My company recently inacted a new policy that requires employees to pay back all tuition reimbursement received over the last year if you leave the compnay voluntarily. I've been attending a private school, so I've racked up a huge bill. I know that they will basically apply all remaining pay checks and vacation hours to the debt, but what can they do outside of that? Can they take company matches out of my 401k? They could probably take me to court, but it's a big corporation so I don't think they would even bother.
How can a company force you to pay back tuition reimbursement
- Thread starter Mears
- Start date
robphelan
Diamond Member
- Aug 28, 2003
- 4,084
- 17
- 81
it's normal for a company to require you to pay back reimbursement IF you leave voluntarily WITHIN a certain time frame of that reimbursement.
in other words.. if you graduate & 10 years later you leave, they won't ask you for that money back. they just don't want you having a free ride on them.
in other words.. if you graduate & 10 years later you leave, they won't ask you for that money back. they just don't want you having a free ride on them.
well see it's like this....when they offer you tuition reimbursement they do so with the idea in mind that you will stay at the company for x amount of months or years...that way they get something out of it.
usually they will have you sign and agreement stating that fact.
Sounds to me like you are trying to screw them out of something and now your upset because they want their money back.
usually they will have you sign and agreement stating that fact.
Sounds to me like you are trying to screw them out of something and now your upset because they want their money back.
How does any company get you to pay a bill? How does the electric power company, water company, phone company, mortgage company, get you to pay your bill?
In this country (assuming you are in USA) the burden of proof that you do NOT owe someone money lies on the person wanting the money...but the burden of proof that you do NOT owe a company money lies on the person not wanting to pay the bill.
Welcome to a country run by lawyers and lobbyists.
So are you ready to have your credit record trashed? They may not come after you in a way that costs them lots of lawyer fees (your reference to beleiving no court time will come of this for you) but they can easily elect to leave a few gifts on your credit record.
Also be prepared to be black-listed by them should you ever seek employment at reputable/professional institutions that do background checks and contact prior employers to "get the low down" on a potential new-hires "antics".
I'm assuming this was part of the contract when you applied for tuition reimbursement from your company.
If they really wanted to, they could sue you to recover that money.
[Edit] OK, I just re-read the OP. My take is that they won't be able to recover anything if you leave the company for reimbursement made while the old policy was in effect. But if you continue to go to school and get reimbursed and leave the company, they could try to recover the money reimbursed to you since the new policy was put into place.
Standard IANAL disclaimer goes here.
If they really wanted to, they could sue you to recover that money.
[Edit] OK, I just re-read the OP. My take is that they won't be able to recover anything if you leave the company for reimbursement made while the old policy was in effect. But if you continue to go to school and get reimbursed and leave the company, they could try to recover the money reimbursed to you since the new policy was put into place.
Standard IANAL disclaimer goes here.
At first, I was ready to bash the OP too, but I decided to think about it more first.
It seems he's asking a question about possibilities and worried about what might happen in the future, not necessarily that he's in a positino where they're asking for their money back now.
OP, at usually people read the contract they sign when it involves lots of money (or in your case, at least ask the nice man/woman across the table from you the gist of what the paper says even if you get lied to). I think common practice is that you gotta stay for how long they pay for. They pay for 1 year of tuition, you gotta stay for another year afterwards before you leave.
EDIT: I think Linflas is right. Nice reading.
It seems he's asking a question about possibilities and worried about what might happen in the future, not necessarily that he's in a positino where they're asking for their money back now.
OP, at usually people read the contract they sign when it involves lots of money (or in your case, at least ask the nice man/woman across the table from you the gist of what the paper says even if you get lied to). I think common practice is that you gotta stay for how long they pay for. They pay for 1 year of tuition, you gotta stay for another year afterwards before you leave.
EDIT: I think Linflas is right. Nice reading.
mugs
Lifer
- Apr 29, 2003
- 48,920
- 46
- 91
Usually the company has enough sense to stipulate the conditions BEFORE they shell out the cash.
OP - does this apply if you leave voluntarily at ANY time, or only if you leave within a certain time period? At my company you only have to pay back anything within 18 months of when you left.
JEDIYoda
Lifer
- Jul 13, 2005
- 33,986
- 3,320
- 126
Ther are several excellent and accurate replies....
This being ATOT though I would say this reply most likely fits the bill.....giving you the benefit of the doubt that possibly you thought the company was just being nice in helping you with your education. Perhaps not realizing that to get a free ride the company wanted to own your soul for a few years after you graduate...
well see it's like this....when they offer you tuition reimbursement they do so with the idea in mind that you will stay at the company for x amount of months or years...that way they get something out of it.
usually they will have you sign and agreement stating that fact.
Sounds to me like you are trying to screw them out of something and now your upset because they want their money back.
I personally do not understand why somebody woul think that they could just leave a company that was helping them pay for there education and then expect the company to just say-- hey we are glad you graduated good luck in your future endeavors....
hmmm
This being ATOT though I would say this reply most likely fits the bill.....giving you the benefit of the doubt that possibly you thought the company was just being nice in helping you with your education. Perhaps not realizing that to get a free ride the company wanted to own your soul for a few years after you graduate...
well see it's like this....when they offer you tuition reimbursement they do so with the idea in mind that you will stay at the company for x amount of months or years...that way they get something out of it.
usually they will have you sign and agreement stating that fact.
Sounds to me like you are trying to screw them out of something and now your upset because they want their money back.
I personally do not understand why somebody woul think that they could just leave a company that was helping them pay for there education and then expect the company to just say-- hey we are glad you graduated good luck in your future endeavors....
hmmm
Guess you missed this part of his post:
I've yet to see an tuition reimbursement contract that didn't include this.
He is saying that the OP most likely signed a contract at the beginning of his tuition reimbursment and it probably included this, it's just that they never wanted to make a big deal out of it before (for morale reasons most likely). Probably a few people have screwed them so now they are making it known.
The person you quoted is basically saying check the original contract you signed. Yes if he never signed a contract originally or if it didn't include this stipulation then the company can't apply this retroactively.
I've seen tuition re-imbursement contracts that would be ok with you grabbing a degree and running as far and as fast as possible following....but only for certain positions at universities. They use the free tuition as a carrot to lure more technically able folk than their salary scale can afford. The way they figure...tuition is funny money to them anyways and they'll retain you for at least as long as it takes for you to grab a degree.
I would talk to HR and make sure you didn't actually already agree to these terms and that they're not simple re-iterating or beginning to actively enforce it.
Gunslinger08
Lifer
- Nov 18, 2001
- 13,234
- 2
- 81
They would think that because it wasn't in the contract. This thread isn't about whether or not it's right to do that or expect your employer to foot the bill. It's about what they can do if they never even had a stated policy.
Ok, let me clarify a few things. When I started taking classes three years ago my company didn't have a cap or any repayment requirements. A year into my program, they changed the policy and introduced both a cap and a repayment policy (all tuition reimbursement received within the last year). They also said that existing students would be grandfathered until Jan. 2007. I called the benefits service and they told me that that only applied to the cap and not the repayment. Since the initial policy change, they've changed it several more times. I sure as hell can't keep up with the rules when they're constantly changing them, and the form I fill out each quarter only references some corporate policy number instead of providing the details with the form.
I had no intentions of leaving the company, so it was never much of a concern. Unfortunately, for reasons outside of work, I'm going to have to find a new position. I've tried to find other positions in the company that would work for me, but have been unsuccessful. I currently have a job offer and am trying to figure out what is going to happen. I would be OK with paying back to Jan 2007 (about $18k), but if they make me go back a full year from today's date we're well into $20k. I'm not even sure how I would go about getting a loan for that.
If I decide to accept this new offer, are they going to expect a certified check for $25k or whatever my balance comes to after they deduct my vacation, or will they accept payments, or what?
I had no intentions of leaving the company, so it was never much of a concern. Unfortunately, for reasons outside of work, I'm going to have to find a new position. I've tried to find other positions in the company that would work for me, but have been unsuccessful. I currently have a job offer and am trying to figure out what is going to happen. I would be OK with paying back to Jan 2007 (about $18k), but if they make me go back a full year from today's date we're well into $20k. I'm not even sure how I would go about getting a loan for that.
If I decide to accept this new offer, are they going to expect a certified check for $25k or whatever my balance comes to after they deduct my vacation, or will they accept payments, or what?
MikeyIs4Dcats
Lifer
- Nov 5, 2001
- 18,366
- 3
- 0
I do not see how they could force repayment of any monies prior to the policy enactment. You should have written documentation of the policy and it's effective dates.
I have since read the policy, and it's aimed at new applicants, meaning that it doesn't specifically mention how grandfathering is/was handled. It also doesn't give any specifics on how you actually are supposed to pay back the reimbursement.
so you have no hard copy of the agreement you signed personally?
sorry to say it but unless you have something concrete in writing, you are screwed.
The fact there is NO business that will allow someone to walk out with 20+k of the companies money. Either in your pocket or from them paying your school bills.
In essence that is what you are doing. I worked for a company that had tuition reimbursement long before many companies around here even had such a plan in place and even then (25+ years ago) they made you sign an agreement that you would stay with the company for a period of 2 years after you graduate. If you left of your own accord you had to repay it back in full.
I can hardly believe that your contract/agreement would not state such a fact.
Trust me, they will get their money...they have more of it than you and can afford lawyers to come after you and garnish your wages from any jobs you may get down the road, not to mention, this little incident may slip out from your current HR reps mouth into the ear of the HR guy of any future company that calls for refs....I can guarantee it.
You don't think they will be just a tiny bit pissed that you stroll out the door with a wad of their cash?....think again.
DrPizza
Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
(IANAL) To the best of my understanding of your situation, somewhere along the line, they instituted a policy where if you left (within a certain period of time), you had to pay them back.
And, that's exactly what you're going to have to do: pay them back to the point when that policy was instituted. If they want you to pay back to before the policy was instituted, then you'd probably be able to dispute that part of the debt, hence the talk of "grandfathering" - they know this too.
As far as can they make you? Well, it'd be a waste of their time to even institute such a policy if they had no intention of enforcing it.
And, that's exactly what you're going to have to do: pay them back to the point when that policy was instituted. If they want you to pay back to before the policy was instituted, then you'd probably be able to dispute that part of the debt, hence the talk of "grandfathering" - they know this too.
As far as can they make you? Well, it'd be a waste of their time to even institute such a policy if they had no intention of enforcing it.
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 24K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 19K
-
-
-
Facebook
Twitter