How CO2 can damage the environment directly

[Carmen813]

I stumbled across this article from 2004:
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07...l-reach-to-oceans.html

I kept running into an argument that essentially stated "CO2 emissions aren't harmful to the environment" so I decided to look around and see if that was true. Apparently CO2 is turned into carbonic acid in the ocean, which alters PH levels and can cause the death of microorganisms.

The article later states that over many centuries the ocean could handle these emissions (as the waters mix), but in the short term the surface layer of the ocean will probably double it's concentration of CO2. This could lead to the loss of reefs which may have untold affects on things such as erosion from ocean tides (I believe reefs act as a natural barrier) or local water life.

I found another article that mentions a new technology that can convert CO2 emissions into alternative energy sources, such as fuel cells:

http://www.topnews.in/health/n...ssions-fuel-cells-2248

I thought these were both pretty interesting given the debate revolving around Cap and Trade.

 

[Fear No Evil]

Can we sue volcanos?

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Anything is a pollutant when its amount is increased beyond its natural equilibrium levels. That is what, 7th grade biology? It's scary the number of people who will argue against this. It's like saying vitamins or water can't kill you because they are necessary for a body to function.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Can we sue volcanos?

I want to sue the ocean.

 

[blackangst1]

Cool story bro

 

[MovingTarget]

CO2 is essential to life. Just remember that too much of a good thing is bad for you. This is something even elementary school students know.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian
Anything is a pollutant when its amount is increased beyond its natural equilibrium levels. That is what, 7th grade biology? It's scary the number of people who will argue against this. It's like saying vitamins or water can't kill you because they are necessary for a body to function.

Drink too much water you die, too

 

[keird]

Oxygen kills humans, too.

Yeah. Breathing too high a concentration of oxygen for a week can cause lung damage and death. Even at sea level.

 

[Fear No Evil]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian
Anything is a pollutant when its amount is increased beyond its natural equilibrium levels. That is what, 7th grade biology? It's scary the number of people who will argue against this. It's like saying vitamins or water can't kill you because they are necessary for a body to function.

Drink too much water you die, too

Cap and trade for water drinking!

 

[Carmen813]

Somehow I expected a more interesting discussion. Go troll elsewhere.

 

[miniMUNCH]

Um... this is old news and reef erosion is already well in effect. There are already whole reefs that are now dead... i.e. even if we magically sucked half the CO2 of the atmosphere and increased the pH of the ocean in these areas... it's too late, these reefs are aleady fucked.

What is even more alarming than that... we have pouring million of tons of nitrogen into the oceans for tens of years and have really fucke up the nitrogen balance of the ocean. Whole fish populations are dying off in favor of organism populations which like nitrogen... like jelly fish. That is fucking over the food supply for a lot of developing civilizations throughout the world. A lot of the fishing populations are also just flat being over-fished but that is another discussion.

We really don't know where the macro-ecosystem of the ocean is going at this point and we have insufficient understanding to predict what is going to happen. BUT if the ocean algae blooms are adversely and *gasp* die off... we are in big trouble.

 

[dainthomas]

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Can we sue volcanos?

No, but we can make them buy credits from wind farms. That'll fix everything.

 

[misle]

So, following up on the 2004 story: Has there been any evidence or proof of the assertions in the last five years?

 

[cubeless]

the part of the stimulus pacakge that funds another round of research into this hasn't been released yet...

 

[MovingTarget]

Originally posted by: cubeless
the part of the stimulus pacakge that funds another round of research into this hasn't been released yet...

I can't tell if this is sarcastic/facetious because my meter is broken. But yes, if we are to get back on our feet long-term, we as a nation do need to pour more resources into R&D.

 

[Fear No Evil]

Originally posted by: MovingTarget

Originally posted by: cubeless
the part of the stimulus pacakge that funds another round of research into this hasn't been released yet...

I can't tell if this is sarcastic/facetious because my meter is broken. But yes, if we are to get back on our feet long-term, we as a nation do need to pour more resources into R&D.

Why? So the government can tax the hell out of the company that comes up with some great invention?

 

[CycloWizard]

As miniMUNCH said, this is pretty well documented at this point. Acidification of the oceans will not only kill reefs and alter the ecosystem: it will, if it continues unchecked, cause the pH to drop to a point where soluble calcium species will no longer be available to form skeletons. Then the real fun starts.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard
As miniMUNCH said, this is pretty well documented at this point. Acidification of the oceans will not only kill reefs and alter the ecosystem: it will, if it continues unchecked, cause the pH to drop to a point where soluble calcium species will no longer be available to form skeletons. Then the real fun starts.

Hi. I keep a living coral reef in my home so I have intimate and first hand knowledge of their growth. Can you please tell me at what pH that occurs and just how much CO2 it would take for that to happen? Can you also tell me what other ions control this?

If you can, great. If not then STFU. The affects of CO2 on reefs is so freaking overblown it isn't even funny...hint if you knew how corals form you would know why this is true.

How about this - without you googling is lowering or raising pH a good thing for coral from where it is now?

Hell, if you can even describe how corals get their energy I'd be impressed.

 

[WHAMPOM]

Originally posted by: misle
So, following up on the 2004 story: Has there been any evidence or proof of the assertions in the last five years?

Yes, the dead zones in the oceans are about ten times the size they were in 2004. Poison gases produced by anaerobic bacteria and decay in dead ocean zones near coastal areas may soon pose a threat to human life. Spontaneous gas releases are on the increase along the African West coast.

 

[JS80]

The best thing you can do is commit suicide. I mean, imagine, you can help the environment by generating a ZERO carbon footprint.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: JS80
The best thing you can do is commit suicide. I mean, imagine, you can help the environment by generating a ZERO carbon footprint.

Hey look, you said something dumb.

 

[Fear No Evil]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: JS80
The best thing you can do is commit suicide. I mean, imagine, you can help the environment by generating a ZERO carbon footprint.

Hey look, you said something dumb.

Any dumber than saying cap and trade will solve all our global warming problems?

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: JS80
The best thing you can do is commit suicide. I mean, imagine, you can help the environment by generating a ZERO carbon footprint.

Hey look, you said something dumb.

Any dumber than saying cap and trade will solve all our global warming problems?

Yes, suggesting the suicide of people to reduce carbon emissions is much dumber than attacking a method of pollution control that has been effective in the past.

I don't know why I'm responding to you though, you're one of the most worthless posters here.

 

[Fear No Evil]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: JS80
The best thing you can do is commit suicide. I mean, imagine, you can help the environment by generating a ZERO carbon footprint.

Hey look, you said something dumb.

Any dumber than saying cap and trade will solve all our global warming problems?

Yes, suggesting the suicide of people to reduce carbon emissions is much dumber than attacking a method of pollution control that has been effective in the past.

I don't know why I'm responding to you though, you're one of the most worthless posters here.

Thank you. (Sheds a tear). I've worked very hard to obtain that title. I'd like to thank the academy..

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: JS80
The best thing you can do is commit suicide. I mean, imagine, you can help the environment by generating a ZERO carbon footprint.

Hey look, you said something dumb.

Any dumber than saying cap and trade will solve all our global warming problems?

No one ever said that.