how come we don't have a F1 team?

[_Rick_]

If you start from scratch, the first few years are probably more expensive, if you want to compete in the mid field.
Because you have to recruit some guys away from other teams, otherwise you'll be stuck with a bunch of rookies, and going nowhere for at least two or three seasons.

A good reference point I think is Mercedes, where they're slowly getting to the point of being half-way in contention, and supposedly that costs 280 Million Euros a year, with 800 employees (that might be including AMG Brixworth, though)

 

[The Boston Dangler]

Is that what it costs to field a contending team?!? Wow. I knew it costs a ton of cash, but had no idea it cost THAT much.

that is a mid-recession number - it used to be more before 2010. although the global economy took the hit in 2008, the money had already been paid out to keep them spending for a couple years.

for what it's worth, the big football, baseball and soccer teams spend almost as much, not including stadiums.

 

[KentState]

The big three from the US are not the right manufacturers to be funding a program. Two of them are under constant scrutiny for being on life support with tax dollars. Not sure if Ford or Chevy would really see any advantage to spending hundreds of million a year. It's much easier for luxury/high-end makers which we really don't have.

 

[Topweasel]

that is a mid-recession number - it used to be more before 2010. although the global economy took the hit in 2008, the money had already been paid out to keep them spending for a couple years.

for what it's worth, the big football, baseball and soccer teams spend almost as much, not including stadiums.

Ferrari and McLaren used to not bat an eye at 400-500 Million back in the day. Ferrari still self funds itself at a rate much higher then most teams full sponsorship value, with sponsorship money going to fill in the gaps and in the case of Marboro and Santander going to driver salary. Same for Redbull that runs both 300 million and 120 million dollar team.

 

[Atty]

that is a mid-recession number - it used to be more before 2010. although the global economy took the hit in 2008, the money had already been paid out to keep them spending for a couple years.

for what it's worth, the big football, baseball and soccer teams spend almost as much, not including stadiums.

It is crazy to think this is well after they limited technical design to avoid using super rare materials that were driving up costs.

I wish we could get more traction for Formula 1 in the USA. Mexico is getting a race now and they have a driver, I'm sure we can get behind it. Though, when you consider VW doesn't want to even take part in F1 and they are a much more profitable and larger automaker than anything we have in the US, I can't ever see any of them taking part.

Maybe Hennessy or Saleen? Get a few of our luxury brand companies (Apple, for instance) to sponsor the team.

 

[Vdubchaos]

That's to bad. F1 is the only street type race i enjoy. the speed and skill are amazing.

80s and prior F1 was great

Now, it's simply a money race. Which team has more money to push technology forward.

Sure there is skill involved but it just doesn't appeal to me anymore.

Bring back 1200hp monsters with no assists in every aspect of the car.....give them back clutch....and I might watch it again.

F1 past 10-20 years has been lame to me....it's a money race

(mind you they are still amazing athletes/drivers out there, it ain't easy).

 

[Atty]

80s and prior F1 was great

Now, it's simply a money race. Which team has more money to push technology forward.

Sure there is skill involved but it just doesn't appeal to me anymore.

Bring back 1200hp monsters with no assists in every aspect of the car.....give them back clutch....and I might watch it again.

F1 past 10-20 years has been lame to me....it's a money race

(mind you they are still amazing athletes/drivers out there, it ain't easy).

Maybe for the constructors but driver on driver its still a skill race. The most flattering car can be the most useless tool when someone makes an error or Grosjean gets in the way. Thats why its still enjoyable to me.

 

[_Rick_]

Maybe for the constructors but driver on driver its still a skill race. The most flattering car can be the most useless tool when someone makes an error or Grosjean gets in the way. Thats why its still enjoyable to me.

That's what's really spooky about Kimi, Seb and Fernando.

They make close to zero mistakes. While still pushing the car hard.
Especially when directly compared to their team mates.
JB is also almost on that level, but I seldom get that same feeling of "he's pushing the car" from him. A bit like Rosberg.

Hamilton, Massa and Grosjean visibly can't race to the same standard. Though this season has certainly shown Hamilton and Grosjean slightly on the up.
Hülkenberg impresses, when he gets the chance to impress.

So yeah, it's a sport that has some very visible aspects, and some very secret ones. But that's the way it is in any technical formula.

The one thing that's the most amazing about current day F1 is actually the way the cars last. 20 years ago, the number of technical retirements were so much higher. I think from an engineering process standpoint, this kind of high-reliability fast-paced prototyping engineering is one of the things that might actually be an interesting "innovation" or at least experiment for manufacturers.

 

[Atty]

That's what's really spooky about Kimi, Seb and Fernando.

They make close to zero mistakes. While still pushing the car hard.
Especially when directly compared to their team mates.
JB is also almost on that level, but I seldom get that same feeling of "he's pushing the car" from him. A bit like Rosberg.

Hamilton, Massa and Grosjean visibly can't race to the same standard. Though this season has certainly shown Hamilton and Grosjean slightly on the up.
Hülkenberg impresses, when he gets the chance to impress.

From interviews about what it takes to be a skilled driver with Seb, its brains that make the difference. It isn't that they think or react faster, there is a limit to human reflexes. Seb explained it that while he is racing he finds those extra tenths and maintains consistency by always focusing on every variable imaginable. Tyre temps, brake temps, evolving levels of traction, weather patterns (head winds, tail winds, cross winds, humidity, etc) and always re-adjusting to each of those things every lap.

When I think of great drivers right now, like those three, I imagine that every lap is done just a bit differently to achieve the same lap times. Minute adjustments that they make that gives them consistency. These are things that apparently not every driver does or accounts for. I think that is why they are always consistent where as their team mates and other drivers can get great laps sometimes but struggle to do it consistently.

 

[punjabiplaya]

From interviews about what it takes to be a skilled driver with Seb, its brains that make the difference. It isn't that they think or react faster, there is a limit to human reflexes. Seb explained it that while he is racing he finds those extra tenths and maintains consistency by always focusing on every variable imaginable. Tyre temps, brake temps, evolving levels of traction, weather patterns (head winds, tail winds, cross winds, humidity, etc) and always re-adjusting to each of those things every lap.

When I think of great drivers right now, like those three, I imagine that every lap is done just a bit differently to achieve the same lap times. Minute adjustments that they make that gives them consistency. These are things that apparently not every driver does or accounts for. I think that is why they are always consistent where as their team mates and other drivers can get great laps sometimes but struggle to do it consistently.

That's what they said on Top Gear. Seb was the only one asking about tire pressures and what not on the Suzuki.

 

[PlasmaBomb]

the ford-owned jag team started life as stewart (jackie stewart), which had shown excellent potential until ford drove them into the ground. the remnants of jag are now torro rosso (red bull junior team). the fact that red bull is allowed to own 2 teams speaks to the poor health of f1.

to run 1 f1 team (2 cars) contending for wins costs more than the entire starting grid of the indy 500 (33 cars). $250-300 million/yr doesn't guarantee a win, but enables it.

even major players (honda, toyota bmw) that had money to burn bailed out when they got sick of getting their asses kicked. f1 is incredibly specialized, and very little translates to road cars, so the incentive of "forging road cars from the crucible of motorsport" no longer applies.

The Jaguar F1 team went on to become Red Bull... which shows how well Ford managed the team.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaguar_Racing