How come there are no TV capture cards w/ HDMI input or any digital input?

[Phokus]

I've been looking for a TV capture card w/ HDMI input but they don't seem to exist, why is that?

 

[themisfit610]

HDMI input would be mostly useless for the average consumer, since most devices output an HDCP signal. This copy protection doesn't allow you to capture the stream.

There are plenty of HDTV tuners that connect to your PC and can capture transport streams with no problem. Capturing HDMI output of (for example) a satellite / cable box is pretty much impossible.

If you're trying to capture from your camcorder, or other self generated content, you can get an Intensity card from blackmagic design:
http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/

It's surprisingly cheap for such a significant piece of hardware. Be aware that HDMI usually carries a very high data rate - on the order of 1500mbit for 1080p24. This means you will need (at the very least) 3x SATA drives in RAID 0 to have enough IO bandwidth to avoid dropped frames - assuming you capture uncompressed. Capturing into a lossless codec on the fly would likely be preferable, but may be too CPU intensive.

I'm not sure if the blackmagic drivers will talk to a WDM / DirectShow capture program like VirtualDub / VirtualVCR etc... It's designed to work with Avid or Premiere, so not sure about all that business. I've used these cards on Mac OS X with Final Cut Pro, and they work fine.

~MiSfit

 

[idiotekniQues]

coming soon, not hdmi but pretty good nonetheless, im gonna pick one up

http://www.businesswire.com/po...0110006038&newsLang=en

 

[Phokus]

Thanks for the info guys!

 

[themisfit610]

Interesting. If Hauppage can bring a decent quality component capture card at a reasonable price, that could be a nice piece of hardware to own.

Note that capturing component video is significantly more difficult than capturing an HDMI stream. Analog to digital conversion of high definition is not something that's easily done well and inexpensively at the same time. Blackmagic design's Analog HD card is $1000, whereas the HDMI only card is $200. That says a lot right there..,

I'm definitely interested in playing with this Hauppage card when it comes out. 480p60 / 720p60 would be a nice thing for console gamers to have - so we can record pwnage in its pure un-interlaced glory

~MiSfit

 

[idiotekniQues]

i found more info on this device:

"There's more news from the CeBIT show that just ended this past weekend in Germany regarding the Hauppauge HD-PVR - a device that will let us record digital television straight from any component video output like a cable box, satellite box or even that HD mentioned first in this post and then again in this one.

Why is this device so exciting? Any analog video out of your typical HD set-top box has been termed the "Analog Hole". This term was coined by those in the industry as one way people could get HD content isn't protected from being copied or moved in any way. The HDMI digital connection that are quickly becoming the standard do protect the content so component out was the only loophole.

Thus far, it has been nearly impossible to record encrypted digital channels (think ESPN HD or HBO etc) to your Home Theater PC unless you have purchased a pre-configured, Microsoft Vista Media Center computer that has CableCard tuner/s pre-installed. This was expensive and inflexible - especially if you prefer other HTPC programs such as SageTV, Beyond TV, GBPVR, Media Portal, Meedios or MythTV. With this device, if it works as expected we'll be able to plug it into the outgoing component outputs of any HD device such as a cable box then tune and record that HD content.

KNOWN FACTS ON THE HD-PVR:

* The official name isn't known yet, but it's called the HD PVR at the trade shows - could change at release date.
* Release date is projected to be April or May (pushed back from the original March 31 date)
* Accepts component video in "up to 1080p"
* Projected Price is $249 in the U.S. and 199 euros in Europe
* Encodes your component video to H.264 transport streams at data rates between 1Mbit - 13.5Mbit/s using it's hardware encoding (all done by the device - not your PC.)
* The hardware is finished and possibly already in the hands of several HTPC software makers for testing with their software programs. The case was still being finished at last report.
* Based on a chip from a company called Ambarella. This same chip is used in the Gefen HD PVR, the coming-soon Slingbox Pro HD and a few other devices yet to be released. The chip is an all-in-one chip with a digitizer and H.264 encoder - a similar chip from the same chip manufacturer is used in many popular HD camcorders.
* Hauppauge will reportedly have Windows and Linux drivers for the device although no confirmation on when the Linux drivers will be available.
* The device will have digital audio inputs
* Will include an IR blaster with code library for controlling cable and satellite boxes.
* Included software reportedly will be Total Media Extreme, and a media converter from Arcsoft.
* Will connect to your PC via USB2 port. Will be in the form of a USB stick of some sort.



Positives points on the Hauppauge Device:

* Price is reasonable
* Small physical footprint (although I haven't seen a photo of the device to be certain)
* Should work on any HD device with component output
* Hauppauge will reportedly have Windows and Linux drivers for the device.
* All digital channels on any HTPC software that supports the device - no cablecard mess to deal with
* Make backup copies of content from Blue-ray players or for those of you poor souls with the already extinct HD-DVD players.

Possible negative points:

* It hasn't been released yet so I can't buy it
* If you're using it to view and record from a cable box or satellite box, you'll still have to deal with an IR blaster to change the channels. This creates a few usability issues, but not a show stopper.
* I'm wondering what the minimum hardware requirements will be. It looks like the device will do the heavy-lifting, but I wonder if it will put an extra load on the recording PC?

Here's what Pocket-lint had to say about the device after the CeBit Show this weekend:

"The new Hauppauge HD-PVR is a plug-in USB stick with a built-in H.264 HD encoder to view and record HD video on a PC. The package also includes software to create HD disks for playback on a Blu-ray player. The new HD-PVR stick can encode 720p and 1080i HD sources at up to 13.5 Mbps on the fly to the PC's hard disk.
Available at the end of March for 199 euros, the HD-PVR stick is also supplied with Arcsoft PC authoring software that can burn video HD DVDs for playback in Blu-ray players."

I'm intrigued by the fact they call it a "USB stick" as it sounds like the device will be quite small. It also mentions that the package will include software to create HD disks for Blu-ray player playback - a function I hadn't even thought of before. Included software reportedly will be Total Media Extreme, and a media converter from Arcsoft.

While I've heard rumors the device won't be available until April or May in the States, the article by Pocket-lint says their saying it will be ready in March 2008 in Germany so I'll be watching this one closely and report back to you as soon as I hear more. If anyone gets their hands on a photo of the device, be sure to let me know.

SAMPLE VIDEO OUTPUT FILE

For the more technical in the bunch, there's a sample file supposedly outputted from the device. Download and check out the sample yourself here. A Snapstream user "cat6man" found this information (can't link as it's on a closed beta forum) about the sample video file:

"Apart from it containing .AAC audio (and not .AC3 audio), it does not seem unusual. The "interlaced" AVC video is on PID: 0x1011 and the AAC audio is on PID: 0x1100 (which is .M2TS PID compliant).
I'm able to play the sample file in software using FFdshow's filters with MediaPlayer Classic. VLC player (v0.8.6d) crashes because it's AVC decoder does not support MBAFF or PAFF interlaced sources."



OTHER COMPONENT VIDEO RECORDING DEVICES ON THE HORIZON?

Dave Zatz got his hands on a somewhat similar device, the Gefen HD PVR. It's already available, costs $1000 and is different in that it is a self-contained PVR that records only to its own hard drive. You can however save to a USB-connected drive I believe. EDIT: Zatz says there is no USB or network ports on the device so that's not possible on the Gefen. The Gefen device also does h.264 hardware encoding and captures off of Component and HDMI (HDCP Compatible). For HTPC users like me the Gefen device isn't all that useful since you'd need to copy any recordings off of the device onto USB, move them to your HTPC machine, and then import them, but it's at least similar hardware as it uses a similar chip (Another similar chip (TI chip?) is used on the upcoming Slingbox Pro HD.) Looks like we'll might see more of this type of thing to come.

There's at least one other device I've been hearing about that does component video recording and is being designed for HTPC's. I'll report more on that once I've confirmed more on it.

For me, I'll be waiting for the Hauppauge device as it might just be that "holy grail" of HTPC devices... "

http://brentevans.blogspot.com...r-component-video.html

 

[themisfit610]

Interesting. I wonder how this device will cope with macrovision. I assume it's applied to component outputs still.

I also wonder about the quality of its H.264 encoder chip. What we're realistically looking at (to record digital broadcasts with this device) - is MPEG-2 delivered to your house at a stupidly low bitrate (thanks cable providers), full of blocks, encoder induced noise, and poorly represented film grain. This is decoded, converted to analog, and then spat out to our lovely little device. Hopefully it can identify and lock on to the content type (480i/p, 720p, 1080i/p), and encode in the apropriate mode. Then, it runs a real-time hardware based H.264 encode, that spits out a max of 13.5mbit, which is plenty for 720p, and honestly a little tight for 1080p, especially considering hardware encoders typically produce lower quality at any given bitrate than a good software encoder.

I mean, it's the only way to do analog... I just wish the damn cable / satellite companies had more bandwidth so they could deliver MPEG-2 to us at higher bit rates, or switch to broadcasting (well encoded, which is probably too much to ask) H.264. For reference, your average cable HD program has a bitrate somewhere near that of a standard DVD. Yep. If you're lucky 10 or 15 megabits, but it's often under 10. That's why most people aren't impressed by HD until they see BluRay / HD-DVD. 25-40mbit makes a _lot_ of difference.

Ok, video nerd ranting done. This box looks cool, especially for me to capture the output of my soon-to-materialize playstation 3 and gran turismo 5 It would be really nice if this hardware box included and encoding profile that complies with AVC-HD, since that's natively supported by a lot of video editing apps these days. Icing on the cake


~MiSfit