How bad would an Opteron 180 @ 2.4ghz bottleneck a HD4890?

[toyota]

Originally posted by: Schmide

Originally posted by: toyota
the op said Far Cry 2 and that has an excellent benchmark. also again the 4890 is NOT going to improve on anything above what a 4850 could do with his cpu. and also again his minimums will still be almost exactly the same as with the 8800gt. I ran enough benchmarks on my 2.6 X2 pc to know this. using the gtx260 in the 2.6 X2 pc delivered no better minimums than with the 4670 or 9600gt I used.

Again you ignore anything others say and return to the same argument.

what do you want to know then?? either ask something direct or prove me wrong.

 

[Schmide]

Yes in a later post, the OP did mention FC. Show me the L4d, cod4 and TF2 benchmarks using your method.

 

[toyota]

Originally posted by: Schmide
Yes in a later post, the OP did mention FC. Show me the L4d, cod4 and TF2 benchmarks using your method.

the OP said it in his second post which was the fourth post in the thread so no it was not really latter in the thread. see thats the stuff I am talking about..being quick to judge my intentions and try to make me look foolish while not really paying attention to the thread. more examples have been somebody saying I only used Crysis, somebody else saying I didnt even say what games I was benching and then another person saying I need to use AA even though I did in Far Cry 2. I also already linked to a L4D benchmark.

If you or anybody else want to criticize me fine but at least get the facts straight before doing so. I will test almost anything and help almost anybody if asked so stop trying to make me out to be a jerk because you(in general) cant back up your end of the argument.


the L4D benchmark was done with a gtx280 which is about equal to his 4890. it was at 1680 max settings with no AA. http://www.anandtech.com/bench/default.aspx?b=48

the ops 2.6 cpu....75 fps
an E8500............121 fps

so an E8500 can get over 60% better performance even at 1680. using common sense that shows that the op could certainly use a MUCH slower gpu than his 4890 and still get the same performance since there is clearly a massive cpu limitation. I am sure somebody will still argue with that too. also that doesnt even show the minimums which are likely pretty damn low on the 2.4 X2.

I dont have cod 4 but the difference in that game will not be that great. I ran benches back when I had the demo on the 2.6 X2 pc installed and it was a little over 30% according to fraps at 1280 max settings so probably about 25-30% gap between 2.4 X2 and E8500 at 1680x1050 with his faster 4890. also there were much more noticeable framerate dips with the 2.6 X2. still thats a 25-30% slower gpu that could have given him the same average.

How can I run good consistent bench for TF2 as those framerates can be all over the place? lol

 

[Schmide]

While I'm not disagreeing with the crysis benchmarks, my point was you put them forth as though they show the whole gaming picture. As I and others have argued, some game play considerations cannot be made on benchmarks alone. This was the general point of my first post.

My second, I was wondering if you would go forth and produce the other benchmarks? If you really want to make your point and consider it unarguable, you need to show more than one benchmark under the same conditions.

In COD4, I have a q6600 at 3.5ghz and crossfired 4870s, I run at 1920x1200 high 4x aa and get frames in the 160s. However, if I walk into a smoke the frames can drop into the mid 40s to 60s. The same slow down happens in L4D when you get puked on. Down clocking my CPU makes no changes in this. IMO if you game, you can never have enough graphics card.

I've also found that a higher graphics card (FPS) can make the difference in very non CPU bound games. I play ut2004 bombing run, when I added my second 4870 it became much easier to telefrag someone. I went from doing it once or twice a game to more than a few. There is another example in cod4 where you can only jump over this one wall if you have a great system as a round off error happens around 125fps.

 

[toyota]

Originally posted by: Schmide
While I'm not disagreeing with the crysis benchmarks, my point was you put them forth as though they show the whole gaming picture. As I and others have argued, some game play considerations cannot be made on benchmarks alone. This was the general point of my first post.

My second, I was wondering if you would go forth and produce the other benchmarks? If you really want to make your point and consider it unarguable, you need to show more than one benchmark under the same conditions.

In COD4, I have a q6600 at 3.5ghz and crossfired 4870s, I run at 1920x1200 high 4x aa and get frames in the 160s. However, if I walk into a smoke the frames can drop into the mid 40s to 60s. The same slow down happens in L4D when you get puked on. Down clocking my CPU makes no changes in this. IMO if you game, you can never have enough graphics card.

I've also found that a higher graphics card (FPS) can make the difference in very non CPU bound games. I play ut2004 bombing run, when I added my second 4870 it became much easier to telefrag someone. I went from doing it once or twice a game to more than a few. There is another example in cod4 where you can only jump over this one wall if you have a great system as a round off error happens around 125fps.

the reason I mainly use those games is because they have great benchmarking tools that can deliver fairly consistent results. I dont want to do a bench that cant be easily reproduced by someone else. also I didnt mind doing some benches for other games but apoppin kept commenting how he didnt care what I did so it would obviously be waste to people like him because he doesnt care how much proof I have or link too. he is only interested in what the op has to say not whether I prove there is a huge bottleneck or not.

 

[BrokenVisage]

Just got tracking information, looks like we'll have to wait until Monday before I can even install it, was hoping for a Friday delivery but it's coming from the other side of the country.

I OC'd my Opteron to 2.6ghz last night with Vcore a tad under 1.4, Memory at 166, HT at 4x and FSB at 220.. but it failed a Prime95 torture test in an hour, it did give me a good boost in 3dMark though. Then just to see what happened I tried going to 2.8ghz but my computer wouldn't POST. My CPU temps never get too high either, like I said before I think this CPU is just a bad overclocker (doesn't help that I'm not a pro at it either).

Any suggestions on how to tweak my current setup or what I should be looking for as an upgrade are appreciated.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: BrokenVisage
Just got tracking information, looks like we'll have to wait until Monday before I can even install it, was hoping for a Friday delivery but it's coming from the other side of the country.

I OC'd my Opteron to 2.6ghz last night with Vcore a tad under 1.4, Memory at 166, HT at 4x and FSB at 220.. but it failed a Prime95 torture test in an hour, it did give me a good boost in 3dMark though. Then just to see what happened I tried going to 2.8ghz but my computer wouldn't POST. My CPU temps never get too high either, like I said before I think this CPU is just a bad overclocker (doesn't help that I'm not a pro at it either).

Any suggestions on how to tweak my current setup or what I should be looking for as an upgrade are appreciated.

forget 3DMark06 [except as a novelty] and run some game benchmarks on your current system
- when you get your new card, run the SAME benchmarks again at the SAME setting and report back

THEN - completely MAX out the details and add 4xAA/16xAF and report back
--we can help you with the rest of your upgrade if you like

i am building a budget AMD system - my first - to attempt to take on my Intel PC
New AMD build - *budget* high performance gamer for 19x12

i should have the HW this week - or like you - early next week

EDIT:

it sounds like your CPU is CLOSE to stable .. perhaps a few tweaks will allow you to keep 2.6GHz as an OC - perhaps post your issues in CPU forum and the guys there can help you to stabilize it

 

[MagickMan]

Agreed. A slight bump in voltage will stabilize that, keep going!

 

[Schmide]

Originally posted by: toyota
the reason I mainly use those games is because they have great benchmarking tools that can deliver fairly consistent results. I dont want to do a bench that cant be easily reproduced by someone else. also I didnt mind doing some benches for other games but apoppin kept commenting how he didnt care what I did so it would obviously be waste to people like him because he doesnt care how much proof I have or link too. he is only interested in what the op has to say not whether I prove there is a huge bottleneck or not.

Nice edit. (5 paragraphs + benches?)

I guess the UT3 benches you produced might not back up your argument. The unreal engine scales almost equally in both CPU and GPU, and generally adjusts itself to work well with lesser hardware. Too bad they consolified the game to suckitude.

You could equally argue that a 512mb card would bottleneck GTA4, does that prove that no one should ever mix a 512mb card with a powerful CPU?

Again, above, you characterize this bottleneck as omnipresent. Will the lesser CPU hold a system back? Yes. Could a greater CPU improve things? Duh. Are there games where things are less unbalanced? More than likely.

 

[toyota]

Originally posted by: Schmide

Originally posted by: toyota
the reason I mainly use those games is because they have great benchmarking tools that can deliver fairly consistent results. I dont want to do a bench that cant be easily reproduced by someone else. also I didnt mind doing some benches for other games but apoppin kept commenting how he didnt care what I did so it would obviously be waste to people like him because he doesnt care how much proof I have or link too. he is only interested in what the op has to say not whether I prove there is a huge bottleneck or not.

Nice edit. (5 paragraphs + benches?)

I guess the UT3 benches you produced might not back up your argument. The unreal engine scales almost equally in both CPU and GPU, and generally adjusts itself to work well with lesser hardware. Too bad they consolified the game to suckitude.

You could equally argue that a 512mb card would bottleneck GTA4, does that prove that no one should ever mix a 512mb card with a powerful CPU?

Again, above, you characterize this bottleneck as omnipresent. Will the lesser CPU hold a system back? Yes. Could a greater CPU improve things? Duh. Are there games where things are less unbalanced? More than likely.

more attitude? I took them out because they had nothing to do with the gtx260 becnhies from earlier and I figured no one saw them so early in the morning anyway. I also figured all it would do is start more arguments from the usual suspects. if you saw them this morning and didnt have anything to say then please explain why you give a crap now. do you really want to see them again? I doubt it but its just another way for you to try and discredit me by making a reply about it. if you really want them then I will re post them just for you so let me know...

 

[Schmide]

Originally posted by: toyota
more attitude? I took them out because they had nothing to do with the gtx260 becnhies from earlier and it was likely no one saw them anyway. I figured all it would do is start more arguments from the usual suspects. do you really want to see them again? I doubt it but its just another way for you to stir up crap. if you really want them then I will PM you with them or post them right here in the thread if you so desire...

If you make a major edit that changes your position, more than just semantic edits, it's usually courteous to give a reason for the change.

I think my attitude is fair and generally respectful. I concede many points and argue others. I see many sides to a broad range of issues. If you think I'm stirring up crap, ehh. I guess. If I have to.

I have acknowledged your positions and given some constructive criticism where they may be lacking. If you find that hostile, I'm sorry.

 

[toyota]

Originally posted by: Schmide

Originally posted by: toyota
more attitude? I took them out because they had nothing to do with the gtx260 becnhies from earlier and it was likely no one saw them anyway. I figured all it would do is start more arguments from the usual suspects. do you really want to see them again? I doubt it but its just another way for you to stir up crap. if you really want them then I will PM you with them or post them right here in the thread if you so desire...

If you make a major edit that changes your position, more than just semantic edits, it's usually courteous to give a reason for the change.

I think my attitude is fair and generally respectful. I concede many points and argue others. I see many sides to a broad range of issues. If you think I'm stirring up crap, ehh. I guess. If I have to.

I have acknowledged your positions and given some constructive criticism where they may be lacking. If you find that hostile, I'm sorry.

well now you know why I removed them plus you never replied to it anyway. I will repost them tonight if you like.

 

[Schmide]

Originally posted by: toyota
well now you know why I removed them plus you never replied to it anyway. I will repost them tonight if you like.

I will admit it was late at night and it was a lot of information to process. As I went to bed I contemplated that the UT3 engine may be such a well balanced engine that actually works well with CPU starved systems. The game was such a let down, I have all but forgotten it.

If you think they help provide some good diversity to the issue, I would say sure.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: SlowSpyder
I think every Opty 165 - 185 can probably hit 2.6-2.7GHz.

And... you would be wrong. Just like claiming that "every" E2xxx can OC to 3.2.

My Opty 165 only hits 2.53Ghz, no matter what I do. And I'm an experienced OCer.

Edit: I'm not claiming that YOU claimed that every E2xxx can hit 3.2, just that I seen that bandied about at times.

 

[SunSamurai]

Originally posted by: Spike
I think the whole concept of worring about being bottlenecked is quite silly. If you buy a 4890 you will see quite an improvement from your current 8800GT, period. Yes, your improvement would be much better with a faster CPU but no other single purchase will get you a larger gaming performance increase than a new GPU.

If you current card is holding you back and you can only afford one item then get this card. If your games are playing fine right now, but you have the upgrade itch, I would say hurry up and wait, waiting will almost always bring you lower prices for better performance. Even with an "ancient" opteron in there you will still be able to game quite well though you will have to mind certain game settings. I still game quite regularly on my Opty 165 @ 2.52 using a 9600GSO and it performs quite well.

Good luck!

This post is retarded.

Even the 8800GT is bottlenecked by the CPU. You will get around 1/3rd the preformance jump you would normally get not bottlenecked. Ive upgraded GPUs 3 times on my CPU, I understand how bottlenecking works. It gets more pronounced the further generations you get from the CPU.

The funny thing is about idiots like I quoted, is they dont get the fact that if you spent the money to actually upgrade your CPU/Mobo/RAM with the money you would of bought a new GPU with, you will see a -much- greater fps boost with the same freak'n card, because you're not only letting the GPU do its full potential, youre also giving the whole system an upgrade.

 

[Schmide]

Originally posted by: aeternitas

Originally posted by: Spike
I think the whole concept of worring about being bottlenecked is quite silly. If you buy a 4890 you will see quite an improvement from your current 8800GT, period. Yes, your improvement would be much better with a faster CPU but no other single purchase will get you a larger gaming performance increase than a new GPU.

If you current card is holding you back and you can only afford one item then get this card. If your games are playing fine right now, but you have the upgrade itch, I would say hurry up and wait, waiting will almost always bring you lower prices for better performance. Even with an "ancient" opteron in there you will still be able to game quite well though you will have to mind certain game settings. I still game quite regularly on my Opty 165 @ 2.52 using a 9600GSO and it performs quite well.

Good luck!

This post is retarded.

Even the 8800GT is bottlenecked by the CPU. You will get around 1/3rd the preformance jump you would normally get not bottlenecked. Ive upgraded GPUs 3 times on my CPU, I understand how bottlenecking works. It gets more pronounced the further generations you get from the CPU.

The funny thing is about idiots like I quoted, is they dont get the fact that if you spent the money to actually upgrade your CPU/Mobo/RAM with the money you would of bought a new GPU with, you will see a -much- greater fps boost with the same freak'n card, because you're not only letting the GPU do its full potential, youre also giving the whole system an upgrade.

Real constructive there? Anymore insults?

The poster you quoted was much more rational than you are. Even going as far as to explain the trade-offs.

Calm down and be cool and don't be a dick.

 

[tommy2q]

where is op to let us know some benchmark numbers?

 

[toyota]

Originally posted by: tommy2q
where is op to let us know some benchmark numbers?

hopefully he will come back and be honest about the results. I doubt he benchmarked anything before or after though so we are likely to get wow its faster placebo effect. I doubt he really wants to concentrate on the fact that most of its performance advantage over the 8800gt will go right down the drain in reality.

 

[tommy2q]

hopefully i can find out if i should get a better gpu or build a new system...

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: tommy2q
hopefully i can find out if i should get a better gpu or build a new system...

7800GT

can go either way

you could buy a 4850/4770 for pretty cheap now and then reuse it in a new build

it depends what you want for gaming now and in the future and how much you have to spend

 

[toyota]

Originally posted by: tommy2q
hopefully i can find out if i should get a better gpu or build a new system...

coming from a card as slow as the 7800gt you would get a big boost with any modern mid range card. its sad but even a lowly 8600gt would be faster than the old 7800gt. you could always get a 9800gt, 4830, 4770, or 4850 since they are so cheap now and then just build a new pc in six months or so. of course if you have the money now then a new pc is the way I would go.

 

[superunknown98]

I will also vote for "there will be minimal performance increase with a 4890". I had a Athlon X2 3800 at 2.5Ghz with a 4850 512mb. GTA 4 ran like crap untill the 3rd patch and even then it was just barely acceptable. It was the whole reason I upgraded to Phenom II X3 720, and did it ever make a difference. The games was smooth as butter after that.

However I will admit that certain games can be less cpu dependant. I never had a problem playing bioshock with my old Ati 1900gt and it played just as smooth with the 4850. Is the 4850 faster with my X3 720? Yes it is.

 

[iandh]

The most I would spend on upgrading that system is in the $100 range, 9800GT, 4770, etc.

I've just had MUCH better luck with 3-4 cores @ 3Ghz+ on Phenom II/Core2 or better when using high end cards.

I purchased a 4870 for my backup rig (939 X2 3800+ @ 2.7Ghz) and @ 1680 some games were still choppy at max details. I ended up turning that rig into an HTPC and buying a cheapo E7200 combo (my main rig runs a 720BE).