How bad are Nvidia in the shi...

[clarkey01]

Hey guys


I recently had my 8800 GTS 640 overheating (91C load) and was getting red lines in BF 2.

I am still waiting for my 512 GTS replacement from the vendor.


I was reading on the inquirer about all there 65 & 55nm parts being in some way defective (yes I know there known for there spin) but it seems to be backed up?

Article

 

[vhx]

Or is all just BS?

I was reading on the inquirer

You answered your own question.

 

[Zstream]

Some of it is not false, Nvidia paid out 200m for the mobile GPU parts due to faulty engineering . The GPU parts are made from the same process if all the articles are correct.

 

[AmberClad]

Unless you were turning your desktop on and off dozens of times a day, I don't see how your problems would be related to what the article is describing. If you take the time to read it all (yes, I realize it's extremely long-winded, even for him), he explains that it's a problem that primarily exhibits itself with notebook GPUs because they go through many more power cyclings than a desktop does.

 

[ronnn]

So where did he get all this info? Seems like some oem is pissed. This could be very expensive for nvidia as no one will want the old stock with the problems fixed with new releases.

 

[clarkey01]

Originally posted by: AmberClad
Unless you were turning your desktop on and off dozens of times a day, I don't see how your problems would be related to what the article is describing. If you take the time to read it all (yes, I realize it's extremely long-winded, even for him), he explains that it's a problem that primarily exhibits itself with notebook GPUs because they go through many more power cyclings than a desktop does.

yeah heat cycles

I switch my pc on and off maybe 3 times a day.

 

[Ares202]

Nvidia have seen better times thats for sure

we will see how badly Nvidia has actually done when it releases its financial figures for this quarter

 

[TridenT]

Originally posted by: vhx

Or is all just BS?

I was reading on the inquirer

You answered your own question.

THIS

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: vhx

Or is all just BS?

I was reading on the inquirer

You answered your own question.

:laugh:

 

[zephyrprime]

Originally posted by: AmberClad
Unless you were turning your desktop on and off dozens of times a day, I don't see how your problems would be related to what the article is describing. If you take the time to read it all (yes, I realize it's extremely long-winded, even for him), he explains that it's a problem that primarily exhibits itself with notebook GPUs because they go through many more power cyclings than a desktop does.

You're misunderstanding the article. Heat cycling occurs from more than just turning the computer on an off. Changing workloads cause rapid fluctuations of heat and load to the different parts of any chip.

 

[PowerRanger]

Wow I must've been in a cave but this is news to me...sucks because my current laptop (purchased only a few months back) has the 8600M GT.

 

[MarcVenice]

Hmmm, how long of a warranty does asus offer ? 1 year? 3 years? I hope 3 years, and if so, I hope my 8800gts 320mb dies soon, rly soon, so I can upgrade

 

[Dkcode]

We have been running Dell D630's and 830's for around a year, all with Quadro 135M and had no problems related to video. Due to the industry we are in, these laptops take a lot of hammer.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: TridenTBoy3555

Originally posted by: vhx

Or is all just BS?

I was reading on the inquirer

You answered your own question.

THIS

:thumbsup:

 

[WelshBloke]

Originally posted by: clarkey01

Originally posted by: AmberClad
Unless you were turning your desktop on and off dozens of times a day, I don't see how your problems would be related to what the article is describing. If you take the time to read it all (yes, I realize it's extremely long-winded, even for him), he explains that it's a problem that primarily exhibits itself with notebook GPUs because they go through many more power cyclings than a desktop does.

yeah heat cycles

I switch my pc on and off maybe 3 times a day.

Actually this worries me.

My computer is set to sleep after 5 mins inactivity so it powers up and down frequently.

Saying that I've not had any problems yet and I've got a lifetime warranty on my vid card but still...

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: WelshBloke

Originally posted by: clarkey01

Originally posted by: AmberClad
Unless you were turning your desktop on and off dozens of times a day, I don't see how your problems would be related to what the article is describing. If you take the time to read it all (yes, I realize it's extremely long-winded, even for him), he explains that it's a problem that primarily exhibits itself with notebook GPUs because they go through many more power cyclings than a desktop does.

yeah heat cycles

I switch my pc on and off maybe 3 times a day.

Actually this worries me.

My computer is set to sleep after 5 mins inactivity so it powers up and down frequently.

Saying that I've not had any problems yet and I've got a lifetime warranty on my vid card but still...

If anything in your PC breaks, it's under warranty, so don't baby it. If something breaks it will be fixed, just like any other component going bad in your system. LCD screen, keyboard, mainboard etc.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
Hmmm, how long of a warranty does asus offer ? 1 year? 3 years? I hope 3 years, and if so, I hope my 8800gts 320mb dies soon, rly soon, so I can upgrade

if you buy something with a premium credit card - like a "gold" card, you automatically get an extra year with most HW purchases; it saved my butt with a Dell Notebook that crapped out on day 366 [or so].

the way to describe this situation for Nvidia is uncomfortable but not permanent. If they want higher premiums forever, they can ask their insurance to cover it; they are probably insured for this kind of failure to $1B. Even without insurance, they will no doubt get TSMC to share part of their costs [thru making future deals, price concessions, etc. - as TSMC appeared to share the responsibility for part of the f-up with Nvidia; like Nvidia got their partners to do with the notebooks and split the cost of repair. And you can be sure not many of these products will really fail so that the end user actually returns them for replacement. Only some - Nvidia won't say the percentage, of course - of the GPUs exhibit this issue. Even not all of them will fail for light and moderate users.

So ,, no matter WHAT charlie says .. ignore it .. this is the best he can ever hope for - short of a meteor impacting there, in santa clara
:Q

 

[ArchAngel777]

I don't really invest in warranties anymore... I don't think I have purchased an extended warranty in about 10 years now. I am sure at some point it really pays off, but I really don't factor in a warranty into my purchase decision. My opinion is that if the warranty is advised, the product isn't worth the purchase. Hey, not always true, I realize that, but it is my thought process on it. That said, I feel for those who may be affected by the G80 notebook cards. That isn't so easily dismissable like a desktop card would be.

 

[rjc]

Originally posted by: apoppin
Even without insurance, they will no doubt get TSMC to share part of their costs [thru making future deals, price concessions, etc. - as TSMC appeared to share the responsibility for part of the f-up with Nvidia; like Nvidia got their partners to do with the notebooks and split the cost of repair.

Do you have any support that TSMC was at fault? All accounts so far indicate that it was a design fault with the G84/G86 and G92 chips. TSMC manufactured just what they were contracted to manufacture.

Dell, HP et al are likely absorbing some of the costs cause the laptops they built often had inadeqate ventilation and thus share some liability. But they are also likely claiming the bulk of the $200m set aside by nvidia.

So ,, no matter WHAT charlie says .. ignore it .. this is the best he can ever hope for - short of a meteor impacting there, in santa clara

Admittedly his writing style is terrible, readers often miss the point of the article cause of his "flourishes".

Still in essence the core of what he is writing looks reasonably correct. ie some more info:
http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/39045/135/
http://www.consumeraffairs.com...04/2008/08/nvidia.html

I was very disappointed at the latest gaming laptop review on the front page recently. The laptops being tested all contain chips which fall under the above shadow but barely a token amount was paid investigating temperature and stability of the machines. Its surely not that hard to run rivatuner or hwmonitor while runnign some kind of graphic loop.

ie If the chip failure rate is 15% then these sli laptops will have a failure rate of 1 - (0.85)^2 = 27.75%, almost 3 in 10

 

[apoppin]

Yes, Nvidia initially blamed TSMC

you can speculate till you turn blue, but i fear we will never know for sure and Nvidia will take care of whatever is *presented to it* for warranty service - using its resources and that of its partners

FACT: Charlie does have an axe to grind with Nvidia and he disses them at every opportunity. Of course, Nvidia was pretty mean to charlie

 

[evolucion8]

In the Inquirer, Charlie explained the material used and were the melting is ocurring on the chip, I do not think that TSCM has any fault about it, after all, nVidia is the one who choses the ingredientes, and the TSCM is the one who bakes them, yummy, cupcakes!!

 

[rjc]

Originally posted by: apoppin
Yes, Nvidia initially blamed TSMC

Yes saw some references in the original rumors about blaming "suppliers", but that theory seems to have been discarded some time ago. The nvidia financial statements would say something like "we are pursuing restitution with suppliers/partners" instead they say stuff like "we are trying to claim against our insurance".

On the other hand the TSMC financial statements look real good, increasing business, good margins no caveats let alone charges for faulty or potentially faulty products. The only one they have listed is something like "the failure of one of one or more our customers to continue to place the same level of orders"

you can speculate till you turn blue,

Speculation? Evidence is showing up at present in the financial statements, the notices by oems like hp and dell. The fixes so far look like efforts to get the product failures outside of the warranty period.

but i fear we will never know for sure and Nvidia will take care of whatever is *presented to it* for warranty service - using its resources and that of its partners

Nvidia is a company not a person or a family. They have so far done legally the minimum amount possible. At present they have not even publicly admitted which SKUs are at fault, hardly taking "care of" anyone.

FACT: Charlie does have an axe to grind with Nvidia and he disses them at every opportunity. Of course, Nvidia was pretty mean to charlie

Half the thread is ad hominen attacks against him. I guess that is a much easier form of argument than investigating the issues that are being raised.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: evolucion8
In the Inquirer, Charlie explained the material used and were the melting is ocurring on the chip, I do not think that TSCM has any fault about it, after all, nVidia is the one who choses the ingredientes, and the TSCM is the one who bakes them, yummy, cupcakes!!

actually it doesn't matter what you and charlie think

TSMC may bear a responsibility in this as indicated by Nvidia almost completely blaming them for it initially. They may have been asked to change the materials. Nvidia never backed down either from accusing TSMC as being a partner in the manufacturing misjudgement issues, but said they are not pursuing it .. for now.

Half the thread is ad hominen attacks against him. I guess that is a much easier form of argument than investigating the issues that are being raised.

Are you part of their staff? You write like they do. i can certainly also see AMD behind the new Nvidia Smear campaign. Highroad was never "outed" like Focus Group


and it doesn't matter - unless Nvidia does not do the "right thing'
- i think they will have to

 

[ronnn]

Amd? Why would they have that information? Much more likely a major oem like Dell trying to get better support.

Or this may be good old fashioned good consumer journalism.

Or poor journalism and totally inaccurate.

Amd has taken enough bad press, besides being blamed for this.

This problem will be a hit to both companies, as people buying laptops will not want to risk their investment with a vid card. Many people hope for longer than the warranty period.

 

[apoppin]

no .. i don't think so .. not Dell, they agreed to share this quietly

you're right probably *not* AMD .. i wasn't thinking .. Intel stands most to gain .. and i see beyond "consumer journalism" to something deeper and anti-Nvidia .. probably my instincts

here's why i am not thinking:
i am gettin FPS in FEAR that tops around 400 and bottoms at 50 - with Soft shadows and everything maxed at 19x12 with X2 and my old CPU