how come car manufacturers dont make miata sized cars with v8's that are affordeable?

[IcePickFreak]

I always liked this conversion...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLEYdsQGcPI

 

[HAL9000]

Because when you have an MX-5 / Elise sized car you don't need a V8 to power them...

 

[jlee]

Really? A recipe for disaster? I had a 350z and now a 370z with more power and although the car is quite quick... I hardly feel out of control. Even if I plant the gas around a corner, I still feel like I can control the car just fine. Anyone can crash a car into a tree, be it a 2500 pound 400 hp car, or a freaking ford focus, but that doesn't mean the car is unsafe, it just means the driver sucks.

Your Z doesn't have that much power if you can put your foot to the floor mid-corner without something bad happening.

 

[brainhulk]

Your Z doesn't have that much power if you can put your foot to the floor mid-corner without something bad happening.

maybe he has 345 tires in the rear and a monster wing?

 

[Demo24]

it also throws off the weight balance of the vehicle since v8's are almost always heavier. Heavy front end + light rear = snap oversteer in hard corners.

The question then becomes why when you can make good power with turbo 4s or small (and may turbod ) 6s, without the penalties that arise from trying to fit a v8 in such a small car whilst maintaining regulations.

 

[SandEagle]

Slk 63 amg

 

[jlee]

it also throws off the weight balance of the vehicle since v8's are almost always heavier. Heavy front end + light rear = snap oversteer in hard corners.

The question then becomes why when you can make good power with turbo 4s or small (and may turbod ) 6s, without the penalties that arise from trying to fit a v8 in such a small car whilst maintaining regulations.

http://flyinmiata.com/V8/

Overall, the car gains less than 200 lbs with 1/3 of that on the rear wheels. In other words, the car does not become a nose-heavy beast. To put things in perspective, one of our SuperFour Challenge turbo Miatas came in at almost exactly the same weight and distribution. From the outside, the car looks completely stock. The ground clearance is unchanged and nothing needs to be altered on the body. As long as the engine is off, it's a great sleeper. But once you fire it up, there's no mistaking what's underhood.

Does it handle? Well, the first time we took one autocrossing, we set FTD with it - by a margin of nearly 4 seconds. We've destroyed our own lap records around our local track, outrunning purpose-built race Miatas with a street-oriented V8 Miata. Yeah, it handles.

 

[JCH13]

I better stop my project =(

Lulz. Your Mk1.5 will be over-steer-tastic, but you know that it'll act that way and presumbaly know enough to not get into too much trouble.

Really? A recipe for disaster? I had a 350z and now a 370z with more power and although the car is quite quick... I hardly feel out of control. Even if I plant the gas around a corner, I still feel like I can control the car just fine. Anyone can crash a car into a tree, be it a 2500 pound 400 hp car, or a freaking ford focus, but that doesn't mean the car is unsafe, it just means the driver sucks.

I can't disagree that the driver has a lot to do with it. As they say: 'imagine how bad the average driver is, and realize that half of all drivers are worse than that.'

Certain cars attract certain types of drivers. An inexpensive high-performance car will inevitably attract the young, inexperienced, irresponsible, street-racer crowd that isn't exactly known for safe driving habits or good life choices. The 350Z isn't a terribly stable vehicle at the limit from what I understand, especially before it switched to a staggered tire setup. The statistics speak for themselves, I personally think it's equal parts unstable vehicle dynamics and aggressive drivers.

Some sources:

http://www.insurancerate.com/expensive-cars-to-insure-nissan-350z.php

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/06/09/nissan-350z-has-highest-driver-death-rate-report/

For the deadliest, Nissan’s 350Z was way ahead of the pack, with a driver death rate at 143 per million registered vehicle years, ahead of the Nissan Titan pickup truck at 126.

Two Chevrolet small-car models followed, the Aveo and the Cobalt at 119 and 117, respectively.

There are no other sports cars in the top 4, if it was purely a drivers issue I think we'd see S2ks, M3s, Mustangs, etc in that category.

 

[JCH13]

it also throws off the weight balance of the vehicle since v8's are almost always heavier. Heavy front end + light rear = snap oversteer in hard corners.

The question then becomes why when you can make good power with turbo 4s or small (and may turbod ) 6s, without the penalties that arise from trying to fit a v8 in such a small car whilst maintaining regulations.

I disagree. Cars with reputations for snap-oversteer (Mk2 MR2, Porsche 911, Honda S2k, to pick a few) are generally rear-weight biased. They also have very low rotational inertia, which lets them turn faster and also spin faster.

 

[thomsbrain]

I think it simply comes down to the companies that have V8's that could work (GM,... um... GM) having zero interest in the small sports-car market niche. The Solstice/Sky were half-assed stopgaps to try to catch a small percentage of a market that had nearly disappeared by the time they made it to market. Honda could hardly move the superior S2000 by that point.

You also end up encroaching on the Corvette's new-vehicle market share, and the presence of a lighter, cheaper car with equal/better handling would kill used Corvette resale values. You're talking about a $35K-$40K car at 2800 pounds with 400+ horsepower, a huge engine aftermarket and 50/50 weight distribution... why would anyone want a Corvette?

To sell a car in that market without killing their halo, they could only purposely choose to handicap it, the way Porsche handicaps the Boxster/Cayman. Unfortunately, the GM nameplates are a liability in the small sports car market, whereas the Porsche nameplate is an asset. So Porsche sells Boxsters like crazy while GM sold roughly 10 Solstices.

The Miata and S2000 LSx conversions show the concept is perfectly sound. The LSx is light and packagable, reliable, and gets good mileage. It's just not in GM's best interest to build the right small-car chassis for the engine.

 

[Bignate603]

Because when you have an MX-5 / Elise sized car you don't need a V8 to power them...

Nobody NEEDS that much power, but we still WANT that much power.

 

[HAL9000]

Nobody NEEDS that much power, but we still WANT that much power.

It would just ruin the centre of gravity... Spoiling the handling.

 

[AdamK47]

maybe he has 345 tires in the rear and a monster wing?

Hideous wing.

 

[Bignate603]

It would just ruin the centre of gravity... Spoiling the handling.

If it was properly designed and the car was laid out with that weight in mind it would not be an issue. Anyways, you'd be surprised how light some of the modern V8s are.

 

[MotF Bane]

It would just ruin the centre of gravity... Spoiling the handling.

I believe the center of gravity on a V8 Miata would actually be lower than a stock Miata. It does add 140 lbs on the front axle, about 60 lbs on the rear axle, but some new suspension parts take care of that quite nicely - usually better than stock configuration.

 

[MotF Bane]

Your Z doesn't have that much power if you can put your foot to the floor mid-corner without something bad happening.

Or Nissan traction control is making its presence known.

 

[Pariah]

It would just ruin the centre of gravity... Spoiling the handling.

I whole heartedly disagree. And why wuss out by using only one V8?
If you're going to do something, go all the way, and use two V8's.

I don't know what you're talking about. It's mid-engined, it should handle like a go-kart on rails.

http://jalopnik.com/5884363/this-is-what-a-mazda-miata-with-dual-v8s-looks-like

 

[JCH13]

I whole heartedly disagree. And why wuss out by using only one V8?
If you're going to do something, go all the way, and use two V8's.

I don't know what you're talking about. It's mid-engined, it should handle like a go-kart on rails.

http://jalopnik.com/5884363/this-is-what-a-mazda-miata-with-dual-v8s-looks-like

 

[HarryLui]

Can't believe no one post this one.

 

[manimal]

I disagree. Cars with reputations for snap-oversteer (Mk2 MR2, Porsche 911, Honda S2k, to pick a few) are generally rear-weight biased. They also have very low rotational inertia, which lets them turn faster and also spin faster.

Give this man a beer! Great post.

 

[IcePickFreak]

It would just ruin the centre of gravity... Spoiling the handling.

LS1 Vs F20C weight comparison (trans included) Most of that weight difference is in the trans.

That's really not that much, and from what I've always heard the LS1 mounts lower and further back so it's closer to the cars center of gravity. There's been a couple guys posting on LS1tech over the years that did these swaps and they all said the handling was almost as good as stock, but now with a mountain of torque and several times the HP in the car.

 

[Zivic]

maybe he has 345 tires in the rear and a monster wing?

nothing wrong with that car IMHO...

as far as the Z goes -> jack of all trades, master of none. It is NOT power bias and not relative to "miata size car with a v8" discussion.

for the record, my Z does make that much power

 

[Zivic]

insurance will be 3x your monthly car payment

as an enthusiast I would only buy my toy cars outright. Further more, as a responsible adult, I have haven't had an insurance premium >75/month. The car as we discuss it would probably be in the 30-40k range. not sure why one would see a huge insurance premium unless they have a horrible driving record

 

[thomsbrain]

Can't believe no one post this one.

Haha, great point. I guess there's a good reason that car is such a classic! It would be nice to have one with modern suspension geometry and safety equipment... Actually, I'll buy there's a shop that builds them like that, too.

 

[HarryLui]

Get a replica.

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