How badly would you like to hurt Drunk Drivers

[Mean MrMustard]

Participating in something that knowingly can kill another person should be considered "intent"

Lets ban hunting, guns altogether, driving (even sober), the use of knives, swimming, etc...

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Imbibing ANY foreign substance KNOWN to alter you is premeditation to ANYTHING you do under it's influence. Drinking and all drugs should be legal, but anyone commiting a crime under the influence IS 100% GUILTY OF PREMEDITATION FOR THE CRIME AS THEY CHOSE TO TAKE THE SUBSTANCE IN THE FIRST PLACE. Under that reasoning, it IS possible to charge 1st degree murder for drunk driving, though I doubt it could be made to stick without establishing a history of similar crimes. In other words, only chargable if you can demonstrate previous DUI or substance abuse charges.

If I was ever in an accident where the other person was drunk (obviously) I would draw my weapon and kill him/her on the spot. I don't care that I'll go to prison, cause I'll be right. That person would almost definately continue to drink and drive and might some day kill some innocent person, maybe my child. I won't allow it. Being alive gives me an inherent right to defend my life and that of my family. I can't defend them after they're dead, so my only option is to remove obvious threats before any harm is dealt to innocents. You don't have to agree, I don't care. It's still how I feel and how I'd react. Bleeding heart liberals need to go live in fantasy land and let the rest of us be safe.

A man's wife of many years is dying from an illness. A cure is available but the man is poor and cannot afford it. The man breaks into a pharmacy at night and steals the cure for his wife. Is what the man did right or wrong?"

The man is of course right to act, although he is also subject to criminal charges for his actions, which he should gladly accept in trade for saving his wife. The proper course of action is then to investigate the drug manufacturer and if it's found that the cost of the drug is NOT relative to it's manufacturing costs, the drug company should immediately be closed, every executive sentenced to 30 years in prison for conspiracy to commit murder and extortion/rackateering, and a federal program implemented to, at accurate cost, distribute the needed drug. After that the process to manufacture the drug should be made available on the internet so that everybody can manufacture their own, destroying any hope of evil greedy bastards ever killing more people for another porsche.

Just wanted to tell you that you have NO clue what you are talking about and made a post that proves you don't understand reality or the law.

 

[Jugernot]

Originally posted by: Zugzwang152

Originally posted by: AnyMal
Yet another reason I support any drunk driving accidents that result in death to be treated as first degree murder cases, not involuntary manslaughter.

first degree murder is premeditated. drunk driving accidents are just that-accidents. people dont get drunk, planning on killing little girls later. Involuntary manslaughter is the highest penalty the law provides.

Sometimes, yes , that is the case. Other times, when you are drunk you lose your inhibitions. I'm heard of cases where people go "car hunting" when they were drunk. try to hit as many people as they can without having to stop. Yes, it's real and they are murders. Each case should be looked at seperately, but when you get in a car drunk, it's the same as point a half loaded revolver as a innocent person. You pull the trigger and sometimes they get killed sometimes they don't.

 

[ohtwell]

One of my friends was killed by a drunk driver. She was only nine. 🙁


: ( Amanda

 

[PrinceofWands]

Just wanted to tell you that you have NO clue what you are talking about and made a post that proves you don't understand reality or the law

I never said anything about law, I talked about opinion which has no right or wrong basis. I didn't say "I'm a lawyer and this is so", I tossed out my OPINION. That's how I see it.

As for the law, I will NEVER accept law over justice. NEVER. The law is corrupt, our entire legal system defunct. It MUST be abolished and rewritten ground up to have any chance at true justice. As to how much I know about the subject, the subject is philosophy, history, etc and I am WELL versed in these areas. It is only the blinded who cling tenaciously to our degrading system that cannot see the greater good. Reality is NOT what some suit in DC tells us, reality is what we each INDIVIDUALLY make of it. You have absolute power and can exercise it how you will, understanding that you may face repurcussions for your actions by others that do not share your opinion. We can change anything in our society, with enough education, discipline and hard work. We do NOT have to accept what is set before us...we are human beings, not lap dogs.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Just wanted to tell you that you have NO clue what you are talking about and made a post that proves you don't understand reality or the law

I never said anything about law, I talked about opinion which has no right or wrong basis. I didn't say "I'm a lawyer and this is so", I tossed out my OPINION. That's how I see it.

As for the law, I will NEVER accept law over justice. NEVER. The law is corrupt, our entire legal system defunct. It MUST be abolished and rewritten ground up to have any chance at true justice. As to how much I know about the subject, the subject is philosophy, history, etc and I am WELL versed in these areas. It is only the blinded who cling tenaciously to our degrading system that cannot see the greater good. Reality is NOT what some suit in DC tells us, reality is what we each INDIVIDUALLY make of it. You have absolute power and can exercise it how you will, understanding that you may face repurcussions for your actions by others that do not share your opinion. We can change anything in our society, with enough education, discipline and hard work. We do NOT have to accept what is set before us...we are human beings, not lap dogs.

Your first paragraph of your first post made it seem as if you were giving a lecture on what the law would intend in this case. As for you not having to accept things as they are, how come you haven't started a grassroots campaign to change the CJ system? Secondly I said you didn't live in reality which you obviously do not because if you did you would know that it is impossible to rewrite the justice system and not expect all the criminals to be instantly free. If you abolished the current system then all could be freed because the law would no longer be on the books. If you tired to try them with new laws you would be shut down by ex post facto laws.

I am not saying that you are stupid or anything, but rather you are not living in current reality and your concept of the law is flawed.

 

[kermalou]

i know of two people that were recently (last month) killed in a drunk driving accident (none of them were drunk, they were both hit by stupid drunks)

i think that whoever is found driving drunk should lose their license, PERIOD, becasue if someone does it once they will keep on doing it, from experience i know this.

it is really sad how educated smart people (lots of assuming here) can still drive drunk.

 

[PrinceofWands]

I realize the obstacles to overcome would be enormous, however America was founded on starting from scratch to make things right, no matter the cost. We've survived worse, and could survive a rewrite. The problems are too numerous to hope to correct individually. Judicial branch effectively making laws, overturn of jury verdict powers, liberal punishment interfearance, reliance on funding which is shrinking in availability, ancient laws, laws based on outdated models, corrupt officials, life terms for judges, judicial immunities, self-propagation of lawyers (lawyers become judges who become politicians who write laws affecting lawyers), ....it's all over. It's too big. When a program is modified so much no one can decipher the code anymore, you wipe it out and start with a blank page. That's where we're at.

Law has become a game, justice a cutesy word attributed to idealogical stupidity. It MUST stop.

There can be no major change in America from within. America is no longer controlled by the people, or for the people. It is controlled by money, business, and political clout. Those without those factors in their lives CAN NOT affect proper change in our system any longer. Microsofts crushing of better designed software, oil/car companies crushing of better fuel systems, etc...we see it every day. Only the rich and powerful can work 'within' the system, by buying what they want the system to become. This is simple fact. It happens, has happened throughout all of recorded history to every nation in the world. It's folly to arrogantly think we are somehow above it. I'd love to campaign, but it serves no purpose. No, learn, educate, stand tall, speak out, and be ready for action (and the consequences of those actions)...that is the hope of America.

 

[PrinceofWands]

i think that whoever is found driving drunk should lose their license, PERIOD

That won't help, they'll just drive without them. There are documented cases of people having hundreds of tickets and charges for driving while suspended, driving without a license, etc. Unless you design cars that ONLY start if you have a valid license, taking the license away is meaningless. You have to PHYSICALLY prevent them from ever driving again. That's the only way to be sure.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
I realize the obstacles to overcome would be enormous, however America was founded on starting from scratch to make things right, no matter the cost. We've survived worse, and could survive a rewrite. The problems are too numerous to hope to correct individually. Judicial branch effectively making laws, overturn of jury verdict powers, liberal punishment interfearance, reliance on funding which is shrinking in availability, ancient laws, laws based on outdated models, corrupt officials, life terms for judges, judicial immunities, self-propagation of lawyers (lawyers become judges who become politicians who write laws affecting lawyers), ....it's all over. It's too big. When a program is modified so much no one can decipher the code anymore, you wipe it out and start with a blank page. That's where we're at.

Law has become a game, justice a cutesy word attributed to idealogical stupidity. It MUST stop.

There can be no major change in America from within. America is no longer controlled by the people, or for the people. It is controlled by money, business, and political clout. Those without those factors in their lives CAN NOT affect proper change in our system any longer. Microsofts crushing of better designed software, oil/car companies crushing of better fuel systems, etc...we see it every day. Only the rich and powerful can work 'within' the system, by buying what they want the system to become. This is simple fact. It happens, has happened throughout all of recorded history to every nation in the world. It's folly to arrogantly think we are somehow above it. I'd love to campaign, but it serves no purpose. No, learn, educate, stand tall, speak out, and be ready for action (and the consequences of those actions)...that is the hope of America.

Outdated laws and models are being rewritten or invalidated every day. Only Federal Judges have life terms, most judges do not have any type of immunity, most politicians are business men and not lawyers. I could invalidate just about all of your statements in one way or the other. You are not looking for a rewrite or an abolishment. That is quite impossible wirhout releasing prisoner's or allowing criminals to go free for a certain time period. What you are advocating is reform and I am all for that. Reform is happening constantly and if you want to be a part of it jump on ship.

I was a member of teen court about 4 years ago in which teens were the lawyers, prosecutors, jurors, and baliffs for teens arrested for misdemeanors. That system did not clog family court and its punishments were more effective and our recidivism rate was MUCH lower than family courts.

Be active and participate in the reform. A total rewrite or abolishment of the current system will never happen and if you continue to push for it you are wasting your time.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

i think that whoever is found driving drunk should lose their license, PERIOD

That won't help, they'll just drive without them. There are documented cases of people having hundreds of tickets and charges for driving while suspended, driving without a license, etc. Unless you design cars that ONLY start if you have a valid license, taking the license away is meaningless. You have to PHYSICALLY prevent them from ever driving again. That's the only way to be sure.

They have cars that will not physically start unless the person blows into a breathalyzer and had no alcohol in their system. I believe there is an identification system to prevent the removal of the system or someone else starting the car.

 

[zippy]

The punishment is currently far too light on drunken drivers.

Both of my sister's have been hit by drunk drivers - one was hit by a guy that had stolen the car, then, when he ran a stop sign and hit my sister he got out of the car and ran away. My other sister was rear ended by one while at a stop sign. Both got out relatively unscathed, just a little shaken up, but it could have been worse and that certainly is frightening to imagine.

 

[PrinceofWands]

They do have those sobriety systems, but they are very expensive and not widely used. It sure as hell isn't going to come out my taxes to monitor these idiots. I'll donate a 9mm hollow point each year though, no questions asked.

Seriously, if there was a method that could ensure they would not drive without harming them, I would go for that. But there isn't, and I doubt if there will be (due to economic constraints, etc). Also, I've dealt with courts since I was 16 years old and NEVER seen a just verdict. I've seen nothing but corruption and lies and stupidity for 15 years. Granted, I came from a small town, and corruption is almost always more common in such places. Even so, I have no more faith, no more patience. I won't submit any longer to even the possibility of fallacy in important matters. I just don't have it in me anymore. 8-( Sucks, but it's their own fault for stripping all the good away from those of us who wanted to believe.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
They do have those sobriety systems, but they are very expensive and not widely used. It sure as hell isn't going to come out my taxes to monitor these idiots. I'll donate a 9mm hollow point each year though, no questions asked.

Seriously, if there was a method that could ensure they would not drive without harming them, I would go for that. But there isn't, and I doubt if there will be (due to economic constraints, etc). Also, I've dealt with courts since I was 16 years old and NEVER seen a just verdict. I've seen nothing but corruption and lies and stupidity for 15 years. Granted, I came from a small town, and corruption is almost always more common in such places. Even so, I have no more faith, no more patience. I won't submit any longer to even the possibility of fallacy in important matters. I just don't have it in me anymore. 8-( Sucks, but it's their own fault for stripping all the good away from those of us who wanted to believe.

What were you doing for the courts since you were 16? A majority of cases I participated in or saw were just. I would say 99.9% were fair and just. I believe the systems I am talking about are paid for by the offender. Since some of them say they cannot be without a car they are given the option of having one but they have to pay for the system and the monitoring.

Vigilantism like you advocate is more harmful to the system than you think. I would rank it slightly below corruption.

 

[PrinceofWands]

am talking about are paid for by the offender. Since some of them say they cannot be without a car they are given the option of having one but they have to pay for the system and the monitoring.

Completely acceptable. I would go for that in a heartbeat. I was speaking more of inclusion in all autos as a precautionary measure sort of thing, or license verification systems (think fifth element).

As to my involvement, it's LONG and complicated. I'm a tad busy at the moment, but I can respond at length later. Short version, I've been in a court about 20 times. It's sucked every time but one, and even that one wasn't all that great.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: ELP
Participating in something that knowingly can kill another person should be considered "intent"

Lets ban hunting, guns altogether, driving (even sober), the use of knives, swimming, etc...

The activity that they participated in WAS ALREADY AN ILLEGAL ACT and they KNOWINGLY Participated in it <<<SEE THE DIFFERENCE???

 

[djheater]

Not everyone dies.

 

[Freejack2]

Drunk drivers is a real sore spot for me too. I've been fortunate enough to not have to be put in the situation of stopping a friend driving drunk but if it ever comes to such a situation I will do whatever it takes to stop a friend from driving drunk. If I have to call the police on them, so be it. I'd rather they get in trouble than injure or kill someone.

 

[Ryan]

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey
i think the law is fine how it is. life is a risk, people die. sorry.

I agree. That is sig material.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: ELP
Participating in something that knowingly can kill another person should be considered "intent"

Lets ban hunting, guns altogether, driving (even sober), the use of knives, swimming, etc...

The activity that they participated in WAS ALREADY AN ILLEGAL ACT and they KNOWINGLY Participated in it <<<SEE THE DIFFERENCE???

You are still wrong. Sorry.

 

[Xionide]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey
i think the law is fine how it is. life is a risk, people die. sorry.

I agree.

Yaknow, after reading this thread, I was reminded that a few years back, some social scientists constructed an excellent test to determine mental maturity. It goes like this:
"A man's wife of many years is dying from an illness. A cure is available but the man is poor and cannot afford it. The man breaks into a pharmacy at night and steals the cure for his wife. Is what the man did right or wrong?"

i would do it and if you wouldnt to then your a farking looser

 

[RobCur]

Drinking is a very serious health/mental problem who needs to be controlled by alcoholic. Until it becomes a life and death matter do they change but that's almost too late! very stupid people with no common sense or responsibility! My father drinking problem lead to divorce and constant fighting between them two. Everytime I talk to him on the phone he would talk sh^t to me, things that you never say to someone you love. He is alway under the influence and he does it because he think it is cool to be drunk and f^cked up to point of living in his own fantasy world. I don't want to be like him, seriously life is no joke and we should be a responsible adult if we are to bring kids into this world.

Originally posted by: WalMart1564
My father got caught for drunk driving , then he resisted arrest, then the 2 cops beat him up , scarred his face knocked out a few teeth
he is 54

and i for one think GOOD

he quit drinking

perhaps if all cases were dealt with this way ?

 

[chrisjor]

Well..this is my United States of Whatever!!!!

 

[LeeTJ]

Originally posted by: Zugzwang152

Originally posted by: AnyMal
Yet another reason I support any drunk driving accidents that result in death to be treated as first degree murder cases, not involuntary manslaughter.

first degree murder is premeditated. drunk driving accidents are just that-accidents. people dont get drunk, planning on killing little girls later. Involuntary manslaughter is the highest penalty the law provides.

People may not plan on getting drunk, but once they are drunk and get behind a wheel, then it becomes more than just an accident.

the law needs modification. involuntary is not enough. it is a deliberate act when they get behind the wheel when drunk.

 

[chrisjor]

If you look at the reported statistics...I am sure more people have died from cell phone driving incidents and people messing with kids/pets/coffee than drunk driving has ever caused. But Jack Daniels accidents should be murder, while AT&T, Verizon, Starbucks, Playskool/Toys R Us accidents are accetable losses???? Drunk driving is and should be a crime....but hindered and/or unattentaive driving should be just as bad!!! Your snivelling baby in the back of your SUV is just as dangerous (if not more) than a drunk driver!!!