How could Republicans vote for Bush?

[randym431]

My big problem with Bush is something I'd think most Republicans would agree with. And I could NEVER vote for a guy like GW because of it. One problem were his rallys. People were actually arrested and thrown out just because they wore some type of clothing or hinted anything less than 100% support for Bush. Even that lady that ask "why is my son dead", was taken away. Do you Republicans really find no problem with this??? Doesnt free speech mean anything anymore to Republicans? Kerry had two large rallys I went to here. One, anyone could come simply by calling or printing out generic tickets to the event from the Dem website. The last rally Kerry had was totally open. No tickets, no questions. At both Kerry rallys, I noticed many cars in the lot with Bush/Cheney bumper stickers. So I know Bush supporters were there watching Kerry. Yet, rally after rally Bush threw, seemed to have people signing loyality oths and being removed or arrested for not. Doesnt this remind you of a time back in Germany when "you know who" was in power? Really, how do you vote for someone like Bush? Can you explain it?
When Clinton had a rally here, back in 92, there were many Republicans in the back waving waffels in the air and chanting "waffel waffel waffel". Yet Clinton did not have them arrested. He just brushed it off. If Clinton had ask they be arrested and taken away that day, I would have never been able to support Clinton. Where's your outrage?

 

[FuzzyBee]

Originally posted by: randym431
My big problem with Bush is something I'd think most Republicans would agree with. And I could NEVER vote for a guy like GW because of it. One problem were his rallys. People were actually arrested and thrown out just because they wore some type of clothing or hinted anything less than 100% support for Bush. Even that lady that ask "why is my son dead", was taken away. Do you Republicans really find no problem with this??? Doesnt free speech mean anything anymore to Republicans? Kerry had two large rallys I went to here. One, anyone could come simply by calling or printing out generic tickets to the event from the Dem website. The last rally Kerry had was totally open. No tickets, no questions. At both Kerry rallys, I noticed many cars in the lot with Bush/Cheney bumper stickers. So I know Bush supporters were there watching Kerry. Yet, rally after rally Bush threw, seemed to have prople signing loyality oths and being removed or arrested for not. Doesnt this remind you of a time back in Germany when "you know who" was in power? Really, how do you vote for someone like Bush? Can you explain it?
When Clinton had a rally here, back in 92, there were many Republicans in the back waving waffels in the air and chanting "waffel waffel waffel". Yet Clinton did not have them arrested. He just brushed it off. If Clinton had ask they be arrested and taken away that day, I would have never been able to support Clinton. Where's your outrage?

Kerry's people just responded by making sure anybody with a Bush/Cheney t-shirt was obliterated from view.

Besides, wasn't Clinton using the cops to get numbers of hot chicks in the audience?

 

[Pliablemoose]

I liked his hair...

Honestly, these threads are tiresome too...

 

[charrison]

It was pretty easy. I just checked the box on the ballot.

 

[randym431]

But you're not answering my question. Which leads me to believe you just ignored these happenings at Bush rallys. How much are you willing to ignore? How much were the Germans willing to ignore?

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: randym431
But you're not answering my question. Which leads me to believe you just ignored these happenings at Bush rallys. How much are you willing to ignore? How much were the Germans willing to ignore?

Cad attended several rallies and they were open events.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: randym431
But you're not answering my question. Which leads me to believe you just ignored these happenings at Bush rallys. How much are you willing to ignore? How much were the Germans willing to ignore?

They aren't going to answer your question. There was a long thread about this before, with several examples, but I don't think any of the Bush supporters ever really addressed the issues. Mostly Cad just threw out denial after denial explaining how they never really happened. This was apparently based on the fact that Cad got to talk to a Secret Service agent once while he (Cad) was suppressing "goons" at one of their masses. He was actually quite proud of being on the "goon patrol".

But kudos for trying.


Edit: corrected quote

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: randym431
But you're not answering my question. Which leads me to believe you just ignored these happenings at Bush rallys. How much are you willing to ignore? How much were the Germans willing to ignore?

They aren't going to answer your question. There was a long thread about this before, with several examples, but I don't think any of the Bush supporters ever really addressed the issues. Mostly Cad just threw out denial after denial explaining how they never really happened. This was apparently based on the fact that Cad got to talk to a Secret Service agent once while he (Cad) was suppressing "goons" at one of their masses. He was actually quite proud of being on the "goon squad".

But kudos for trying.

Too late I already answered and I dont think Cad was ever on any goon squad....

 

[nageov3t]

Much like there are factions on the left, there are also factions on the right. Most fiscally conservative Republicans that I know do not like Bush. But the fact is, Kerry wasn't promising to do any better, and at the moment, the Republican party has been hijacked by the neocons and the religious right.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: randym431
But you're not answering my question. Which leads me to believe you just ignored these happenings at Bush rallys. How much are you willing to ignore? How much were the Germans willing to ignore?

They aren't going to answer your question. There was a long thread about this before, with several examples, but I don't think any of the Bush supporters ever really addressed the issues. Mostly Cad just threw out denial after denial explaining how they never really happened. This was apparently based on the fact that Cad got to talk to a Secret Service agent once while he (Cad) was suppressing "goons" at one of their masses. He was actually quite proud of being on the "goon squad".

But kudos for trying.

Too late I already answered and I dont think Cad was ever on any goon squad....

Then go back and read the thread. Those are his words. Also for the record, Cad's definition of "open" excludes anyone wearing buttons, shirts, etc. that did not support Bush. In Cad's view, that was de facto creating a disturbance and therefore justification for ejecting them.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: randym431
But you're not answering my question. Which leads me to believe you just ignored these happenings at Bush rallys. How much are you willing to ignore? How much were the Germans willing to ignore?

They aren't going to answer your question. There was a long thread about this before, with several examples, but I don't think any of the Bush supporters ever really addressed the issues. Mostly Cad just threw out denial after denial explaining how they never really happened. This was apparently based on the fact that Cad got to talk to a Secret Service agent once while he (Cad) was suppressing "goons" at one of their masses. He was actually quite proud of being on the "goon squad".

But kudos for trying.

Too late I already answered and I dont think Cad was ever on any goon squad....

Then go back and read the thread. Those are his words. Also for the record, Cad's definition of "open" excludes anyone wearing buttons, shirts, etc. that did not support Bush. In Cad's view, that was de facto creating a disturbance and therefore justification for ejecting them.

Which thread?

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: charrison
Which thread?

I believe it was the thread that started out about the two people with anti-Bush T-shirts. It was pretty wide-ranging over a couple of weeks, IIRC. His "goon squad" comment might have been in the thread where he was talking about working one of the campaign events. It should be easy to find by searching for "goon".


Edit: Here is the thread where he mentions being on the "goon patrol". It is about half way into the thread.

Also, I stand corrected. It was "goon patrol", not "goon squad" as I said. A rose by any other name ...

 

[bjc112]

Originally posted by: charrison
It was pretty easy. I just checked the box on the ballot.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: randym431
But you're not answering my question. Which leads me to believe you just ignored these happenings at Bush rallys. How much are you willing to ignore? How much were the Germans willing to ignore?

They aren't going to answer your question. There was a long thread about this before, with several examples, but I don't think any of the Bush supporters ever really addressed the issues. Mostly Cad just threw out denial after denial explaining how they never really happened. This was apparently based on the fact that Cad got to talk to a Secret Service agent once while he (Cad) was suppressing "goons" at one of their masses. He was actually quite proud of being on the "goon patrol".

But kudos for trying.

?

 

[jtusa]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: randym431
But you're not answering my question. Which leads me to believe you just ignored these happenings at Bush rallys. How much are you willing to ignore? How much were the Germans willing to ignore?

They aren't going to answer your question. There was a long thread about this before, with several examples, but I don't think any of the Bush supporters ever really addressed the issues. Mostly Cad just threw out denial after denial explaining how they never really happened. This was apparently based on the fact that Cad got to talk to a Secret Service agent once while he (Cad) was suppressing "goons" at one of their masses. He was actually quite proud of being on the "goon patrol".

But kudos for trying.

?

What? Disappointed less and less people are paying attention to you?

 

[13rian]

If this is the incident I'm thinking of, even my professor touched on this as an example of legal coercion and that she was arrested on the basis that she was a terrorist threat. Apparently there's a law that such disturbances can't be within 50ft in the presence of a President...

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: randym431
But you're not answering my question. Which leads me to believe you just ignored these happenings at Bush rallys. How much are you willing to ignore? How much were the Germans willing to ignore?

They aren't going to answer your question. There was a long thread about this before, with several examples, but I don't think any of the Bush supporters ever really addressed the issues. Mostly Cad just threw out denial after denial explaining how they never really happened. This was apparently based on the fact that Cad got to talk to a Secret Service agent once while he (Cad) was suppressing "goons" at one of their masses. He was actually quite proud of being on the "goon squad".

But kudos for trying.

Do you enjoy being a liar? Thought so.

What didn't happen was the SS being pawns of Bush. You morons need to get that straight. They act when things need attending to - ie when people cause a disturbance and/or security threat. They don't care if you have a button on - or have a "I hate Bush" t-shirt on, but will become involved if you create a scene if you are asked to remove it. Yes, I did chat with the SS at the first event I worked and repeated what he told me. Also, I talked with a group of three of them before the doors opened to the latest one too. The echoed what the first guy I spoke with said. But hey, if bow and others want to claim otherwise - they are free to ignore the truth.
The Bush/Cheney rallies I worked at (6 total) were open to those who properly gained tickets(free and no "oath" to sign) and presented themselves in a respectful manner. Those who wished to bring attention to themselves instead of being respectful were in some cases removed or not allowed entrance. These few occasions were brought on by the person in question - not the SS, the police, or President Bush.
Yes - I was on "goon patrol" for most of the events I worked. It was fun and we had very few issues. Infact - despite the claims and ASSumptions of some of the RBH crowd - we did allow people into the event who clearly weren't Bush supporters. I had the fortune of finding one guy with a kerry button on the inside of his hat(you could see it through the mesh). I simply asked him to remove the pin if he wished to attend this private event. He complied with my request and he entered. Damn - I guess that makes me Hitler for asking him to remove a pin.:roll:

Again for the logic impaired:
If you wish to attend a private event you shall be respectful of your host. This includes making yourself the center of attention - you personally are not the reason the event was being held. If you choose to disrespect your hosts - you can and will be asked to leave. If you are respectful you will have a great experience

And since I'm on the subject...
The last event was one of the best. It was Monday the day before the election. It was about 50 deg outside and it was raining all morning. I was outside for 5+ hours before the event working the line to get into the event. I was soaked!!! We didn't have one issue with morons that event -which was nice and I spent the majority of my time escorting those in wheelchairs and those with infant children to the front of the line so they could get out of the rain and cold quicker. It was by far the "worst" weather event but none of us seemed to mind too much -we were there for a reason and did what we could to make it as enjoyable to those attending as we could-desite the weather.
BTW - I got to meet and shake hands with Olympic gold medalist Cael Sanderson while escorting him past the security line. I also got the privilege to do the same for Senator Chuck Grassley.

Volunteering this election cycle was one of the best experiences of my life. I got to meet plenty of "powerful" and influential people and also thousands upon thousands of fellow citizens. I suggest others take the time to get involved in the system - it's where the "real" work gets done.

CsG

 

[gutharius]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Do you enjoy being a liar? Thought so.

What didn't happen was the SS being pawns of Bush. You morons need to get that straight. They act when things need attending to - ie when people cause a disturbance and/or security threat. They don't care if you have a button on - or have a "I hate Bush" t-shirt on, but will become involved if you create a scene if you are asked to remove it. Yes, I did chat with the SS at the first event I worked and repeated what he told me. Also, I talked with a group of three of them before the doors opened to the latest one too. The echoed what the first guy I spoke with said. But hey, if bow and others want to claim otherwise - they are free to ignore the truth.
The Bush/Cheney rallies I worked at (6 total) were open to those who properly gained tickets(free and no "oath" to sign) and presented themselves in a respectful manner. Those who wished to bring attention to themselves instead of being respectful were in some cases removed or not allowed entrance. These few occasions were brought on by the person in question - not the SS, the police, or President Bush.
Yes - I was on "goon patrol" for most of the events I worked. It was fun and we had very few issues. Infact - despite the claims and ASSumptions of some of the RBH crowd - we did allow people into the event who clearly weren't Bush supporters. I had the fortune of finding one guy with a kerry button on the inside of his hat(you could see it through the mesh). I simply asked him to remove the pin if he wished to attend this private event. He complied with my request and he entered. Damn - I guess that makes me Hitler for asking him to remove a pin.:roll:

Again for the logic impaired:
If you wish to attend a private event you shall be respectful of your host. This includes making yourself the center of attention - you personally are not the reason the event was being held. If you choose to disrespect your hosts - you can and will be asked to leave. If you are respectful you will have a great experience

And since I'm on the subject...
The last event was one of the best. It was Monday the day before the election. It was about 50 deg outside and it was raining all morning. I was outside for 5+ hours before the event working the line to get into the event. I was soaked!!! We didn't have one issue with morons that event -which was nice and I spent the majority of my time escorting those in wheelchairs and those with infant children to the front of the line so they could get out of the rain and cold quicker. It was by far the "worst" weather event but none of us seemed to mind too much -we were there for a reason and did what we could to make it as enjoyable to those attending as we could-desite the weather.
BTW - I got to meet and shake hands with Olympic gold medalist Cael Sanderson while escorting him past the security line. I also got the privilege to do the same for Senator Chuck Grassley.

Volunteering this election cycle was one of the best experiences of my life. I got to meet plenty of "powerful" and influential people and also thousands upon thousands of fellow citizens. I suggest others take the time to get involved in the system - it's where the "real" work gets done.

CsG

Do you get off on calling fellow americans "morons"? Cause I think you do.

 

[jtusa]

Originally posted by: gutharius

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Do you enjoy being a liar? Thought so.

What didn't happen was the SS being pawns of Bush. You morons need to get that straight. They act when things need attending to - ie when people cause a disturbance and/or security threat. They don't care if you have a button on - or have a "I hate Bush" t-shirt on, but will become involved if you create a scene if you are asked to remove it. Yes, I did chat with the SS at the first event I worked and repeated what he told me. Also, I talked with a group of three of them before the doors opened to the latest one too. The echoed what the first guy I spoke with said. But hey, if bow and others want to claim otherwise - they are free to ignore the truth.
The Bush/Cheney rallies I worked at (6 total) were open to those who properly gained tickets(free and no "oath" to sign) and presented themselves in a respectful manner. Those who wished to bring attention to themselves instead of being respectful were in some cases removed or not allowed entrance. These few occasions were brought on by the person in question - not the SS, the police, or President Bush.
Yes - I was on "goon patrol" for most of the events I worked. It was fun and we had very few issues. Infact - despite the claims and ASSumptions of some of the RBH crowd - we did allow people into the event who clearly weren't Bush supporters. I had the fortune of finding one guy with a kerry button on the inside of his hat(you could see it through the mesh). I simply asked him to remove the pin if he wished to attend this private event. He complied with my request and he entered. Damn - I guess that makes me Hitler for asking him to remove a pin.:roll:

Again for the logic impaired:
If you wish to attend a private event you shall be respectful of your host. This includes making yourself the center of attention - you personally are not the reason the event was being held. If you choose to disrespect your hosts - you can and will be asked to leave. If you are respectful you will have a great experience

And since I'm on the subject...
The last event was one of the best. It was Monday the day before the election. It was about 50 deg outside and it was raining all morning. I was outside for 5+ hours before the event working the line to get into the event. I was soaked!!! We didn't have one issue with morons that event -which was nice and I spent the majority of my time escorting those in wheelchairs and those with infant children to the front of the line so they could get out of the rain and cold quicker. It was by far the "worst" weather event but none of us seemed to mind too much -we were there for a reason and did what we could to make it as enjoyable to those attending as we could-desite the weather.
BTW - I got to meet and shake hands with Olympic gold medalist Cael Sanderson while escorting him past the security line. I also got the privilege to do the same for Senator Chuck Grassley.

Volunteering this election cycle was one of the best experiences of my life. I got to meet plenty of "powerful" and influential people and also thousands upon thousands of fellow citizens. I suggest others take the time to get involved in the system - it's where the "real" work gets done.

CsG

Do you get off on calling fellow americans "morons"? Cause I think you do.

Shutup troll.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: gutharius
Do you get off on calling fellow americans "morons"? Cause I think you do.

No, but I will call those who behave like morons - morons. Would you prefer I call them asshats?

CsG

 

[AntiEverything]

Originally posted by: gutharius

Do you get off on calling fellow americans "morons"? Cause I think you do.

LMAO, that would make him a prime candidate for becoming a Democrat. Or don't you read any posts by "liberals" around here.

"Damn those moron rednecks"

"Everyone who votes for bush is a moron"

But thanks for playing. Perhaps if "liberals" weren't such hypocrites, Bush would be on his way out. As it is, moderates like myself saw the Democrats for the spiteful, hate filled hypocrites that they truly are.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: randym431
But you're not answering my question. Which leads me to believe you just ignored these happenings at Bush rallys. How much are you willing to ignore? How much were the Germans willing to ignore?

They aren't going to answer your question. There was a long thread about this before, with several examples, but I don't think any of the Bush supporters ever really addressed the issues. Mostly Cad just threw out denial after denial explaining how they never really happened. This was apparently based on the fact that Cad got to talk to a Secret Service agent once while he (Cad) was suppressing "goons" at one of their masses. He was actually quite proud of being on the "goon squad".

But kudos for trying.

Do you enjoy being a liar? Thought so.

What didn't happen was the SS being pawns of Bush. You morons need to get that straight. They act when things need attending to - ie when people cause a disturbance and/or security threat. They don't care if you have a button on - or have a "I hate Bush" t-shirt on, but will become involved if you create a scene if you are asked to remove it. Yes, I did chat with the SS at the first event I worked and repeated what he told me. Also, I talked with a group of three of them before the doors opened to the latest one too. The echoed what the first guy I spoke with said. But hey, if bow and others want to claim otherwise - they are free to ignore the truth.
The Bush/Cheney rallies I worked at (6 total) were open to those who properly gained tickets(free and no "oath" to sign) and presented themselves in a respectful manner. Those who wished to bring attention to themselves instead of being respectful were in some cases removed or not allowed entrance. These few occasions were brought on by the person in question - not the SS, the police, or President Bush.
Yes - I was on "goon patrol" for most of the events I worked. It was fun and we had very few issues. Infact - despite the claims and ASSumptions of some of the RBH crowd - we did allow people into the event who clearly weren't Bush supporters. I had the fortune of finding one guy with a kerry button on the inside of his hat(you could see it through the mesh). I simply asked him to remove the pin if he wished to attend this private event. He complied with my request and he entered. Damn - I guess that makes me Hitler for asking him to remove a pin.:roll:

Again for the logic impaired:
If you wish to attend a private event you shall be respectful of your host. This includes making yourself the center of attention - you personally are not the reason the event was being held. If you choose to disrespect your hosts - you can and will be asked to leave. If you are respectful you will have a great experience

And since I'm on the subject...
The last event was one of the best. It was Monday the day before the election. It was about 50 deg outside and it was raining all morning. I was outside for 5+ hours before the event working the line to get into the event. I was soaked!!! We didn't have one issue with morons that event -which was nice and I spent the majority of my time escorting those in wheelchairs and those with infant children to the front of the line so they could get out of the rain and cold quicker. It was by far the "worst" weather event but none of us seemed to mind too much -we were there for a reason and did what we could to make it as enjoyable to those attending as we could-desite the weather.
BTW - I got to meet and shake hands with Olympic gold medalist Cael Sanderson while escorting him past the security line. I also got the privilege to do the same for Senator Chuck Grassley.

Volunteering this election cycle was one of the best experiences of my life. I got to meet plenty of "powerful" and influential people and also thousands upon thousands of fellow citizens. I suggest others take the time to get involved in the system - it's where the "real" work gets done.

CsG

ROFL. Hit a nerve, did I? Do you feel better now? There's nothing like a self-righteous rant to get the ol' nostrils flaring in the morning.

I'm not going to rehash the thread. You work a handful of events in Iowa and suddenly you have delusions of omniscience. You have no first-hand knowledge of any of the reported incidents, all over the country, yet you stomp around calling those who do liars. Why? Because they dare contradict your idyllic view of the Bush campaign machine. Suffice it to say you've lost it.

 

[slyedog]

Originally posted by: randym431
But you're not answering my question. Which leads me to believe you just ignored these happenings at Bush rallys. How much are you willing to ignore? How much were the Germans willing to ignore
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

instead of worrying abt why we won, you had better start figuring out how you can win in 08.

 

[wjgollatz]

Originally posted by: randym431
My big problem with Bush is something I'd think most Republicans would agree with. And I could NEVER vote for a guy like GW because of it. One problem were his rallys. People were actually arrested and thrown out just because they wore some type of clothing or hinted anything less than 100% support for Bush. Even that lady that ask "why is my son dead", was taken away.

Any of these actions that have taken place at rally are justified in my opinion. And if Kerry's rallies did the same thing - they would have been equally justified. The organizer of the event sets their rules. They can do what they want. Attendees are usually issues tickets for these events, while free to the public, you still have to follow the rules. If I go to a public park for a free concert and accost the band members - I should be thrown out. Before entering the events, offending attenddess were told to change their clothing, and that is mostly for their own protection - and that issue goes both ways. Protestwarrior.com members coutner-protested the United for Peace and Justice hate march in NYC during the RNC convention, and one the members even got close to the marchers - they were attacked, despeite all the peaceful activities of the Protestwarrior.com members, the police would not allow the two groups to intermingle after the first few attacks by the "peaceful protesters."

That lady that you mentioned - I bet you are thinking of the woman that was harrassing Laura Bush. Guess what. She also made threats on the President's life once before, specifically stating how she would like to kill the president (not in private, but in a news interview about her son). There are security precautions for a reason - and removing her - was a good call. And it was only learned later that she was the woman who threatened the President's life.

 

[vanln]

Originally posted by: randym431
My big problem with Bush is something I'd think most Republicans would agree with. And I could NEVER vote for a guy like GW because of it. One problem were his rallys. People were actually arrested and thrown out just because they wore some type of clothing or hinted anything less than 100% support for Bush. Even that lady that ask "why is my son dead", was taken away. Do you Republicans really find no problem with this??? Doesnt free speech mean anything anymore to Republicans? Kerry had two large rallys I went to here. One, anyone could come simply by calling or printing out generic tickets to the event from the Dem website. The last rally Kerry had was totally open. No tickets, no questions. At both Kerry rallys, I noticed many cars in the lot with Bush/Cheney bumper stickers. So I know Bush supporters were there watching Kerry. Yet, rally after rally Bush threw, seemed to have people signing loyality oths and being removed or arrested for not. Doesnt this remind you of a time back in Germany when "you know who" was in power? Really, how do you vote for someone like Bush? Can you explain it?
When Clinton had a rally here, back in 92, there were many Republicans in the back waving waffels in the air and chanting "waffel waffel waffel". Yet Clinton did not have them arrested. He just brushed it off. If Clinton had ask they be arrested and taken away that day, I would have never been able to support Clinton. Where's your outrage?

I give you some data.
Base on more than 50 women (friend of my wife). They are married, income $50K or more, Asian, white, Latino.
1- They said John Kerry is ugly. That is true, his long face make them dislike him. The first time he appears in public. This guy didn't dress up nice, he look like a senator more than a president candidate. After the swift boat ad come out, John Kerry look more hippie with his long hair.
2- They don't like John Kerry wife. They said she is a bitch with big bag of money. She always looks like she got drunk. Some of them said she look cheap when she talk to public. I remember the lady said: Kerry wife used her hand to clean her nose during a campaign. She must be sick (running noise) that days.
3-They disagree with John Kerry when John Kerry talks about Cheney daughter. They keep telling me by using Cheney wife?s word: He is not a good man.
4- Most of them just refinance their house with low rate. They have a lot of money from refinance. And they are shopping to buy a second house. They afraid interest rate will go up with John Kerry adm
5- They follow their husband opinion. Most of their men want to be a person who plays chess like Bush. They think to be a checker is a loser. Where they get this ideal, who know it could be from Dick Morris