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How can ancient greek & spartans fight so well against all odds? 300 VS 2 MILLION!!!

W

wasserkool

Banned
I did some reading on the Gates of Fire and found out that a few hundred spartans fought 2 million persians and delayed them long enough to rally the greek states.

Is it because the spartan and greeks have superior trainings over the persians as well as unity?
 
They had bigger swords in a metaphorical sense.

I actually believe it was a combination of superior training and equipment.
 
They controlled a choke point. Didn't matter that the 2 million Persians had them so overwhelmingly outnumbered because the Greeks could fight them a handul at a time.

As I recall, it was a traitor who revealed a hunting path to the Persians, allowing them to hit the Greeks from the rear.
 
Originally posted by: wasserkool
I did some reading on the Gates of Fire and found out that a few hundred spartans fought 2 million persians and delayed them long enough to rally the greek states.

Is it because the spartan and greeks have superior trainings over the persians as well as unity?
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2 million??? wow those spartans kicked ass!!!!!
 
I'm going to guess.....and again this is just a guess....that the Spartans were also ninjas and the persians were pirates? again, that's just my take on it.
 
Originally posted by: Siva
They had bigger swords in a metaphorical sense.

I actually believe it was a combination of superior training and equipment.
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technically, its right, because the phalanx is a very powerful formation..but 600 vs 2 million?? It must take some very highly disciplined soldier to stay sane and fight as one coherent unit
 
it was in a valley. you know everytime you can only send a small # of soldiers to attack. spartans kill them, then the corpses pill ups. now the spartans are standing on the corpse which is an advantage. so there are more corprses pilling up and the spartans stand higher and higher.

spartan was defeated because of a traitor.
 
I still prefer the Roman Legion.

Kicking a$$ was their specialty.

Remember that old thread about who would win: Roman Legion or US Army, given the weapons used by the Legion?
 
Originally posted by: DaWhim
it was in a valley. you know everytime you can only send a small # of soldiers to attack. spartans kill them, then the corpses pill ups. now the spartans are standing on the corpse which is an advantage. so there are more corprses pilling up and the spartans stand higher and higher.

spartan was defeated because of a traitor.
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Yep, i remember this lecture in western civ. Showed them a secret pass that they used to flank them, IIRC.
 
The pass at Thermopolea... This is historical fact. 300 spartans held of over a million Persians. Since childhood spartan men were trained for war... they lived in a militarized society and were amazing warriors. They held a pass between persia and greece... they held the pass for 3 days and it gave the greeks enough time to rally and army.
 
...An area I've studied : )

I assume you're talking about Herodotus' The Histories.

Well it was a few hundred/thousands but while the book recorded numbers in the millions it is far more likely to be dealing with an army in the size order of 100,000-200,000 or so although don't quote me on that as I can't quite remember the numbers that classists worked out.

However, the reasosn why ths Spartans did so well was because of their superior, training, discipline but also armour and weaponry. Alot of the reason they managed to hold the choke point was because their spears were longers than the Persians while the Persians could not move round them because it was a choke point. Of course the Spartans holding them was only possible because of their training and discipline.

Either way, as you originally point out - absolutely amazing. That they fought against an army that size, had them beat them for a couple of days despite the fact they knew they were facing inevitable death.... astounding.
 
Originally posted by: necine
The pass at Thermopolea... This is historical fact. 300 spartans held of over a million Persians. Since childhood spartan men were trained for war... they lived in a militarized society and were amazing warriors. They held a pass between persia and greece... they held the pass for 3 days and it gave the greeks enough time to rally and army.
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The numbers aren't historical fact. Historians believe more like 7,000 Spartans versus 200,000 Persians. One of those stories where everything gets bigger every time its told, eh?
 
Originally posted by: KingofCamelot
Originally posted by: necine
The pass at Thermopolea... This is historical fact. 300 spartans held of over a million Persians. Since childhood spartan men were trained for war... they lived in a militarized society and were amazing warriors. They held a pass between persia and greece... they held the pass for 3 days and it gave the greeks enough time to rally and army.
Click to expand...

The numbers aren't historical fact. Historians believe more like 7,000 Spartans versus 200,000 Persians. One of those stories where everything gets bigger every time its told, eh?
Click to expand...

Well more that Herodotus couldn't count. He guessed at his figures due to the number of ships it was thought Xerxes had and the numbers each ship could hold - however his numbers were off and his maths wrong.
 
Herodotus was a Greek, and without CNN there, I'd say he was exaggerating. I wish the Persians had their own account of what happened.
 
After their spears broke, the Spartans and Thespians kept fighting with their xiphos short swords, and after those broke, they were said to have fought with their bare hands and teeth. Although the Greeks killed many Persians, including two of Xerxes' brothers, Leonidas was eventually killed, along with all of his men. The last Spartans were killed by a barrage of arrows after fighting fanatically to recover their king's body, having been driven back into the narrowest part of the pass onto a small hill.
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God damn those spartans were crazy!
 
From what I've read it was 300 handpicked Spartans and 5,000(?) soldiers from other Greek States. The Persian figures vary wildly but the Greeks were vastly outnumbered in any case.
 
The actual number of 300 is probably more fiction than fact, and there were other Greek soldiers from other provinces fighting with them up until the last day, but they were still EXTREMELY outnumbered nonetheless.

As someone mentioned, it was the terrain and very narrow pass that let them hold off the Persians that long. And like every other Greek story, there was a traitor who fvcked things over for everybody else in the end. Someone led the Persians to an alternate path to bypass and surround the remaining Greeks.
 
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