How can you tell if your car has a limited slip differential(torsen one specifically)

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kevinthenerd

Platinum Member
Jun 27, 2002
2,908
0
76
Originally posted by: RichUK
Originally posted by: kevinthenerd
Originally posted by: virtualgames0
Originally posted by: Zee
Buddy, looks like he did you a favor

Great.. now I have holier than thou guys driving accords telling me how my car is supposed to handle.

Excuse me... I drive my girlfriend's Miata all the time. I'm probably one of thie biggest car nuts here. (I'm studying mechanical engineering in the hopes of starting my own automotive design and manufacturing company.) If your Miata is oversteering less, it could most definitely be because your LSD is now working properly. I'll also tell you that, since the Miata is the world's best-selling sports car, it's easy to find a lot of people on those forums who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.

Hey Kevin, from what i remember learning the mechanical side of automotives easy IMO. I found the electronics the hard part. I used to be a BMW Technician.

I guess it depends on your perspective. If you find the mechanical side to be easy, you're not doing it right (i.e. fully optimizing designs for minimal weight, maximum longevity, and minimal build costs). Repairing mechanical components is easier than repairing electrical components. Reparing and designing are two different things, though. In the electronics side, there isn't nearly as much emphasis on low mass or tight packaging.
 

tfinch2

Lifer
Feb 3, 2004
22,114
1
0
Originally posted by: F22 Raptor
Wow you guys are seriously deluded with your opinions.

Some of us that have cars that are better than a crappy toyota or a honda (no type R's don't count) like to have a little fun sometimes while driving in a responsible matter. The OP was asking if the mechanic might have taken away one of his options for fun.

And, if the mechanic did do his job then tell him in a polite way, not Hey buddy, a sarcastic responce will only get worse back.

So OP just wait till some real car guys come in and can answer your question, these guys really don't know much.


<<<Drives a 2003 Mustang SVT Cobra and would be seriously pissed if a mechanic changed something that changed its track behavoir.

Miata not included, especially some old tired one.
 

jlee

Lifer
Sep 12, 2001
48,517
223
106
Originally posted by: RichUK
Originally posted by: CadetLee
Originally posted by: RichUK
Also why do people keep saying ?spinning out?. The main purpose of a diff is to compensate for Ackerman?s Angle. LSD's further compensate for too much torque at the rear wheels.

LSDs compensate for a biased distribution of torque, no?

For a better definition, yes.

Why you asking me the question?

Because you provided the previous answer, and I didn't quite agree with it. Who can have too much torque? :p
 

RichUK

Lifer
Feb 14, 2005
10,341
678
126
Originally posted by: kevinthenerd
Originally posted by: RichUK
Originally posted by: kevinthenerd
Originally posted by: virtualgames0
Originally posted by: Zee
Buddy, looks like he did you a favor

Great.. now I have holier than thou guys driving accords telling me how my car is supposed to handle.

Excuse me... I drive my girlfriend's Miata all the time. I'm probably one of thie biggest car nuts here. (I'm studying mechanical engineering in the hopes of starting my own automotive design and manufacturing company.) If your Miata is oversteering less, it could most definitely be because your LSD is now working properly. I'll also tell you that, since the Miata is the world's best-selling sports car, it's easy to find a lot of people on those forums who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.

Hey Kevin, from what i remember learning the mechanical side of automotives easy IMO. I found the electronics the hard part. I used to be a BMW Technician.

I guess it depends on your perspective. If you find the mechanical side to be easy, you're not doing it right (i.e. fully optimizing designs for minimal weight, maximum longevity, and minimal build costs). Repairing mechanical components is easier than repairing electrical components. Reparing and designing are two different things, though. In the electronics side, there isn't nearly as much emphasis on low mass or tight packaging.

It seems that your focus of study is geared towards manufacturing and production. I had to learn the history and the complete in and outs of how mechanical (new and old) components operated. There was obviously quite a bit of science involved to. I had to study at the BMW centre for development here in the UK.

When working on BMW?s I found diagnosing electrical faults a total head fvck (we didn?t really repair electrical components). Lucky we had a Master techy who knew a great deal. He was like a modern day yoda, lol.

Because i changed career and studied I.T (and now work within I.T), some of the stuff i didn?t understand now makes sense.
 

kevinthenerd

Platinum Member
Jun 27, 2002
2,908
0
76
Originally posted by: tfinch2
Originally posted by: F22 Raptor
Wow you guys are seriously deluded with your opinions.

Some of us that have cars that are better than a crappy toyota or a honda (no type R's don't count) like to have a little fun sometimes while driving in a responsible matter. The OP was asking if the mechanic might have taken away one of his options for fun.

And, if the mechanic did do his job then tell him in a polite way, not Hey buddy, a sarcastic responce will only get worse back.

So OP just wait till some real car guys come in and can answer your question, these guys really don't know much.


<<<Drives a 2003 Mustang SVT Cobra and would be seriously pissed if a mechanic changed something that changed its track behavoir.

Miata not included, especially some old tired one.

My girlfriend's Miata has only 70k, and it's a very fun car. I've driven some fast cars, including a Cobra with a built motor that put over 450hp to the wheels, but I must say that HANDLING is what makes a car fun IMHO, and in that respect, few cars beat the bang for the buck of the Miata.

(The two biggest competitors to a used Miata, in my opinion, are the Maxda RX7 and the Toyota MR2. All three are fairly under-powered but handle extremely well.)
 

SVT Cobra

Lifer
Mar 29, 2005
13,264
2
0
Originally posted by: kevinthenerd
Originally posted by: tfinch2
Originally posted by: F22 Raptor
Wow you guys are seriously deluded with your opinions.

Some of us that have cars that are better than a crappy toyota or a honda (no type R's don't count) like to have a little fun sometimes while driving in a responsible matter. The OP was asking if the mechanic might have taken away one of his options for fun.

And, if the mechanic did do his job then tell him in a polite way, not Hey buddy, a sarcastic responce will only get worse back.

So OP just wait till some real car guys come in and can answer your question, these guys really don't know much.


<<<Drives a 2003 Mustang SVT Cobra and would be seriously pissed if a mechanic changed something that changed its track behavoir.

Miata not included, especially some old tired one.

My girlfriend's Miata has only 70k, and it's a very fun car. I've driven some fast cars, including a Cobra with a built motor that put over 450hp to the wheels, but I must say that HANDLING is what makes a car fun IMHO, and in that respect, few cars beat the bang for the buck of the Miata.

(The two biggest competitors to a used Miata, in my opinion, are the Maxda RX7 and the Toyota MR2. All three are fairly under-powered but handle extremely well.)

They better, they are little tin cans on wheels.
 

kevinthenerd

Platinum Member
Jun 27, 2002
2,908
0
76
Originally posted by: RichUK
Originally posted by: kevinthenerd
Originally posted by: RichUK
Originally posted by: kevinthenerd
Originally posted by: virtualgames0
Originally posted by: Zee
Buddy, looks like he did you a favor

Great.. now I have holier than thou guys driving accords telling me how my car is supposed to handle.

Excuse me... I drive my girlfriend's Miata all the time. I'm probably one of thie biggest car nuts here. (I'm studying mechanical engineering in the hopes of starting my own automotive design and manufacturing company.) If your Miata is oversteering less, it could most definitely be because your LSD is now working properly. I'll also tell you that, since the Miata is the world's best-selling sports car, it's easy to find a lot of people on those forums who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.

Hey Kevin, from what i remember learning the mechanical side of automotives easy IMO. I found the electronics the hard part. I used to be a BMW Technician.

I guess it depends on your perspective. If you find the mechanical side to be easy, you're not doing it right (i.e. fully optimizing designs for minimal weight, maximum longevity, and minimal build costs). Repairing mechanical components is easier than repairing electrical components. Reparing and designing are two different things, though. In the electronics side, there isn't nearly as much emphasis on low mass or tight packaging.

It seems that your focus of study is geared towards manufacturing and production. I had to learn the history and the complete in and outs of how mechanical (new and old) components operated. There was obviously quite a bit of science involved to. I had to study at the BMW centre for development here in the UK.

When working on BMW?s I found diagnosing electrical faults a total head fvck (we didn?t really repair electrical components). Lucky we had a Master techy who knew a great deal. He was like a modern day yoda, lol.

Because i changed career and studied I.T (and now work within I.T), some of the stuff i didn?t understand now makes sense.

No, manufacturing and production are aspects I'm having to teach myself. My studies focus on engineering science and on design. I've done professional work in IT as well as research in heat transfer, and I've studied sold-state electronics in my spare time on top of the required introductory electrical coursework. I'm currently working on my own numerical analysis codes in the hopes of making my own computer aided optimization routines based on my own conceptual genetic algorithms. These will integrate finite element analysis into the iteration routine for an automated "engineering in a box" sort of package. Maybe I should just sell the software package when I'm done and retire now instead of using it in industry. :)
 

kevinthenerd

Platinum Member
Jun 27, 2002
2,908
0
76
Originally posted by: F22 Raptor
Originally posted by: kevinthenerd
Originally posted by: tfinch2
Originally posted by: F22 Raptor
Wow you guys are seriously deluded with your opinions.

Some of us that have cars that are better than a crappy toyota or a honda (no type R's don't count) like to have a little fun sometimes while driving in a responsible matter. The OP was asking if the mechanic might have taken away one of his options for fun.

And, if the mechanic did do his job then tell him in a polite way, not Hey buddy, a sarcastic responce will only get worse back.

So OP just wait till some real car guys come in and can answer your question, these guys really don't know much.


<<<Drives a 2003 Mustang SVT Cobra and would be seriously pissed if a mechanic changed something that changed its track behavoir.

Miata not included, especially some old tired one.

My girlfriend's Miata has only 70k, and it's a very fun car. I've driven some fast cars, including a Cobra with a built motor that put over 450hp to the wheels, but I must say that HANDLING is what makes a car fun IMHO, and in that respect, few cars beat the bang for the buck of the Miata.

(The two biggest competitors to a used Miata, in my opinion, are the Maxda RX7 and the Toyota MR2. All three are fairly under-powered but handle extremely well.)

They better, they are little tin cans on wheels.

What do you drive? An Impala? A Monte Carlo?
 

RichUK

Lifer
Feb 14, 2005
10,341
678
126
Anyway, Mazda MX5's aren't they like cars for females and male hair dressers (you know what i mean). I would much prefer an RX7 or the like over an MX5. No offence to the people that own them, but i think they look awful too.
 

SVT Cobra

Lifer
Mar 29, 2005
13,264
2
0
Originally posted by: kevinthenerd
Originally posted by: F22 Raptor
Originally posted by: kevinthenerd
Originally posted by: tfinch2
Originally posted by: F22 Raptor
Wow you guys are seriously deluded with your opinions.

Some of us that have cars that are better than a crappy toyota or a honda (no type R's don't count) like to have a little fun sometimes while driving in a responsible matter. The OP was asking if the mechanic might have taken away one of his options for fun.

And, if the mechanic did do his job then tell him in a polite way, not Hey buddy, a sarcastic responce will only get worse back.

So OP just wait till some real car guys come in and can answer your question, these guys really don't know much.


<<<Drives a 2003 Mustang SVT Cobra and would be seriously pissed if a mechanic changed something that changed its track behavoir.

Miata not included, especially some old tired one.

My girlfriend's Miata has only 70k, and it's a very fun car. I've driven some fast cars, including a Cobra with a built motor that put over 450hp to the wheels, but I must say that HANDLING is what makes a car fun IMHO, and in that respect, few cars beat the bang for the buck of the Miata.

(The two biggest competitors to a used Miata, in my opinion, are the Maxda RX7 and the Toyota MR2. All three are fairly under-powered but handle extremely well.)

They better, they are little tin cans on wheels.

What do you drive? An Impala? A Monte Carlo?

^^^^^
 

RichUK

Lifer
Feb 14, 2005
10,341
678
126
Originally posted by: kevinthenerd
Originally posted by: RichUK
Originally posted by: kevinthenerd
Originally posted by: RichUK
Originally posted by: kevinthenerd
Originally posted by: virtualgames0
Originally posted by: Zee
Buddy, looks like he did you a favor

Great.. now I have holier than thou guys driving accords telling me how my car is supposed to handle.

Excuse me... I drive my girlfriend's Miata all the time. I'm probably one of thie biggest car nuts here. (I'm studying mechanical engineering in the hopes of starting my own automotive design and manufacturing company.) If your Miata is oversteering less, it could most definitely be because your LSD is now working properly. I'll also tell you that, since the Miata is the world's best-selling sports car, it's easy to find a lot of people on those forums who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.

Hey Kevin, from what i remember learning the mechanical side of automotives easy IMO. I found the electronics the hard part. I used to be a BMW Technician.

I guess it depends on your perspective. If you find the mechanical side to be easy, you're not doing it right (i.e. fully optimizing designs for minimal weight, maximum longevity, and minimal build costs). Repairing mechanical components is easier than repairing electrical components. Reparing and designing are two different things, though. In the electronics side, there isn't nearly as much emphasis on low mass or tight packaging.

It seems that your focus of study is geared towards manufacturing and production. I had to learn the history and the complete in and outs of how mechanical (new and old) components operated. There was obviously quite a bit of science involved to. I had to study at the BMW centre for development here in the UK.

When working on BMW?s I found diagnosing electrical faults a total head fvck (we didn?t really repair electrical components). Lucky we had a Master techy who knew a great deal. He was like a modern day yoda, lol.

Because i changed career and studied I.T (and now work within I.T), some of the stuff i didn?t understand now makes sense.

No, manufacturing and production are aspects I'm having to teach myself. My studies focus on engineering science and on design. I've done professional work in IT as well as research in heat transfer, and I've studied sold-state electronics in my spare time on top of the required introductory electrical coursework. I'm currently working on my own numerical analysis codes in the hopes of making my own computer aided optimization routines based on my own conceptual genetic algorithms. These will integrate finite element analysis into the iteration routine for an automated "engineering in a box" sort of package. Maybe I should just sell the software package when I'm done and retire now instead of using it in industry. :)

I don?t have a clue what you just said. But it sounds good though, good luck :thumbsup: :D
 

Viperoni

Lifer
Jan 4, 2000
11,084
1
71
What I would do.

Crank wheel to the right, drop clutch. Try to do a donut (only 1 rotation).
Look at the tire marks left behind. Should be rather straightforward from there.
 

kevinthenerd

Platinum Member
Jun 27, 2002
2,908
0
76
Originally posted by: Viperoni
What I would do.

Crank wheel to the right, drop clutch. Try to do a donut (only 1 rotation).
Look at the tire marks left behind. Should be rather straightforward from there.

Good call.
 

kevinthenerd

Platinum Member
Jun 27, 2002
2,908
0
76
Originally posted by: F22 Raptor
Originally posted by: kevinthenerd
Originally posted by: F22 Raptor
Originally posted by: kevinthenerd
Originally posted by: tfinch2
Originally posted by: F22 Raptor
Wow you guys are seriously deluded with your opinions.

Some of us that have cars that are better than a crappy toyota or a honda (no type R's don't count) like to have a little fun sometimes while driving in a responsible matter. The OP was asking if the mechanic might have taken away one of his options for fun.

And, if the mechanic did do his job then tell him in a polite way, not Hey buddy, a sarcastic responce will only get worse back.

So OP just wait till some real car guys come in and can answer your question, these guys really don't know much.


<<<Drives a 2003 Mustang SVT Cobra and would be seriously pissed if a mechanic changed something that changed its track behavoir.

Miata not included, especially some old tired one.

My girlfriend's Miata has only 70k, and it's a very fun car. I've driven some fast cars, including a Cobra with a built motor that put over 450hp to the wheels, but I must say that HANDLING is what makes a car fun IMHO, and in that respect, few cars beat the bang for the buck of the Miata.

(The two biggest competitors to a used Miata, in my opinion, are the Maxda RX7 and the Toyota MR2. All three are fairly under-powered but handle extremely well.)

They better, they are little tin cans on wheels.

What do you drive? An Impala? A Monte Carlo?

^^^^^

Well, 390 hp is nothing to sneeze at, but what are you running in the 0-60ft? I've yet to see a Mustang that can properly hook up. Also, at just under 85 hp per liter of displacement in a supercharged motor, you have to admit that the engineering/development on the motor just plain sucks.
 

Aharami

Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
21,205
165
106
Originally posted by: RichUK
Anyway, Mazda MX5's aren't they like cars for females and male hair dressers (you know what i mean). I would much prefer an RX7 or the like over an MX5. No offence to the people that own them, but i think they look awful too.

i have to disagree. I got to drive both the RX-8 and the MX-5 around a race course (no, not an autocross track, a real minute and a half race course) at the mazda zoom-zoom event. The miata felt a lot more tossable and yet stable than the rx-8. Both are fun cars, but the miata is a lot more fun than the rx-8. Maybe if the rx-8 had more power...
 

fbrdphreak

Lifer
Apr 17, 2004
17,555
1
0
This whole long thread and it took this long for someone to suggest doing a burnout/donut and seeing which wheels spin. This is of course assuming the Miata has enough power to spin the wheels at a stop, but with a manual I'd hope you could make it happen.
 

SVT Cobra

Lifer
Mar 29, 2005
13,264
2
0
Originally posted by: kevinthenerd
Originally posted by: F22 Raptor
Originally posted by: kevinthenerd
Originally posted by: F22 Raptor
Originally posted by: kevinthenerd
Originally posted by: tfinch2
Originally posted by: F22 Raptor
Wow you guys are seriously deluded with your opinions.

Some of us that have cars that are better than a crappy toyota or a honda (no type R's don't count) like to have a little fun sometimes while driving in a responsible matter. The OP was asking if the mechanic might have taken away one of his options for fun.

And, if the mechanic did do his job then tell him in a polite way, not Hey buddy, a sarcastic responce will only get worse back.

So OP just wait till some real car guys come in and can answer your question, these guys really don't know much.


<<<Drives a 2003 Mustang SVT Cobra and would be seriously pissed if a mechanic changed something that changed its track behavoir.

Miata not included, especially some old tired one.

My girlfriend's Miata has only 70k, and it's a very fun car. I've driven some fast cars, including a Cobra with a built motor that put over 450hp to the wheels, but I must say that HANDLING is what makes a car fun IMHO, and in that respect, few cars beat the bang for the buck of the Miata.

(The two biggest competitors to a used Miata, in my opinion, are the Maxda RX7 and the Toyota MR2. All three are fairly under-powered but handle extremely well.)

They better, they are little tin cans on wheels.

What do you drive? An Impala? A Monte Carlo?

^^^^^

Well, 390 hp is nothing to sneeze at, but what are you running in the 0-60ft? I've yet to see a Mustang that can properly hook up. Also, at just under 85 hp per liter of displacement in a supercharged motor, you have to admit that the engineering/development on the motor just plain sucks.

LOL it's quite obvious that while you may be studying in this area you still have A LOT to learn.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,333
136
Why would you take your car to a mechanic you don't trust? Anyway, check the work order. What it says is most likely what you got. LSD increases traction and stability, so that's likely what you got. With an open diff, you can induce oversteer simply by unweighting the inside rear wheel and then goosing the throttle.

Miatas are among the best handling production cars in the world, especially for their price, and the most popular amateur racing car in the world.
 

thomsbrain

Lifer
Dec 4, 2001
18,148
1
0
Originally posted by: virtualgames0
Originally posted by: RyanSengara
Originally posted by: virtualgames0
I recently got the stock torsen limited slip differential on my 99' miata replaced after it broke.
My mechanic says he replaced it with another torsen from a 2001 model.
But the thing is, the replaced differential feels A LOT different than the one I had before. It feels a lot more stable. It's really hard to kick the rear out now. Before I could easily do a power oversteer. Now with the replaced differential, I don't even think I can do donuts.

So did I get a torsen, or did he give me an open one?

Your car should feel more stable if your LSD was replaced, it shifts the torque around to your different wheels so that your car DOESN'T spin out.

Buddy, I don't think you realize that your car isn't DESIGNED to oversteer, or spin out.

Yup that's what I thought too, but the guys over at miata.net tells me that it's much easier to oversteer with a limited slip differential than an open differential.
So are you saying my old LSD was working as an open one.. and my new one is working much more effectively, thus reducing oversteer?

um, no. it's easier to spin with an open differential. either you or they were confused. the whole POINT of an LSD is that it moves power the wheel with the most grip, meaning you put the power down WITHOUT wheelspin. sounds like your old one wasn't working, or wasn't even an LSD in the first place.
 

thedarkwolf

Diamond Member
Oct 13, 1999
9,003
111
106
I don't know why you people think these things. Open diff equall one tire doing nothing but tracking around while the other tire spins away when you floor going around a corner which means you stay planted. LSD means both tires spinning when you floor it going around a corner making you go flying off into a tree. Some LSDs will switch back and forth depending on which tire has the better traction but it is still easier to spin out with one of those then an open diff. Thats why 90% of the cars on the road have a open diff. Of coarse you can still spin out with an open diff if you really want to.
 

LordMorpheus

Diamond Member
Aug 14, 2002
6,871
1
0
An open diff might actually make it a whole lot harder to break the tail loose - you'd start spinning the inside wheel and then you wouldn't be able to break the outside one loose - and if it did go it'd be unpredictable and you'd spin instead of slide. The LSD would ensure that both wheels lost grip at about the same time, making a slide predictable and controllable.
 

Horus

Platinum Member
Dec 27, 2003
2,838
1
0
Originally posted by: SophalotJack
Originally posted by: virtualgames0
Originally posted by: Zee
Buddy, looks like he did you a favor

Great.. now I have holier than thou guys driving accords telling me how my car is supposed to handle.

are you an artard?

You asked, they answered. Your car sucked anus (prob still does) and the mechanic did his job and fixed it.

idiot.

I'm sorry. We all know that cavaliers or rusty CRXes are the best cars evar.
 

kevinthenerd

Platinum Member
Jun 27, 2002
2,908
0
76
Originally posted by: melchoir
HP/Liter argument is a joke.

Is it? You just haven't seen a properly built V8. A guy I know made 800hp out of a NATURALLY ASPIRATED small block.
 

kevinthenerd

Platinum Member
Jun 27, 2002
2,908
0
76
Originally posted by: F22 Raptor
Originally posted by: kevinthenerd
Originally posted by: F22 Raptor
Originally posted by: kevinthenerd
Originally posted by: F22 Raptor
Originally posted by: kevinthenerd
Originally posted by: tfinch2
Originally posted by: F22 Raptor
Wow you guys are seriously deluded with your opinions.

Some of us that have cars that are better than a crappy toyota or a honda (no type R's don't count) like to have a little fun sometimes while driving in a responsible matter. The OP was asking if the mechanic might have taken away one of his options for fun.

And, if the mechanic did do his job then tell him in a polite way, not Hey buddy, a sarcastic responce will only get worse back.

So OP just wait till some real car guys come in and can answer your question, these guys really don't know much.


<<<Drives a 2003 Mustang SVT Cobra and would be seriously pissed if a mechanic changed something that changed its track behavoir.

Miata not included, especially some old tired one.

My girlfriend's Miata has only 70k, and it's a very fun car. I've driven some fast cars, including a Cobra with a built motor that put over 450hp to the wheels, but I must say that HANDLING is what makes a car fun IMHO, and in that respect, few cars beat the bang for the buck of the Miata.

(The two biggest competitors to a used Miata, in my opinion, are the Maxda RX7 and the Toyota MR2. All three are fairly under-powered but handle extremely well.)

They better, they are little tin cans on wheels.

What do you drive? An Impala? A Monte Carlo?

^^^^^

Well, 390 hp is nothing to sneeze at, but what are you running in the 0-60ft? I've yet to see a Mustang that can properly hook up. Also, at just under 85 hp per liter of displacement in a supercharged motor, you have to admit that the engineering/development on the motor just plain sucks.

LOL it's quite obvious that while you may be studying in this area you still have A LOT to learn.

Enlighten me.