How bad are SecuRom and newer DRM schemes in games?

[Barfo]

I've been boycotting games with difficult to bypass DRM for the past 1.5 years since Starforce destroyed a DVD burner for me (also because my trusty 7900GT would feel humiliated trying to run newer games), and the ones I bought I would install, download a no cd hack and forget about the disc.

So now that I'm building a new comp with an HD 4850 I want to play all the good games I've missed, I was wondering if I can go about my old ways, buying the game and getting a no cd to run it hassle free or do I have to put up with this nasty new DRM, maybe living in fear of losing my optical drive, and is it even worth it? I hate software that does all sort of thing in the background without telling me and phoning home every few days.

I was so hoping to play GTA4 in the PC since I don't own any consoles ;

thoughts?

 

[TheVrolok]

1) I've had 0 problems to date with any of the "evil evil DRM" games that have come out.
2) Yes, if you want to, go ahead and grab a no-cd/crack and you'll be fine.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Mass Effect's securerom has limited activations (currently 5) but you get to play without needing the DVD in the drive. No no-CD crack needed.

I think Fallout uses a different version that just does a DVD check, so you do need to keep the DVD in the drive.

The really old securerom in KOTOR1 didn't play nice with Vista for me, but their customer service supplied me with a patched version of the exe file that fixed it.

Besides that I haven't had any problems with it.

 

[ZzZGuy]

Your best bet is to google "[insert game name] DRM", but wait a week or two after a new game comes out as all the problems will have popped up by then and you can find more reliable reviews. Wikipedia is also a good source of info. I myself haven't had any major problems with DRM screwing with my computer beyond slowing it down over time (I format regularly anyway), but they can create security holes that hackers can use. My biggest beef is the limitations on installs as I can burn through them with ease (laptop + pc + upgrades + formatting) so I never buy those games and thus don't have that problem. I do not like being treated like a pirate and receiving a inferior product compared to what I can get from a torrent for free so I speak with my wallet. Also be aware that Steam has now started including extra DRM on top of their own (the Steam client itself) for games such as Securom and TAGS with install limits and online activation, in the case of X3: Terran conflict the Steam version has MORE DRM restrictions vs the DVD version.

Bioshock is what broke the camels back for me when I found it it has a 3 install limit which I learned about after I bought and installed it, so out of protest I gave my [legal] copy to my friend so he could install and play it without buying the game. I also bought and installed STALKER: Clear Sky and installed it because I got it on release day and there wasn't much news about it's DRM at the time, if I had waited a week I would have known not to buy it (5 install limit).



Also GTA 4 is coming out sometime soon for the PC.

-Edit- Also game makers do not include in any documentation that comes with the game on what DRM programs are installed and what may cause said programs to prevent your game from working.

 

[irishScott]

I will never buy a game with an install limit.

 

[rstove02]

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
I think Fallout uses a different version that just does a DVD check, so you do need to keep the DVD in the drive.

It does have a DVD check until you modify the created game shortcut to actually point to Fallout3.exe instead of the other .exe in your Fallout3 install folder. After that wave DVD checks goodbye.

 

[mindcycle]

You'll probably want to check out this thread: http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2244926&enterthread=y

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: TheVrolok
1) I've had 0 problems to date with any of the "evil evil DRM" games that have come out.

Same. I hear all of these horror stories but have yet to experience any of them or know anyone personally that has had any of these problems.

 

[Bateluer]

Originally posted by: irishScott
I will never buy a game with an install limit.

I bought one, Mass Effect, a mediocre FPS with RPG-lite skillss, far below Bioware's usual quality. I won't buy another. And I intended to buy Red Alert 3 and Crysis Warhead, but after their DRM became public, even in the Steam versions, I decided not to waste my money.

 

[Regs]

No horror stories, but some games are a PITA trying to get to run after running the excutable. *Double click* Nothing. *Double Click* Nothing. Mean while I have 2 or so instances of a game running in the background taking up PC resources and the game hasn't even launched properly yet.

 

[mindcycle]

I bought Mass Effect and couldn't play it due to constant crashing. Tech support was no help at all. I finally found a few people experiencing the same issue on one of the bioware forums. The best I could figure was it was a SecuROM conflict. Sucky thing is I couldn't find a way around it, so I thought I would sell it, but who's going to want to buy a game with 1 install left. I can still enjoy the graphics on the case, but not that actual game.. haha

It's true that not many people run into problems with the current activation/limited install based protection schemes, but that doesn't make them an ideal solution. IMO harsher DRM just leads to more pirated copies and less people interested in the PC gaming platform. It's up to us to vote with our wallet and not buy games with ridiculous DRM schemes. It's the only thing the publishers will listen to.

 

[thilanliyan]

Starforce was a b!tch and very effective initially. I'm glad it's not used...you can hear DVD drives struggling trying to read the disc.

 

[hans030390]

I think it's pretty sad that you are worried about having to possibly take 10-20 seconds to put a game in the DVD drive.

And honestly, being worried about losing a DVD drive is pretty silly as well. I've never heard of anyone having problems with that, no matter what sort of DRM was used.

But, to answer your question, you can still probably get a no-DVD crack that works. I have one right now for Far Cry 2 (only because someone else is currently using the actual disc).

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Those of you who are tired of DRM BS should...support Stardock and its games which are DRM free. Support Galactic Civilizations II and the excellent Sins of a Solar Empire.

 

[Mem]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: TheVrolok
1) I've had 0 problems to date with any of the "evil evil DRM" games that have come out.

Same. I hear all of these horror stories but have yet to experience any of them or know anyone personally that has had any of these problems.

Same,I have played them all in Vista from KOTOR to Gothic 3,Mass Effect etc..
Starforce to TAGES and have yet to have any issues.


DRM is really no big deal ,way overblown as usual.

 

[Bateluer]

Originally posted by: Mem


DRM is really no big deal ,way overblown as usual.

I'm sorry for not wanting to surrender control of my PC to EA/UbiSoft/Activision/etc. The backlash would be different if there was a pop up notice prior to the game install that stated 'This program requires SecuRom to authenticate. This software will install virtual device drivers that have been linked to security vulnerabilities, system instability, hardware failure, and corporate spying. Do you wish to install them now?'. Entirely true, and it'd be devastating to their sales, and rightly so.

 

[lxskllr]

I accept DRM for MS Windows, because if I have a problem, I can call a toll free number, and it'll be fixed in a matter of minutes. When my $60 copy of Bioshock wouldn't reinstall, I had to email Securom, and wait 1.5 days until I could play my game.

That won't happen again. Either the publishers will use a working DRM scheme, or I'll skip their titles, and play my old games over and over.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: TheVrolok
1) I've had 0 problems to date with any of the "evil evil DRM" games that have come out.

Same, but I acknowledge the possibility of other legit users having issues.

 

[mindcycle]

It's great that most of you don't sell your games, neither do I for the most part. But it's good to know that I still have that option. If you're ok with more and more rights being taken away from consumers, then that's fine, but i'm not cool with that. If we stand back and do nothing then our rights will slowly disappear. Publishers don't care about consumer rights, they care about maximizing profits. Today it's getting rid of the used market, tomorrow it will be non-skipable ads for pepsi, the next day will be $80 games that need finger print authorization and come with 1 install. The last one's a little extreme I know.. but the point remains.

 

[Mem]

Originally posted by: Bateluer

Originally posted by: Mem


DRM is really no big deal ,way overblown as usual.

I'm sorry for not wanting to surrender control of my PC to EA/UbiSoft/Activision/etc. The backlash would be different if there was a pop up notice prior to the game install that stated 'This program requires SecuRom to authenticate. This software will install virtual device drivers that have been linked to security vulnerabilities, system instability, hardware failure, and corporate spying. Do you wish to install them now?'. Entirely true, and it'd be devastating to their sales, and rightly so.

Last time I checked I had control over my PC,as to security its still secure as usual,again DRM is way overblown,you got a beef with DRM take it up with all those pirates out there since you got them to thank for DRM ,you cant blame game companies/ developers for taking action and protecting their interests,a lot of hard work and time is put into their final product.

 

[Maximilian]

All DRM is bad! It takes away from consumer rights and causes problems later down the line. I had to download simcity 4 because my disks dont frickin work anymore, apparently its a DRM problem. Newer DRM sometimes even comes with limited activations, what a bunch of BS! The publishers argue you can get your activation back by uninstalling the game, some not very forward thinking people think "oh that sounds fair!" Well what if that catches on? Do you really want to sit and uninstall your entire modern game collection before a format/upgrade/whatever? You can also bet there wont be an easy way to do that either, it will probably be different for games from each publisher and they each have their own stupid tool to recover an activation, thats the future if DRM takes hold, which it wont hopefully because people would rather just pirate the game than go through all that crap.

 

[mindcycle]

Originally posted by: Mem

Last time I checked I had control over my PC,as to security its still secure as usual,again DRM is way overblown,you got a beef with DRM take it up with all those pirates out there since you got them to thank for DRM ,you cant blame game companies/ developers for taking action and protecting their interests,a lot of hard work and time is put into their final product.

If DRM did work to prevent piracy, then I would agree with you. But it doesn't and that's been proven time and time again. Activation/install limit DRM is in place to hinder the used market. Developers do deserve compensation for their hard work, I agree 100%. It's not the developers that are putting SecuROM on game discs though, it's the publishers.

The best DRM analogy is a flawed comparison that John Riccitiello (CEO of EA) said in an interview. He compared the activation based SecuROM they are including with games to using a key to get into your house. Funny thing is he forgot to mention one key factor. Using a key to get into your house protects you, so there is a real tangible benefit. SecuROM on the other hand protects EA, with no tangible benefit to you as a consumer. That's why I think it's such a great analogy since it's pretty much sums up DRM.

 

[Mem]

Originally posted by: mindcycle

Originally posted by: Mem

Last time I checked I had control over my PC,as to security its still secure as usual,again DRM is way overblown,you got a beef with DRM take it up with all those pirates out there since you got them to thank for DRM ,you cant blame game companies/ developers for taking action and protecting their interests,a lot of hard work and time is put into their final product.

If DRM did work to prevent piracy, then I would agree with you. But it doesn't and that's been proven time and time again. Activation/install limit DRM is in place to hinder the used market. Developers do deserve compensation for their hard work, I agree 100%. It's not the developers that are putting SecuROM on game discs though, it's the publishers.

The best DRM analogy is a flawed comparison that John Riccitiello (CEO of EA) said in an interview. He compared the activation based SecuROM they are including with games to using a key to get into your house. Funny thing is he forgot to mention one key factor. Using a key to get into your house protects you, so there is a real tangible benefit. SecuROM on the other hand protects EA, with no tangible benefit to you as a consumer. That's why I think it's such a great analogy since it's pretty much sums up DRM.

Fact is there is no perfect solution,if there was no piracy then DRM would not be needed,sure its not effective and piracy will always be around regardless of what software companies try to do,end of the day you can't expect them to give into illegal piracy,software companies will do what they have too,why make it easy for piracy?

End of the day its we gamers that suffer,I don't think we'll ever see a solution to these problems between software companies and piracy.

 

[nismotigerwvu]

I understand your statement about not giving in to pirates, but even these nasty DRM schemes do nothing to deter piracy.
They are actually cutting into the profits of the game by imposing extra expenses (DRM systems aren't free) while providing no boost in sales whatsoever.
The old as dirt method of CD-Keys deter the casual pirates to the same degree as the big brother methods and both are just as easily defeated by the major pirates.
Paying customers and the game companies themselves lose with the pirates taking no hit whatsoever.

 

[LumbergTech]

DRM is terrible...

i just dont understand how some people can defend it

you do realize that EVERY SINGLE HIGH PROFILE GAME is cracked on day1 pretty much.....(for single player) and a cd-key..the oldest form of anti-piracy, is what makes it so that those people cant get connected to the company servers..
they are deterring piracy in no way shape or form