there are serious consequences (thousands of innocents would die, SK, .etc) to this, and not to be taken lightly. But just how long can the world continue to ignore the human rights abuses of this despot ran shithole?
That'd just result in a complete blood-bath. Also, South Korea would suffer greatly- the North would probably invade the South. And political ties in that part of the world are super-complicated. Just as with the original Korean war, there's no telling how China and others would react to NK being attacked. No matter what humanitarian banner you wanted to put on it, it'd be cast as a war of aggression and used to say that the US is just as bad as the NK leadership paints it.

Honestly, there probably can never be wars for humanitarian reasons in order to free people from tyranny anymore. That type of action will always just be cast as imperialism. In this day and age (and honestly for most of human history) putting countless innocent people into gulags and slave labor camps, even murdering millions of people, simply isn't justification for military action. Oppressive regimes CAN enslave and murder their citizens and get away with it, and that likely won't change ever. Sad, but true.
 

rommelrommel

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2002
4,382
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Is there anyone out there besides me that often wonders about a sanctioned multilateral military action against NK based solely on humanitarian needs? Not only do they have at least a dozen gulags, but sometimes people are born there and die there, knowing nothing of the outside world or what it is like to be human.

Obviously there are serious consequences (thousands of innocents would die, SK, .etc) to this, and not to be taken lightly. But just how long can the world continue to ignore the human rights abuses of this despot ran shithole?

If China and Russia were on board it might be possible, but it would still mean hundreds of thousands dead, and then millions of starving brainwashed people to support somehow, many of whom will die before they change their mind about Dear Leader.
 

davmat787

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2010
5,513
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If China and Russia were on board it might be possible, but it would still mean hundreds of thousands dead, and then millions of starving brainwashed people to support somehow, many of whom will die before they change their mind about Dear Leader.

True, China and Russia would be key. I do wonder just how loyal the military truly is at various levels. Seems like many aren't as clueless as to how the rest of the world lives, and just how shitty they have it in comparison.

Anyway, this is all crazy talk anyway. No external military action will happen on the grounds of purely humanitarian reasons.
 
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Ventanni

Golden Member
Jul 25, 2011
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The more I think about it, I think half their army would lay down their arms at the first sight of South Korean and American soldiers for the chance at a better life. Who knows, I'll fully admit if I'm wrong, but hunger, for better or for worse, has an effect on individuals that surpasses loyalty.

Also, China and Russia would never allow it. If China or South Korea wanted to intervene on the grounds of humanitarianism, they would have already. Besides, the area is pretty ripe with xenophobia and historical bad blood. As much as it sickens my stomach, I think they're pretty content with watching North Korea waste away on their own.

As for Rodman, the whole ploy screams of CIA involvement. I don't mean to come off as a conspiracy theorist, but he's the only one who can get close to the inner circle of North Korea. New leader, fresh officials, lots of changes...he's the perfect guy to get in there and find out what's going on.
 

rommelrommel

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2002
4,382
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True, China and Russia would be key. I do wonder just how loyal the military truly is at various levels. Seems like many aren't as clueless as to how the rest of the world lives, and just how shitty they have it in comparison.

Anyway, this is all crazy talk anyway. No external military action will happen on the grounds of purely humanitarian reasons.

I think they're loyal to the idea of not getting executed. I too wonder just how much resolve the North really would have. They really have limited offensive capability... they would do a lot of damage to Seoul, but their ability to take any fight to South Korea is pretty damn limited. Their air force is a joke and even their SAM and artillery networks would probably only be in fighting shape for a week or so if under sustained attack by SK and the USA. They also have limited fortification in the north so China could steam roll them in short order. There are also persistent rumors that NK is pretty infiltrated by China so you could probably spread disinfo about a coup or attack by SK/USA/whoever and that China is coming to the rescue and have Chinese troops in Pyongyang before anyone knew any better.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
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Right. Don't you see how insane this is? Do you really think this is the case, where I live my life filled with hatred and envy of success (despite being fairly successful myself, really)?

I mean this genuinely: if you actually think that's how other people view the world, you're insane. This is the type of thing where relatives cringe at family gatherings because you're doing the crazy uncle rant. Go meet some of these people who yearn to create a North Korea in America, you might be surprised at how much you like them and how much you have in common.

ie: they aren't anything like what you think, you're just so trapped in an ultra right wing bubble that you've lost all sense of reality. Seek help, you'll be happier.
Dude, there is no one more supportive of creating a North Korea in America than you. You are as rigidly intolerant of diverse opinion, as supportive of ever-centralized power, as enthusiastic in ceding all wealth to government, and as morally flexible in supporting whatever your party does as Dear Leader could ever wish.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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Dude, there is no one more supportive of creating a North Korea in America than you. You are as rigidly intolerant of diverse opinion, as supportive of ever-centralized power, as enthusiastic in ceding all wealth to government, and as morally flexible in supporting whatever your party does as Dear Leader could ever wish.

Yeah because if it is one thing you are known for it os rational evaluation of people you deem to be progressives.
Lol.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,983
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Give it up. I've seen enough of your class-envy rants to know you're exactly a statist nitwit as charged. The only real objection you have to North Korea, is that you can actually see the end result, and you don't like it. You don't equate that end result with the very same idiocy that you believe in (overpowerful state, scapegoating your problems on the successful, etc.) but you subscribe the exact same mindset that created that situation in NK. It's not like the original selling points were the end result- it was all the pie-in-the sky idiocy that you fervently believe in! "We'll give you everthing you want! Dear Leader knows all, and will take care of you! We'll get even with all those greedy, evil, rich people you hate so much!" It's not like they actually stand up and say "We're going to make you hopelessly poor! You'll be resorting to canibalism! We're going to lock up everyone that we feel like locking up for no reason!" Statists are never actually honest about actual end-results, you just spew mindless propaganda that paints your crazy ideas as wonderful.

The content in the speeches of statist nitwits in NK are exactly the type of pablum you believe in, you just think that your brand of the same pablum will produce a different result. Same horrible economic ideas. The same class-envy and hatred of success. The same big government pipe dreams. The problem is, your ilk's insane ideas NEVER work- but then it isn't a results-based ideology, it's more like a crazy religion.

But like I say, you're a write-off. Hopefully, in the west, your crazy braindead economic ideas are always kept in check by all of those that know better. You have little chance of turning the country into Cuba or NK, so long as enough people that have common sense keep you from electing the type of Dear Leader assholes that would actually bring that type of craziness here. Now, to be certain, your ilk elects some crazy assholes that do damage to our country, but by no means have any of you yet succeeded in bringing on NK style damage yet. There's currently enough people to keep your craziness (and the craziness of the type of far-left nutbags you'd want in power) from going anywhere near that far.

NK and Cuba and other such places are examples where the balance tipped too far in the direction of your statist ilk.

There isn't anything to say to this outside of the fact that this is insane uncle thanksgiving shit. If you really believe this, you're nuts.

I genuinely, seriously recommend you take some basic political science courses, some basic economics courses, and see a certified therapist. You are dangerously divorced from reality.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
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Yeah because if it is one thing you are known for it os rational evaluation of people you deem to be progressives.
Lol.
And yet I can recognize that even proggies are sometimes correct, whereas you invariably display the rigid party line of North Korea no matter what mental gymnastics are necessary.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,983
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And yet I can recognize that even proggies are sometimes correct, whereas you invariably display the rigid party line of North Korea no matter what mental gymnastics are necessary.

This is a good example of how nuts you are as this is simply either ignorance or a lie.

By the way I case you've forgotten I'm not the only person that has commented on your craziness when it comes to this sort of thing.