How can I be sure a mobo supports Ryzen 3400g before buying?

[KLC]

I'm aware that motherboards need a bios update to support the new 2nd gen Ryzen chips. I've read that if you buy a mobo that needs an update you have to have another Ryzen cpu to install on the mobo in order to do the update. I'm considering building a pc with the new 3400g chip but I don't have an existing pc with a Ryzen processor so I have no way to update a mobo I buy. There is so much in noise out there about this issue, I've googled and read many things relating to this but it seems so vague. How can I be sure that a mobo has the updated bios before I buy?

 

[Spawn_3_extreme]

Look for motherboards that support bios flashback feature. Like the MSI B450 tomahawk or B450 gaming plus.

 

[UsandThem]

You could have asked that in your other thread as I addressed that in my last response:
https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/new-build-please-comment.2568785/

Unless the company that sells that motherboard will tell what BIOS version is on it (which most larger companies like Amazon and Newegg won't),
you'll have to roll the dice.

 

[KLC]

Yes, I could have, but I didn't. The other thread was narrowly focused on one build, this is a broader question about motherboards in general. It seemed better to me to create something new where that question would be more appropriate and hopefully get a larger audience.

The more I research this the more muddled the information. The only definitive answers seem to be, "maybe, maybe not, who knows, take your chances..." I'm rethinking the whole AMD approach and will probably go with Intel. I don't want to buy something and then not be able to use it.

 

[UsandThem]

Yes, I could have, but I didn't. The other thread was narrowly focused on one build, this is a broader question about motherboards in general. It seemed better to me to create something new where that question would be more appropriate and hopefully get a larger audience.

The more I research this the more muddled the information. The only definitive answers seem to be, "maybe, maybe not, who knows, take your chances..." I'm rethinking the whole AMD approach and will probably go with Intel. I don't want to buy something and then not be able to use it.

It's not really a confusing issue, and it's not an AMD or Intel issue. Intel users who buy just launched processors run into the exact same issue.

All motherboard manufacturers maintain a list (under the support section of the particular motherboard) on what CPUs are supported, and the earliest BIOS version that they were supported. Here is the CPU list for the Asus Z390-PRIME motherboard:



I just bought an Asus X470 motherboard, and it came with a BIOS version from June (which supported the new Ryzen 3XXX CPUs). It came from Newegg, who moves motherboards fast. That's really all it comes down to. Finally, like I said in your other thread, AMD will ship you a loaner CPU in order to flash your BIOS if needed. Otherwise, you can take it into a local PC repair shop, and they can do it there as well.

 

[UsandThem]

Also, if you don't want to do any of what I said in your other thread or here, just buy a X570 motherboard. You will be guaranteed that it will work out of the box without any new BIOS updates required for it to boot.

 

[KLC]

I think it's amusing that your first reply to me ended with "you'll have to roll the dice" and then you follow that by telling me I'm wrong for saying I don't want to roll the dice. And of course this problem could exist with AMD and Intel, but I'm not worried about theoretical questions, I'm worried about buying a 3400g and an AMD mobo right now that needs bios flashing and that problem doesn't exist with Intel right now. That's just a fact, not my perception. And yeah, I really want to ask AMD to send me a cpu and then wait for them to send it to me and then flash the bios, and return the chip and etc, etc, etc. No. PC hardware is not my hobby, I'm just building because it's the best value and quality for the money, so I want to simplify the process as much as I can.

I've looked at some x570 boards, they're pretty expensive and the onboard graphics ports and specs for many of them are surprisingly paltry, probably because they are oriented to someone who is buying a graphics card anyway. I want a pretty simple build, good value for the money, no gaming. On board graphics and a middle priced mobo are the right combination for me. So, I'll keep working this out. But I do appreciate your help, the information is valuable.

 

[UsandThem]

I think it's amusing that your first reply to me ended with "you'll have to roll the dice" and then you follow that by telling me I'm wrong for saying I don't want to roll the dice.

I said that as I not of any online retailer who will guarantee what BIOS version will come on the motherboard.......AMD or Intel. From your posts, you seem to want a guarantee that you won't have any issues building with newer components, but that's just not how it goes. I wasn't sure of what BIOS version would come on my new motherboard, but that's just how it goes buying online.

This sort of dilemma always comes up after new product launches, until the retailers clear out any older stock with older BIOS on them.

Now if you are able to contact a small boutique parts seller who will guarantee shipping a motherboard with a particular BIOS version, then that's the way to go. I've seen this question asked many times over the years, with some users complaining about places Newegg or Amazon unable to to tell them that info.

I'm not sure what anyone else can say that will help you in this regard. You can always order the free AMD CPU loaner kit so you have it on hand already if you need it, that's about the only sure-fire way you will be guaranteed of it working with that particular CPU and a most X470 / B450 motherboards. Like the other user said in post #2, there are a few motherboards where people can flash the BIOS without a CPU installed (like the MSI B450 Tomahawk). Some users have a local Micro Center who will update the BIOS for them (or have already flashed their older stock and put a "Ryzen 3000" compatible sticker on it). Anyways, best of luck with your next build.

 

[KLC]

I said that as I not of any online retailer who will guarantee what BIOS version will come on the motherboard.......AMD or Intel. From your posts, you seem to want a guarantee that you won't have any issues building with newer components, but that's just not how it goes. I wasn't sure of what BIOS version would come on my new motherboard, but that's just how it goes buying online.

Rarely does having a non current bios mean you can't even use the mobo, you know that. And yes, I want some kind of guarantee of compatibility if that compatibility means the system won't function, I bet you want that too. And wanting to avoid having a non functional system is not the same thing as wanting to avoid any issues when building it, I know you know that too.

 

[UsandThem]

Rarely does having a non current bios mean you can't even use the mobo, you know that. And yes, I want some kind of guarantee of compatibility if that compatibility means the system won't function, I bet you want that too. And wanting to avoid having a non functional system is not the same thing as wanting to avoid any issues when building it, I know you know that too.

Whatever you say. I'll be sure to stay out of your future posts. Good luck!

 

[VirtualLarry]

Rarely does having a non current bios mean you can't even use the mobo, you know that. And yes, I want some kind of guarantee of compatibility if that compatibility means the system won't function, I bet you want that too. And wanting to avoid having a non functional system is not the same thing as wanting to avoid any issues when building it, I know you know that too.

Hey, we all want "rainbows and unicorns" product launches too, but this is AMD that we're talking about, and Intel boards have the SAME issue with the BIOS needing to be flashed with an older CPU, when CPUs newer than the mobo mfg date come out. This is, sadly, not unusual. It's basically par for the course with the industry.

One thing that is slightly different, though, is some Intel boards can run in a sort of "limp mode", if they have a CPU that is electrically-compatible with the socket, just not properly identified by the mobo / not containing micro-code updates for that CPU. This can sometimes allow one to flash to a newer BIOS, without needing an older CPU.

Whereas, my experience with AMD is, due to their AGESA mechanism, if you have an unsupported CPU in the AM4 socket, the board, etc., simply appear DEAD, DEAD, DEAD. Until you manage to put in a supported CPU, and flash to a supported BIOS, and then drop in the newer CPU.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Hey, we all want "rainbows and unicorns" product launches too, but this is AMD that we're talking about, and Intel boards have the SAME issue with the BIOS needing to be flashed with an older CPU, when CPUs newer than the mobo mfg date come out. This is, sadly, not unusual. It's basically par for the course with the industry.

One thing that is slightly different, though, is some Intel boards can run in a sort of "limp mode", if they have a CPU that is electrically-compatible with the socket, just not properly identified by the mobo / not containing micro-code updates for that CPU. This can sometimes allow one to flash to a newer BIOS, without needing an older CPU.

Whereas, my experience with AMD is, due to their AGESA mechanism, if you have an unsupported CPU in the AM4 socket, the board, etc., simply appear DEAD, DEAD, DEAD. Until you manage to put in a supported CPU, and flash to a supported BIOS, and then drop in the newer CPU.

This like memory support is an area where intel is plainly better.
Smart for them to include a “limp mode” to allow bios updates.
Sadly we currently have a fat bloated lazy intel vs doing something different AMD but it has gotcha moments.

 

[lopri]

Never mind. Heh.

 

[KLC]

Hey, we all want "rainbows and unicorns" product launches...Whereas, my experience with AMD is, due to their AGESA mechanism, if you have an unsupported CPU in the AM4 socket, the board, etc., simply appear DEAD, DEAD, DEAD. Until you manage to put in a supported CPU, and flash to a supported BIOS, and then drop in the newer CPU.

But if ya'll will read again my original post I'm NOT asking for rainbows and unicorns. I'm trying to avoid, as you said, a new system build that is DEAD, DEAD, DEAD until I manage to put in a supported CPU. I'm not like a lot of you that have built many PCs but I have built 4 of them over the last 20 years, and I've NEVER had to worry about building a dead system as long as I did my due diligence and made sure the components were compatible.

It baffles me that anyone, least of all a forum "Super Moderator," would take someone to task for coming to Anandtech forums and asking a very specific question about compatibility in the correct forum in order to ensure a successful build. Specific replies to specific questions, even if they're just to say that right now there isn't an answer, are really appreciated. Lectures based on erroneous assumptions not even remotely contained in the original question are not.


You cannot attack the moderator staff here. Do not do so again.

AT Moderator ElFenix

 

[UsandThem]

It baffles me that anyone, least of all a forum "Super Moderator," would take someone to task for coming to Anandtech forums and asking a very specific question about compatibility in the correct forum in order to ensure a successful build. Specific replies to specific questions, even if they're just to say that right now there isn't an answer, are really appreciated. Lectures based on erroneous assumptions not even remotely contained in the original question are not.

Just because you don't seem to listen isn't my fault. I listed all the options you had, but none ot them satisfied your unreasonable expectations.
I'm just sorry I wasted my time trying to help you out for free, as you are not an appreciative person (the type which I remember and avoid in the future).

 

[VirtualLarry]

I'm considering building a pc with the new 3400g chip but I don't have an existing pc with a Ryzen processor so I have no way to update a mobo I buy. There is so much in noise out there about this issue, I've googled and read many things relating to this but it seems so vague. How can I be sure that a mobo has the updated bios before I buy?

Also, if you don't want to do any of what I said in your other thread or here, just buy a X570 motherboard. You will be guaranteed that it will work out of the box without any new BIOS updates required for it to boot.

You already got your answer, OP. If you're just too cheap to drop the cash for an X570, well, sorry.

Maybe consider an Intel rig instead? That seems more your speed?

Rarely does having a non current bios mean you can't even use the mobo, you know that.

And... you're just plain wrong about that, when talking about the AM4 platform. Just one of it's idiosyncrasies.

 

[KLC]

I'm just sorry I wasted my time trying to help you out for free, as you are not an appreciative person.

But I did express my appreciation, both here and in the thread you referenced in your first reply.

But I do appreciate your help, the information is valuable.

You already got your answer, OP. If you're just too cheap to drop the cash for an X570, well, sorry.

It is one answer to my question, did you miss that I responded to it and gave some reasons why it wasn't a good fit for me?

I've looked at some x570 boards, they're pretty expensive and the onboard graphics ports and specs for many of them are surprisingly paltry, probably because they are oriented to someone who is buying a graphics card anyway. I want a pretty simple build, good value for the money, no gaming. On board graphics and a middle priced mobo are the right combination for me.

Maybe consider an Intel rig instead?

That's a good suggestion, so good that I made it myself back at the very beginning of this thread.

I'm rethinking the whole AMD approach and will probably go with Intel. I don't want to buy something and then not be able to use it.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Given your usage is basic stuff plus a little photoshop and lightroom, Intel is a great pick for you. You will not leverage the better graphics on the 3400G, and photoshop likes a high clocked core. It reads like you need this to be plug and play, no flashing firmware and such. Build a new i3 setup and you will be good to go.

 

[KLC]

You cannot attack the moderator staff here. Do not do so again.

AT Moderator ElFenix

ElFenix, I have not "attacked" any of the moderator staff in anything I've written as far as I can tell. Saying that I'm baffled by the confrontational replies I received to a very specific question is hardly an attack in any way or form. If you are referring to something else I've written please point it out to me.


You have a pm. Do not discuss moderation further in this thread. If you have a concern, please respectfully make a post in the Moderator Discussion sub board.

AT Moderator ElFenix

 

[UsandThem]

But I did express my appreciation, both here and in the thread you referenced in your first reply.

Please stop quoting me in this (as I keep getting notifications).

I'm done participating in this thread / discussion.

 

[jhansman]

AMD, Intel and the motherboard manufacturers are all vying for our hardware dollars while bringing us the bleeding edge (to say nothing of graphics card, storage, and memory makers). There's bound to be gaps in compatibility, until there's not. I called Asrock the other day to ask if the Ryzen 5 3600 I bought will boot with their B540M PRO4 board and was told (in no uncertain terms) "You'll have to update the BIOS before you do anything else." This assumes the system will boot, but all the more I could get from this fellow was, "Look for the sticker on the box." The Matisse CPUs are listed as supported by this mobo, and the agent made a point of naming Newegg and Amazon as vendors who carry their boards with the latest BIOS. Still, it seems a matter of luck at this point. Think of it as an....adventure. 😉

 

[matheusber]

To the OP, I just got a Gigabyte B450 from Aorus line and even though the bios version it came with was not the one the manufacturer said would support it, I got no problem running the Ryzen 5 3400G on it.

I guess the Zen+ may not need that update. Has anyone seen that?

matheus

 

[VirtualLarry]

Well, Zen+ is pretty much the same as Zen, so possibly, you got lucky. 🙂